"Reputation" of PsyD Program

[thekitchensink]

I'm currently deciding between two schools (PGSP and Pepperdine), and it seems like there's no wrong choice! Both programs provide an amazing education, and within the psych community have great reputations. The questions that I keep coming back to are: 1) How much do stats matter if they're still top 25 schools, and 2) how much does a school's "reputation" to the layperson matter? (e.g.: If you have a private practice, would a client be more likely to seek a psychologist from Pepperdine versus Palo Alto University)

Can anyone speak to either of these from experience?

[Sherrinford]

Based on what I've heard from colleagues, the layperson will just care that there is a "Dr" in front of your name. It would be very uncommon for a client to ask you where you got your doctorate, not to mention have enough knowledge of graduate programs to know which schools are respected. 

I'm not sure about the importance of stats, but the reputation is probably more important in terms of matching for internship and post-docs. In your situation, I would make a decision based on (1) degree of funding, (2) atmosphere of program, (3) internship match and licensure statistics, (4) geographic location. 

[PsyDuck90]

I agree with Sherrinford. I would place degree of funding and APPIC match rates and EPPP pass rates as the top priorities. Especially if you want to go into private practice, the salary estimates can vary greatly, and if you're starting off only making about $60k-$70k a year but have $200k of student loan debt, you're going to have a really hard time financially for awhile after graduation. 

[psych0]

Those programs have low match rates and poor reputations. 

[squeakyclean]

Congratulations on getting into those two programs! I found this forum that discussed Palo Alto University and indicated that their match rate was quite high. Here's a link: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/best-psy-d-programs-in-ca-or-fl.1266418/

[insert Psychologist]

6 hours ago, thekitchensink said:

 1) How much do stats matter if they're still top 25 schools, and 2) how much does a school's "reputation" to the layperson matter? (e.g.: If you have a private practice, would a client be more likely to seek a psychologist from Pepperdine versus Palo Alto University)

1) Let's be clear here, the two schools you are deciding between are not top 25. PGSP has the Stanford named attached to it but do not let them deceive you into thinking you "are attending Stanford." With that being said PGSP has a much better track record in matching students to APA accredited internships. PGSP data Here, Pepperdine data Here

2) The general public has little knowledge of clinical program prestige so honestly the only thing that matters in private practice is your business sense. When it comes to training opportunities, yes reputation matters. From what I hear, PGSP has an okay reputation locally, nationally not so much. 

With that out of the way be realistic about life during and after attending these programs: Average completion time for the PGSP is between 5-6 years, with tuition at 48k that's 200k+ in debt without living expenses. You can do a quick search for bay area housing but in short- its very expensive. Average completion time for Pepperdine is between 5-6 years, with tuition at 60k that's 300k without living expenses. Keep in mind, this is not a lucrative field and California in general is saturated with psychologist. 

My best advice would be to get into a funded program, even partially funded would go a long way. The reality is many people pursuing a PhD go into clinical practice, do not be scared of research. Many funded PhD programs provide amazing clinical experience.

[thekitchensink]

1 hour ago, squeakyclean said:

Congratulations on getting into those two programs! I found this forum that discussed Palo Alto University and indicated that their match rate was quite high. Here's a link: https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/best-psy-d-programs-in-ca-or-fl.1266418/

Thank you!

[thekitchensink]

Appreciate all of the constructive feedback! To clarify, I only applied to PsyD programs, and am comparing solely amongst those.

[PsyDuck90]

27 minutes ago, thekitchensink said:

Appreciate all of the constructive feedback! To clarify, I only applied to PsyD programs, and am comparing solely amongst those.

May I ask why specifically you are interested in the PsyD over everything else? The only reason I ask is because there are a few misconceptions about PhD vs PsyD as well as PsyD vs MA level licensures. 

[nycgrad14]

43 minutes ago, thekitchensink said:

Appreciate all of the constructive feedback! To clarify, I only applied to PsyD programs, and am comparing solely amongst those.

hey there,

I am not sure about the prestige of the programs but you should really use this report instead of all these other links that people have been sending. Its a direct report from APPIC.

https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC Match Rates 2011-16 by Univ.pdf - when looking at both programs it seems like PGSP has a better success rate of matching. I would not agree with people saying that PhD and PsyD are similar. Some might, but for the majority there are major differences in what is expected of you in the program (taking more stats, writing a masters thesis, writing and defending a dissertation vs. psyd which is usually a 5th year project in case conceptualization). 

But congrats on getting accepted to two programs and I hope this link is helpful for you!!

[PsyDuck90]

1 hour ago, nycgrad14 said:

I would not agree with people saying that PhD and PsyD are similar. Some might, but for the majority there are major differences in what is expected of you in the program (taking more stats, writing a masters thesis, writing and defending a dissertation vs. psyd which is usually a 5th year project in case conceptualization). 

Not true. Many high quality PsyD programs require a dissertation and statistics, as well as research. Look at Baylor and Rutgers, which are two of the most prominent PsyD programs in the country. One of the purposes of the Vail model is to create practitioners that utilize and understand the science, and it is very difficult to be able to absorb the science correctly without having a good grasp on it. In order to understand a results section, you need to understand the stats. 

I applied to a combination of PsyDs and balanced PhDs, and every PsyD program I looked at requires stats courses and a dissertation. 

[insert Psychologist]

1 hour ago, nycgrad14 said:

hey there,

I am not sure about the prestige of the programs but you should really use this report instead of all these other links that people have been sending. Its a direct report from APPIC.

https://www.appic.org/Portals/0/downloads/APPIC Match Rates 2011-16 by Univ.pdf - when looking at both programs it seems like PGSP has a better success rate of matching. I would not agree with people saying that PhD and PsyD are similar. Some might, but for the majority there are major differences in what is expected of you in the program (taking more stats, writing a masters thesis, writing and defending a dissertation vs. psyd which is usually a 5th year project in case conceptualization). 

But congrats on getting accepted to two programs and I hope this link is helpful for you!!

“All those other links” are Outcomes, admissions, retention, tuition, and match rate information from the official programs websites that are required to be reported by APA accredited programs. 

Your PDF is less information about specific programs in a harder to read format. 

[nycgrad14]

52 minutes ago, insert Psychologist said:

“All those other links” are Outcomes, admissions, retention, tuition, and match rate information from the official programs websites that are required to be reported by APA accredited programs. 

Your PDF is less information about specific programs in a harder to read format. 

Was referring more to the SDN thread. Also I don't think it's hard to read at all, guess using ctrl+f to find your school and looking at 7 columns could be hard for some.

[nycgrad14]

1 hour ago, Hk328 said:

Not true. Many high quality PsyD programs require a dissertation and statistics, as well as research. Look at Baylor and Rutgers, which are two of the most prominent PsyD programs in the country. One of the purposes of the Vail model is to create practitioners that utilize and understand the science, and it is very difficult to be able to absorb the science correctly without having a good grasp on it. In order to understand a results section, you need to understand the stats. 

I applied to a combination of PsyDs and balanced PhDs, and every PsyD program I looked at requires stats courses and a dissertation. 

Yeah, you're definitely right! I was trying to point out more of the directions of the programs. But there are definitely some really strong research PsyD programs!

[peter45]

18 hours ago, insert Psychologist said:

Average completion time for the PGSP is between 5-6 years, with tuition at 48k that's 200k+ in debt without living expenses. You can do a quick search for bay area housing but in short- its very expensive. Average completion time for Pepperdine is between 5-6 years, with tuition at 60k that's 300k without living expenses. Keep in mind, this is not a lucrative field and California in general is saturated with psychologist. 

My best advice would be to get into a funded program, even partially funded would go a long way. The reality is many people pursuing a PhD go into clinical practice, do not be scared of research. Many funded PhD programs provide amazing clinical experience.

Your numbers are off. Just because a program takes 5-6 years to complete does not mean that students are paying full tuition for that many years. Most PsyD programs that I've looked at only charge full tuition for the first 3 years. Some PsyD programs offer some amount of stipend/ tuition remission for research work. Fourth year is generally pay per credit, which can amount to less than $1000, and fifth year is internship, for which most people are paid and do not pay tuition. Additionally, because the research requirement is lower at most PsyD programs, some students are able to work (psychology related work or other work). Funded PhD programs are very hard to get into (look through posts on this site from very qualified candidates who get waitlisted/ rejected cycle after cycle), and if someone is willing to take on some amount of debt (or if they have savings or a spouse or parents who can support them), it might pay off in the long run over, say, becoming a social worker/ mental health counselor and having to do many years of professional development after school to gain the clinical skills taught in a PsyD program, and then still getting paid less than a psychologist with a PsyD. 

[Akakolu]

Congratulations on getting accepted!

Quick question: When did you interview and when did you hear back? I applied and am still waiting on a response but have offers from other schools. Does it make sense to keep waiting? 

[rocktheballad]

Hey there, kitchen sink! I'm in a similar boat in that I'm trying to decide between three programs, Pepperdine being one of them! Feel free to respond if you want to chat - it's a tough decision!  

[itznatalie]

No doubt your decision has been made, but I thought I’d respond for reader clarification. I attend Pepperdine working on a second MA (both from there). My professors know I have an ease with research writing, so they’ve recommended me as RA to outside colleagues and for dissertation teams to assist PsyD students. They most definitely do research beginning their first year. Courses are ALL DAY on Tuesday & Thursday now (I think it was 3-4 days before). The other days are clinical hours. Match rates are excellent (though some students vary in their placement goals). Everyone finishes in 4 yrs though some choose part-time internships because they are parents of young children or work a second job for other desired experience (not the land of only 22 yr olds). It’s not sink or swim, either. The students are very well-mentored by faculty who are veterans and experts in their professional capacities beyond education (I’ve had a few as MA course professors). These advisors are very well-connected professionally. I was recently given a referral from a NYC PhD for my teen. Turns out it’s a PsyD who went to Pepperdine, and I personally pay $250/hr. We tried a few PhDs from prestigious ranked/funded programs before this but my kid would always refuse to go back for second session. Now she can’t wait to go, and implementing the strategies. $200-$400 is the going rate in LA whether PsyD or PhD...most people don’t care. Most Pepperdine PsyDs (and MFTs) I know of balance a combo of private practice, community outreach, teaching, and some clinical specialty (psych evals, end of life counseling in hospice, court expert witness, etc). So yes, the tuition is high, but graduates seem to have less worry re paying off their debt over time. 

Where did you end up?? 

[Sherrinford]

On 3/8/2018 at 6:30 PM, Hk328 said:

Not true. Many high quality PsyD programs require a dissertation and statistics, as well as research. Look at Baylor and Rutgers, which are two of the most prominent PsyD programs in the country. One of the purposes of the Vail model is to create practitioners that utilize and understand the science, and it is very difficult to be able to absorb the science correctly without having a good grasp on it. In order to understand a results section, you need to understand the stats. 

I applied to a combination of PsyDs and balanced PhDs, and every PsyD program I looked at requires stats courses and a dissertation. 

This is true but a little exaggerated. The part I would object to is the "many high quality PsyD programs." Baylor and Rutgers are excellent programs that are leagues above the other PsyD programs, and their degree structure/content is incredibly similar to that of a PhD. 

As suggested by users above, if projected debt is not a concern, you should prioritize your choices based on APA match rate statistics.