Deciding between programs

[manofthehoff]

For all of us with multiple acceptances, now we're coming to the tough decisions between equally tempting programs. Does anyone have any advice on what to ask POIs and current graduate students to help narrow down our choices? I also have a few visits coming up and am trying to plan how best to use these opportunities to decide which program is the best fit for me. What has been helpful to you so far?

[simmel-ite]

First time poster, but I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to offers/visits. Also excited to learn more from others here. 

For me, I've found it helpful when talking to professors to ask about their personal philosophy to advising grad students and their department's philosophy. It's been really helpful to understand if they have an apprenticeship model or not, and Professors have been pretty forthcoming (e.g., Assistants and Associates are great and supportive, etc). 

I've also asked about their research and methods, which has helped me think through intellectual fit. 

I've also been doing research on placement, and the types of projects students are working on. I plan to learn more about this on visits as well. I'm also interested to learn more about publishing and getting into research right away, so excited to learn more there. When I applied to masters programs (which I know is totally different) that helped me choose between programs that I thought I loved, and my own goals. So I'm thinking through those at this stage. 

Also, this is about interviews, but I found the questions to ask page helpful: https://www.training.nih.gov/_assets/Slides-12_13_2010

[xyz234]

It's counter-intuitive, but the number one mistake I've made when talking to professors from programs I've been accepted to is getting too detail-oriented. I want to know the specifics of each program of course, but my best experiences have been just having a conversation without as many pointed questions. These conversations often end up answering my questions anyway, and in going in a roundabout way give me more insight into the professors' philosophies and the overall vibe of the department.

The advice I'm trying to give myself is that I've already been accepted multiple places and to just relax and have a normal conversation.

[KevinJHa]

4 minutes ago, xyz234 said:

It's counter-intuitive, but the number one mistake I've made when talking to professors from programs I've been accepted to is getting too detail-oriented. I want to know the specifics of each program of course, but my best experiences have been just having a conversation without as many pointed questions. These conversations often end up answering my questions anyway, and in going in a roundabout way give me more insight into the professors' philosophies and the overall vibe of the department.

The advice I'm trying to give myself is that I've already been accepted multiple places and to just relax and have a normal conversation.

That's very helpful thank you.

[pinoysoc]

Not to sound sour, but at the end of the day, what was your first choice? You applied to all these schools for a specific reason (as you have listed these on your SOP). 

[Madelene]

I don't have multiple acceptances, but I think it's going to come down to how supportive the department feels. You're going to be with them for a while and I'd much rather take a lower ranked program or a program that doesn't fit up *exactly* with my research interests if it feels like they'll see me through the degree and support me.

[abenz]

I think that location needs to be an important consideration too! You’ll be living in a city for six or seven years. It makes such a different to your quality of life (and quality of work) if you can love where you live too.

[manofthehoff]

Thanks everyone! Very helpful advice.

[qeta]

I only have one acceptance, but if it comes down choosing between a couple of schools, I will first and foremost be looking at how supportive the department and my potential supervisor are. I did my MA at a horrible department with a horribly sexist and classist DGS. It made finishing coursework, getting funding (I could only apply to fellowships that didn't need a nomination from the department), and just carrying on with life incredibly difficult.

I also care about fellowship opportunities as I absolutely want extra money for language training, fieldwork, conference attendance, or methods training. I did quite a bit of these things, except for language training, for my MA. They were incredibly rewarding and the network of students and scholars I met through these have been invaluable.

I also only applied to places where I wouldn't be scared to live as a racialized woman with a Muslim last name. I am definitely going to prospective students' visits and plan to ask current students about this frankly.

Edited February 2, 2018 by qeta

[rising_star]

Funding (during the academic year and during the summer), teaching opportunities (if you think you might want to teach later), stats training, placement (departmental and specifically for whomever might be your advisor), fit with the people in the department (not necessarily your cohort but the people there who you might see in classes or work with on a project). Outside of the department, I'd think about potential external committee members, library/research resources, location, ability to pursue hobbies you have (I train a martial art so I looked for available places to do that), cost of flights to friends/family, and weather.

If you're planning to do a dissertation which will require external funding to conduct research, I'd also pay close attention to the track record of your advisor and your department of getting those in a timely fashion. For example, if you want to do international data collection and no one in the department has gotten a major external grant for research in the last 3-4 years, I'd be wary.

[csot]

I will echo rising_star's sentiments.

If you plan on going into academia after graduating, funding and program rank/placement should be the main factors that you look at. Once you know funding has been secured and that alumni of your specific program get good jobs after they graduate, you can consider other things (e.g., location, access to resources, etc.)

[European Lumpi]

I found this somewhere else. Might be good to keep in mind to reach out to advanced grad students. (Feel free to disregard the disgruntled, crude language if you wish)

 

"REMINDER to all prospective students to seek out advanced graduate students and recent grads of the department for their perspective on the quality of training they have received.

These people are not necessarily going to be easy to find. They're busy doing research, preparing for the job market, or working towards tenure. They don't usually even show their faces at visit days. But they're absolutely going to be giving much more candid advice about your likely outcome should you choose to attend their alma mater.

Visiting prospective students are going to spend 95% of their time with young students in their starry-eyed first few years of bull**it course work who literally have no idea what it actually takes to get a job and succeed in academia. Don't listen to any students until they've gone through a round on the job market and have an actual sense as to whether the department has actually done an acceptable job professionalizing them.

I WISH SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME THIS."

[earlgrey99]

23 hours ago, European Lumpi said:

I found this somewhere else. Might be good to keep in mind to reach out to advanced grad students. (Feel free to disregard the disgruntled, crude language if you wish)

 

"REMINDER to all prospective students to seek out advanced graduate students and recent grads of the department for their perspective on the quality of training they have received.

These people are not necessarily going to be easy to find. They're busy doing research, preparing for the job market, or working towards tenure. They don't usually even show their faces at visit days. But they're absolutely going to be giving much more candid advice about your likely outcome should you choose to attend their alma mater.

Visiting prospective students are going to spend 95% of their time with young students in their starry-eyed first few years of bull**it course work who literally have no idea what it actually takes to get a job and succeed in academia. Don't listen to any students until they've gone through a round on the job market and have an actual sense as to whether the department has actually done an acceptable job professionalizing them.

I WISH SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME THIS."

Wow, thanks for this! Very helpful and thoughtful, and will certainly become a part of my calculations if I can manage to get ahold of some folks.

Right now I'm deciding between two programs, and while it initially felt very overwhelming, I've gotten a lot of information in the past couple of days that has helped make me feel much more certain about which way I'm leaning. I'm currently working in a research position, and I'm really keen on continuing to research. TAing isn't something that sounds thrilling to me (and I don't really have aspirations of staying at a university to teach, so I'm not overly concerned with gaining experience teaching-- I'm sure at some point in the 5-7 years I'll give it a go, but not my top priority).

Both schools have offered me roughly the same amount of funding, but one has offered me a research assistant position out of the gate. I've been in touch with a grad student at the second institution, and they've indicated that it's a huge rarity at that institution to get a full RA position. Even before the RA position was offered, the 1st school was offering me the same amount of money for less work--summers funded with 0 strings. What all this adds up to me is opportunities to hone my research skills, work with data, and potentially publish, which are all only going to help me in the long run to get more funding (through school grants, as well as outside grants like maybe the NSF GRFP?) and land a job on the other side of this whole thing.

My point in all of this is, if this is a consideration that makes sense for you (obviously there are lots of things to weigh!), think hard about what you're being asked to do to earn the funding you're offered. I imagine that we're going to have a lot of demands on our time, so if there are options that seem neck and neck, but one is offering you the same money for less work (or more appealing work), that's something to think on, as it might allow you to build up your CV in ways that will have short term and long term payoffs.

Edited February 3, 2018 by earlgrey99

[manofthehoff]

Are people visiting all the programs they're accepted to, if those programs pay for travel? I'm wondering if it's disingenuous (exploitative?) to visit a program that I'll very likely not attend.

[Valerian]

I'll be visiting every program I was/will be accepted to. This is on the advice of several of my professors at a Top-5 institution. I was told that regardless of whether you enroll, you'll meet more of your sociological contemporaries (people that will be graduating, going on the job market, and contributing to the field around the same time as you). Also, not only will it send the signal that you gave each school a full and fair consideration (which you should, regardless of where you -think- you want to be now), the schools you don't attend may be schools to which you'll be applying for positions in a few years -- apparently memories in academia are quite long. So, if you think you can spare the time, and they are offering to cover your expenses, I think it's worth it to visit each of the schools at which you've been offered a place.

[toinfinityandbeyond]

4 hours ago, manofthehoff said:

Are people visiting all the programs they're accepted to, if those programs pay for travel? I'm wondering if it's disingenuous (exploitative?) to visit a program that I'll very likely not attend.

I'm not going to a couple because a) they directly conflict with another one or b ) I have a class/life obligation that I cannot miss to be there. I have heard that it's good to go to schools even if you don't think you'll go there because you could end up making a really good connection with a professor or feeling like the department's culture would be a place that you could be productive/thrive. But I understand your feeling about not wanting to waste the department's money/time, so I'd say it depends on how sure you are that you don't want to attend. 

[socstudentzzz]

On 2/17/2018 at 3:54 PM, manofthehoff said:

Are people visiting all the programs they're accepted to, if those programs pay for travel? I'm wondering if it's disingenuous (exploitative?) to visit a program that I'll very likely not attend.

Echoing what others have said, I'll definitely be going to all visit/recruitment days that I can. The POIs I mentioned in my applications are scholars who I really admire and I would love the opportunity to meet them, regardless of where I end up. Plus, even though I know what program I will most likely attend, maybe another school might change my mind? You never know. 

[rosco276]

I mirror the prevailing sentiments here. I recently went to my first open house, and it has disrupted the pecking order I had among five acceptances. I expect they all might cause further disruption. There is no replacement for spending time with people in places - frankly, after the internet/computer drudgery of applying, I relish this stage where things become tangible and real. 

[Asaid]

There are also good pieces on this topic from the political science section.

[manofthehoff]

All helpful advice, thank you! I guess I'll be going to every funded visit then

[Madelene]

On 2/3/2018 at 4:41 PM, earlgrey99 said:

Right now I'm deciding between two programs, and while it initially felt very overwhelming, I've gotten a lot of information in the past couple of days that has helped make me feel much more certain about which way I'm leaning. I'm currently working in a research position, and I'm really keen on continuing to research. TAing isn't something that sounds thrilling to me (and I don't really have aspirations of staying at a university to teach, so I'm not overly concerned with gaining experience teaching-- I'm sure at some point in the 5-7 years I'll give it a go, but not my top priority).

 

Which two are you deciding between? Congrats!