MPH@GW - fishy? legit? 2U...

[Rosie87]

Hi public health people, I'm a career changer and have just been accepted to the MPH@GW online program at the Milken Institute School of Public Health at George Washington. I did my application in a big rush coached along by a very supportive and enthusiastic "admissions counselor" and didn't take a lot of time to investigate the program beyond its own marketing materials beforehand.

Once I sat back to wait for a decision, I started sniffing around, and I'm feeling unhappy at what felt like a sneaky marketing effort to mask the fact that the "admissions counselor" works not for GW but for GW's for-profit tech partner 2U, which makes its money by taking a cut of tuition for the online programs it develops with otherwise legit non-profit grad schools. (Which may also explain why it offers virtually no merit-based funding) That red flag has me wondering whether the program is really what it claims to be, namely an online equivalent to GW's in-person MPH programs. I am doing more digging, but haven't turned up any conclusive evidence either way. The program is accredited and faculty-reviewed every month, according to a report on online programs by GWU's student senate. But students at several schools including GW have raised concerns that some 2U-partnered programs (not MPH though) are not on par with in-person offerings.

Does anyone have any experience or thoughts to share? Thanks.

[DrPHtobe]

I think most online versions of courses use a "partner" for admissions. The main reason schools offer online courses (I assume) is to make money. Just because they're non-profit doesn't mean they don't make millions (and then spend it). They can double their admissions, without increasing their physical facilities. So they can spend that extra tuition on improving their school (in every sense). I don't think that the partners develop the course at all. They just provide the admin. The courses are usually developed and provided by the faculty. It varies, but for the online Masters that I did (albeit in the UK), I had access to recorded lectures that were the same as the on-site students attended, and my tutor was a member of faculty as well, she was the one that marked the coursework. Perhaps it's different with GWU. One caveat - I think the more modern online courses have a "sales person" sell you the course (education is a booming business after all) and perhaps the sales pitch is what puts some people off.

Personally I was pretty happy with my online MSc. If I don't get into a DrPH, I'll probably do an MPH online. Of course, it's great to study at a physical school, but online courses offer a great option for a student that wants to learn and work, and at the end of it, you have your MPH and work experience for your CV too.

I have looked a little into the online MPH courses, there are many cheaper than GWU - Maryland, Drexel, Emory, Albany, USF, Arizona, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Colorado etc. I often wonder why more Americans don't attend the UK universities online. LSHTM, Liverpool and Edinburgh are all excellent universities and all offer online MPHs for about 1/3 of the price of GWU.

Anyway, my thoughts - yes, be sceptical, but if the school has a good reputation, they're not going to risk that with a shady online course. As long as you're interested in the course electives/whatever niche the school offers, then go for it  . (Oh and good luck!)

[hccgrl]

You know, I applied and got rejected.  I was very disappointed. The admissions person I had contact with kept string me that although my GPA was a bit on the low side ( graduated with a 3.66, but overall GPA was about 2.8 over an 8 year period), my 8 years of Health care experience made up for it. 

She kept pushing me to apply, not to mention, I was loving their online course format. So I said what the heck. 

Looking back, it was definitely a big marketing scam. No one should pay that much for a master's. I wouldn't advise anyone to apply for their online program.  

[Rosie87]

Interesting perspectives from both of you, thank you. There is an argument to be made for online programs, definitely, and especially for people who can't just relocate willy-nilly for school. GW is definitely expensive. I don't think this is a bad program, or at least I have absolutely no evidence to support that concern. But the profit element leaves me with an icky feeling, as does the marketing by people who work for the tech company but do nothing to disabuse applicants of the assumption they work for GW. I feel like higher education should be above deceptive marketing tricks. Is that just me being stuck in the last century? Perhaps I am a little naive.

But in a more practical vein, in addition to providing an actual education I am hoping grad school will be an opportunity to build a professional community. That seems like something that might be hard to do in a huge online program. I wonder if any online grads can weigh in on that.

[Pennk]

I did an online program (University of New England's MPH) but I am an employee of the University and got my degree for a severely reduced cost.  That being said, I would definitely not recommend UNE for anyone who wasn't getting a steep discount, but I cannot speak to any other program.  I will say that community building was extremely limited in my online MPH.  The most sense of community was in a Facebook group.  I do not know how GWU's courses are structured, but in my program each course had a course designer and several adjunct instructors who basically were graders. There was very little consistency across adjunct instructors.  Some were stellar, gave detailed, personalized feedback, and helped facilitate discussions.  Others were radio silent and basically just graded assignments (at one point I thought a professor had died or been arrested because he stopped grading assignments totally).  If there were discrepancies between the course syllabus and that week's module, often my instructor had to ask the course designer for clarification.  To me this speaks volumes about the fact that these courses were delivered by graders as opposed to instructors.  

I would really look into how courses are delivered.  Find the Facebook page and see what students are saying.  Ask to be connected with current students and instructors in the program.  See if you can find any accreditation documentation (not sure if these are made public).  Right as I was graduating, my program's accreditation totally went down the pooper and now they are in a process of amending some serious issues - lack of student governance being one of them.

I totally understand the merit of online programs.  I would not have gotten an MPH and be interviewing with PhD programs today without online graduate programs.  I think if you do some more background research and really look into what you are hoping to get out of the program - a degree vs. strong community, research options, networking options - you will be able to make a good decision for you.

P.S. I found it really difficult to get strong LORs from faculty in my program.  When I would ask for them the response was "I don't know if I know enough about you..." and I was like "I took two courses with you which is the most faculty consistency for me in this whole program!"  If there are a lot of adjunct faculty, expect a lot of one-off professors which once again limits your ability to make meaningful connections with faculty.

[Rosie87]

That's so helpful, Pennk, thank you. In the end I decided against MPH@GW. And six minutes after I sent them my notice, I got an acceptance from another program I feel much better about. I'm not sure what that demonstrates -- perhaps just that today is my lucky day!

[misval999]

FYI-- GW is being sued by alumni over the quality of another online program: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/15/george-washington-u-alumni-sue-university-over-quality-online-program