How much is industry experience worth in grad apps?

[squigglyface_emoji]

Hi Everyone, 

After graduating with a BS in 2015, I've been working at a stealth medical diagnostic start up in the R&D department for over 2 years and I'm planning to apply to some phD programs fall 2019 focusing on microbiome/immuno/cancer . I have a question regarding how much my industry experience will help me in my applications.

Some context: I have a pretty low uGPA: 3.13 from burning out during one quarter which resulted in me receiving a 2.97. I tried really hard to bring it back up... and I sort of did, but by the time I figured out how to study well, it was too late.... My GRE scores are mediocre 157/158/4.0. I can try to retake it, but I'd honestly rather not because I absolutely hate standardized testing. During undergrad, I did 2 summers of cancer research and 1 year of genetics research. The 1 year of genetics research included a short thesis and I received my BS with honors.

During my time at the start up, I've made numerous key contributions to the product from its research phase to its soon upcoming product release (got my name in several pending IPs). Also, in the short time that I've been there, I've been promoted twice and 3 mid year bonuses. Because of my stellar performance and contributions, I'll definitely be able to snag great LoRs from the director of my team, the CEO(well known figure from stanford, 2 time forbes 30 under 30), and the CMO (practicing MD and professor at Stanford/Board member of various other small start ups/apparently knows everyone). My mentors tell me that it's a huge asset for me to be able to say that I played a significant role in a product from research to final product which is true in industry, but I'm not sure how it'll look for grad schools...especially with my poor grades and GRE scores. I don't have any publications either because.... well my company is in stealth mode. My work experience and research is really all I have going for me.

I really appreciate any feedback you guys have. Thank you for your time!!!!!

Also, I'm taking recommendations for which programs to apply for as I'm currently in the process of narrowing down my interests as well. Super interested in the interplay between the microbiome and immuno and potentially harnessing that relationship to develop clinically relevant therapies/tech.

[Victorious Secret]

Hey SquigglyFace!

Congratulations on your recent industry success! There is certainly going to be a way to incorporate and frame those accomplishments into your application such that they are beneficial for you. The extent to which your industry experience will ameliorate the less impressive aspects of your application will depend on how you construct your "story" so to speak. You will want to discuss (so long as this is genuine and accurate) how your academic adolescence, lack of study skills etc. gave way to a re-invigorated research superstar, whose accolades are now evident in your productive career and steep professional trajectory. A way to demonstrate that you graduated with those high-level study skills would have been to enroll in, and ace, some grad classes at a nearby research university, but that is not essential here. 

I might caution you to not put all of your eggs into the industry basket when it comes to LORs. You mention the director, CEO, and CMO, and it is good that they have strong connections. But for PhD applications the most important connections will be among faculty members. The CEO (is it de la Zerda?) or CMO may be quite valuable, especially if he/she is a faculty member in biology (and not just the medical school), and especially for applications to Northern California schools where his name might carry even more weight, and especially if he can comment about specific contributions that he has seen you make (a specific, detailed LOR from a director will generally carry more weight than a generic one from an executive). The more personal those letters are the better.

It might be a good idea to use no more than two letters from your current employer. And I hope that others will comment on this also. But if your three letters are all coming from a single industry entity, that may not give the admission committee the breadth of opinion on you for them to believe that they have a good feel for how your work has been received by PIs. And if all 3 LORs came from the same company, the details might be somewhat repetitive. Does that make sense?  If you have worked in two academic labs and one industry lab, I would use a letter from each. Especially the professor in whose lab you completed your honors thesis... that could be a very strong letter. Caveat: Do not use a LOR from any lab you have worked in where you don't believe the letter will be at least good. (And three excellent LORs is better than 3 excellent + 1 fair LOR.)

Other things to consider: which research/work experience most closely reflects what you want to do your PhD research on? And did your undergrad PIs have reputation/connections of their own that can be helpful? 

You probably don't want to hear this, but I would also consider re-taking the GRE. It's not lethal for you, but it takes a lot to overcome a low GPA coupled with a mediocre GRE. Getting your scores into the 160s, just 5 total points of increase, would improve the optics of your stats enough to erase this from being an issue. If there is a local, short-term GRE crash course you could take, I would give it some thought. It's one variable you still have a good amount of control over.

I'm not the best person to tell you where to apply, but I wouldn't try for the ultra-competitive landing spots like Harvard/MIT/Rockefeller unless you feel you have a specific "in" at one of those schools. If you feel you can reach for Stanford because of your industry connection, go for it, but yours is a slightly non-traditional path, so apply broadly, and apply enthusiastically. Stay aggressive. I wish you all of the best in your research future!

[squigglyface_emoji]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:06 PM, Victorious Secret said:

Hey SquigglyFace!

Congratulations on your recent industry success! There is certainly going to be a way to incorporate and frame those accomplishments into your application such that they are beneficial for you. The extent to which your industry experience will ameliorate the less impressive aspects of your application will depend on how you construct your "story" so to speak. You will want to discuss (so long as this is genuine and accurate) how your academic adolescence, lack of study skills etc. gave way to a re-invigorated research superstar, whose accolades are now evident in your productive career and steep professional trajectory. A way to demonstrate that you graduated with those high-level study skills would have been to enroll in, and ace, some grad classes at a nearby research university, but that is not essential here. 

I might caution you to not put all of your eggs into the industry basket when it comes to LORs. You mention the director, CEO, and CMO, and it is good that they have strong connections. But for PhD applications the most important connections will be among faculty members. The CEO (is it de la Zerda?) or CMO may be quite valuable, especially if he/she is a faculty member in biology (and not just the medical school), and especially for applications to Northern California schools where his name might carry even more weight, and especially if he can comment about specific contributions that he has seen you make (a specific, detailed LOR from a director will generally carry more weight than a generic one from an executive). The more personal those letters are the better.

It might be a good idea to use no more than two letters from your current employer. And I hope that others will comment on this also. But if your three letters are all coming from a single industry entity, that may not give the admission committee the breadth of opinion on you for them to believe that they have a good feel for how your work has been received by PIs. And if all 3 LORs came from the same company, the details might be somewhat repetitive. Does that make sense?  If you have worked in two academic labs and one industry lab, I would use a letter from each. Especially the professor in whose lab you completed your honors thesis... that could be a very strong letter. Caveat: Do not use a LOR from any lab you have worked in where you don't believe the letter will be at least good. (And three excellent LORs is better than 3 excellent + 1 fair LOR.)

Other things to consider: which research/work experience most closely reflects what you want to do your PhD research on? And did your undergrad PIs have reputation/connections of their own that can be helpful? 

You probably don't want to hear this, but I would also consider re-taking the GRE. It's not lethal for you, but it takes a lot to overcome a low GPA coupled with a mediocre GRE. Getting your scores into the 160s, just 5 total points of increase, would improve the optics of your stats enough to erase this from being an issue. If there is a local, short-term GRE crash course you could take, I would give it some thought. It's one variable you still have a good amount of control over.

I'm not the best person to tell you where to apply, but I wouldn't try for the ultra-competitive landing spots like Harvard/MIT/Rockefeller unless you feel you have a specific "in" at one of those schools. If you feel you can reach for Stanford because of your industry connection, go for it, but yours is a slightly non-traditional path, so apply broadly, and apply enthusiastically. Stay aggressive. I wish you all of the best in your research future!

Thank you so much Victorious Secret (clever name btw). Your response is super helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time to write back. I definitely have much to consider

Yes, it is de la zerda. I definitely triangulated on his identity with my description haha!

Edited April 24, 2018 by squigglyface_emoji
included quote

[hopefulgradstudent999]

I applied after 3 years in industry and I will second victorius secret's recommendation on not getting all of your LORs from your current job. I did the person I knew best and knew would write me a strong LOR from my job, my undergrad thesis advisor, and a second undergrad professor that I took multiple classes with. I was specifically told I had strong LORs from two separate program directors. This could be happenstance, but I do think going with a combination is your best bet. As for gpa, I had a relatively low gpa (3.3) and mediocre GRE scores as well (like 60%/81%/85%) and I found that I drastically underestimated how competitive my application would be. That being said, there is so much random chance to all of this. I got outright rejected from schools that were ranked 60 spots lower than schools that offered me admission+fellowship. I think strong letters from undergrad and a strong, focused SOP will go a long way. I would shoot for schools in the 20-60 rank about that have research that you like. Don't be afraid to reach out to faculty either because I found that the vast majority of researchers DO NOT update their websites and there is only so much to glean from their recent pubs. I cannot believe how many interviews I had prepped for only to sit down with the faculty and discover they had not worked on their website stated stuff in over 5 years. You need to figure out which schools seem like a good fit both research and culture wise. Program websites are typically a good tool for this.

[squigglyface_emoji]

On 4/24/2018 at 5:54 PM, hopefulgradstudent999 said:

I applied after 3 years in industry and I will second victorius secret's recommendation on not getting all of your LORs from your current job. I did the person I knew best and knew would write me a strong LOR from my job, my undergrad thesis advisor, and a second undergrad professor that I took multiple classes with. I was specifically told I had strong LORs from two separate program directors. This could be happenstance, but I do think going with a combination is your best bet. As for gpa, I had a relatively low gpa (3.3) and mediocre GRE scores as well (like 60%/81%/85%) and I found that I drastically underestimated how competitive my application would be. That being said, there is so much random chance to all of this. I got outright rejected from schools that were ranked 60 spots lower than schools that offered me admission+fellowship. I think strong letters from undergrad and a strong, focused SOP will go a long way. I would shoot for schools in the 20-60 rank about that have research that you like. Don't be afraid to reach out to faculty either because I found that the vast majority of researchers DO NOT update their websites and there is only so much to glean from their recent pubs. I cannot believe how many interviews I had prepped for only to sit down with the faculty and discover they had not worked on their website stated stuff in over 5 years. You need to figure out which schools seem like a good fit both research and culture wise. Program websites are typically a good tool for this.

Thanks a bunch! Originally,  I wasn't so confident in getting as strong as an LOR from my undergrad thesis advisor as I am from people at my company. I feel as if I've grown exponentially more and made significantly more strides while working at my job than I did at my undergrad project, but I definitely understand the need for LORs that have more variability so the admissions committee would be able to have more to access me with. I'll reach out to my undergrad thesis advisor and ask if he'd be able to write a strong LOR anyways. Doesn't hurt to try . Thanks a lot for your advice! 

[researchrocks]

Hi @squigglyface_emojiI am seeing this thread way late but I am in the same situation! How did things end up working out for you? Any advice for people in a similar situation? 

[shuaizh117]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:41 PM, researchrocks said:

Hi @squigglyface_emojiI am seeing this thread way late but I am in the same situation! How did things end up working out for you? Any advice for people in a similar situation? 

Hi there, what's your background like? I'm in the same boat, have been working as a tech in a research institute for 4 years after I got my master's and plan to apply to biomedical sciences for Fall 2022. I'm international tho, even harder for me! 

[Lesdormis]

Same here, although the difference is, I don't think I have made many achievements in my current industry position.

I am Bioinformatics Background, international student, happy to chat.