Financing SIPA

[le_neocon]

Well, I just received a mail from SIPA with an estimate of their costs and I was just dismayed really. Not that I didn't know that SIPA was already expensive, but to think that you have to spend 130K on a non MBA education is a little difficult.

----- COST OF ATTENDANCE -----

2010 - 2011

Tuition & Fees

43,867

Room/Board

15,322

Books

1,500

Travel

900

Personal & Others

6,265

TOTAL

67,854

I read a statistic that the average debt a student has out of grad school at SIPA is 66k, which could be revised to 75k this year. I was pretty fine with that. But the question really is how I'm going to reach that figure when I'm starting at around 134K. 20k could be an avg. scholarship award. What about the rest ? A paid internship ?

It really baffles. SIPA was my first choice and I really want to go there. And if its a certain level of debt I can handle it, but its just that its getting a little worrying.

[ugachaca]

Well, I just received a mail from SIPA with an estimate of their costs and I was just dismayed really. Not that I didn't know that SIPA was already expensive, but to think that you have to spend 130K on a non MBA education is a little difficult.

----- COST OF ATTENDANCE -----

2010 - 2011

Tuition & Fees

43,867

Room/Board

15,322

Books

1,500

Travel

900

Personal & Others

6,265

TOTAL

67,854

I read a statistic that the average debt a student has out of grad school at SIPA is 66k, which could be revised to 75k this year. I was pretty fine with that. But the question really is how I'm going to reach that figure when I'm starting at around 134K. 20k could be an avg. scholarship award. What about the rest ? A paid internship ?

It really baffles. SIPA was my first choice and I really want to go there. And if its a certain level of debt I can handle it, but its just that its getting a little worrying.

I'm waiting on external funding decisions (one of which involves deferring enrollment), but i'd love to know why SIPA keeps the purse strings so tight. I can certainly speculate, but don't really care to do so. There are some VERY strong applicants who are not being offered a dime this year...

[gazelle]

With SIPA as my first choice as well, I also wonder how to get from $134k down to $75k, which would also make me sleep a lot better than the full $134k. I'm curious to know where I can come up with $59k as well...

[Bastille]

Evening, Gentlemen.

I have done a bit of research, and can tell you a few things. I'll dig up the sources later, if you want them. (Any current SIPA students are welcome to correct me -- I'm just an interested Prospy.)

As I understand, in previous years, SIPA has been a part of Columbia's Grad School of Arts and Sciences. In that position, it was sending approximately $4mil per year to fund other programs that did not benefit SIPA -- hence the partially-deserved reputation as a cash cow. As of 2009, however, SIPA has been granted nominal independence, and will henceforth keep its own funds. This, in addition to a big $30 million pledge, will mean that future students will not suffer the same huge debt load. So Columbia appears to be working on this. The University also appears to be gearing up a serious investment in SIPA. In the commencement address from last year, one of the deans mentioned a move to a newly constructed building in 2015 to better meet the needs of the program.

My takeaway from this: SIPA is an expensive, but upwardly-mobile investment. Columbia cares a lot about the program, and I expect the degree to appreciate significantly in value. This is why I am considering taking the (expensive) plunge with only my small external grant to help in the first year.

Regarding the student debt at graduation, remember a few things. First, yes, half of students have about half of their second year tuition paid. Second, remember that you will have an internship, likely paid, during the summer. If it is anything at all resembling a finance job in the private sector (I imagine there's a fairly wide range, given SIPA's demographics), you will make enough to cover a lot more than your summer cost-of-living. Finally, I imagine a fair number of students come in with some savings, or generous folks, who help to pay down their debt.

But yeah, I'm right with you all: terrified! haha....

edit: minor grammar issues. Don't want the ad-coms to see that I can't spell their school's name correctly!

Edited March 13, 2010 by Bastille

[econhawk]

Evening, Gentlemen.

I have done a bit of research, and can tell you a few things. I'll dig up the sources later, if you want them. (Any current SIPA students are welcome to correct me -- I'm just an interested Prospy.)

As I understand, in previous years, SIPA has been a part of Columbia's Grad School of Arts and Sciences. In that position, it was sending approximately $4mil per year to fund other programs that did not benefit SIPA -- hence the partially-deserved reputation as a cash cow. As of 2009, however, SIPA has been granted nominal independence, and will henceforth keep its own funds. This, in addition to a big $30 million pledge, will mean that future students will not suffer the same huge debt load. So Columbia appears to be working on this. The University also appears to be gearing up a serious investment in SIPA. In the commencement address from last year, one of the deans mentioned a move to a newly constructed building in 2015 to better meet the needs of the program.

My takeaway from this: SIPA is an expensive, but upwardly-mobile investment. Columbia cares a lot about the program, and I expect the degree to appreciate significantly in value. This is why I am considering taking the (expensive) plunge with only my small external grant to help in the first year.

Regarding the student debt at graduation, remember a few things. First, yes, half of students have about half of their second year tuition paid. Second, remember that you will have an internship, likely paid, during the summer. If it is anything at all resembling a finance job in the private sector (I imagine there's a fairly wide range, given SIPA's demographics), you will make enough to cover a lot more than your summer cost-of-living. Finally, I imagine a fair number of students come in with some savings, or generous folks, who help to pay down their debt.

But yeah, I'm right with you all: terrified! haha....

edit: minor grammar issues. Don't want the ad-coms to see that I can't spell their school's name correctly!

Hi Bastille,

Thanks for your helpful research. I am happy to hear that the university values the school, that a new building is in the works, etc. My question is how will it benefit you or me this year as well enroll?

[MPAIndia2010]

Going by the employment statistics...looks like a long term loan

http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/employment_statistics.html

Definitely worrying !

[Bastille]

Hi Bastille,

Thanks for your helpful research. I am happy to hear that the university values the school, that a new building is in the works, etc. My question is how will it benefit you or me this year as well enroll?

Oh, don't get me wrong. It will only benefit you in the sense that your Diploma is like owning a share of the company. You buy the share, the company grows, the share is worth more. I.E., the reputation of the school is likely to go up a lot. If, and this is a BIG if, you think that the name of your diploma will still be helping you in four or five years, this is an important consideration.

Full disclosure: while I will be attending the SIPA admitted students day, I am highly unlikely to matriculate, given Duke's and Chicago's generosity, as well as the offer from HKS. I am really impressed by SIPA's International Finance and Economics Policy track, however, and NYC is the best place ever. (Outside of Philly, that is. !)

Edited March 19, 2010 by Bastille

[socaljournalist]

I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to be terrified by the SIPA debt load, particularly if you've been accepted to the MIA rather than the MPA. The median income - $55k - does not justify approx. $100k in debt. The only way that is reasonable is if you have wealthy parents who are willing to gift you at least $50k, to bring your debt load down to a more manageable $50k.

I have a friend who went there, finished in '09, and did not find full-time employment with benefits upon graduation. She is still looking for work and deferring her loan payment of $1,000 per month. If you are going to be around 30 by the time you get out, think about how that debt load is going to affect your ability to save for a down payment on a home, etc.

That's why I'm going to Berkeley's Goldman School instead. As a CA resident, I will graduate with approx. 40k in debt (the school generously offers the option to TA as a second-year, which covers the full cost of tuition and gives you a living stipend of 1k/month).

But I understand that if you have no other option, you just have to go to SIPA and hope for the best in terms of debt and the job market in the future.

Good luck!

Oh, don't get me wrong. It will only benefit you in the sense that your Diploma is like owning a share of the company. You buy the share, the company grows, the share is worth more. I.E., the reputation of the school is likely to go up a lot. If, and this is a BIG if, you think that the name of your diploma will still be helping you in four or five years, this is an important consideration.

Full disclosure: while I will be attending the SIPA admitted students day, I am highly unlikely to matriculate, given Duke's and Chicago's generosity, as well as the offer from HKS. I am really impressed by SIPA's International Finance and Economics Policy track, however, and NYC is the best place ever. (Outside of Philly, that is. !)

[Knotty]

What are the various loan options for international students, apart from CitiAssist? How high are the interest rates? Approx 10% without cosigner?

Thanks!

[fallmpp2010]

I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to be terrified by the SIPA debt load, particularly if you've been accepted to the MIA rather than the MPA. The median income - $55k - does not justify approx. $100k in debt. The only way that is reasonable is if you have wealthy parents who are willing to gift you at least $50k, to bring your debt load down to a more manageable $50k.

I have a friend who went there, finished in '09, and did not find full-time employment with benefits upon graduation. She is still looking for work and deferring her loan payment of $1,000 per month. If you are going to be around 30 by the time you get out, think about how that debt load is going to affect your ability to save for a down payment on a home, etc.

That's why I'm going to Berkeley's Goldman School instead. As a CA resident, I will graduate with approx. 40k in debt (the school generously offers the option to TA as a second-year, which covers the full cost of tuition and gives you a living stipend of 1k/month).

But I understand that if you have no other option, you just have to go to SIPA and hope for the best in terms of debt and the job market in the future.

Good luck!

hi socal,

i didn't hear about this option to TA the second year for goldman...can you elaborate? is it available to any goldman student (assuming they maintain a certain gpa etc)?

i was just factoring in the cost reduction since i can apply to be a CA resident second year...which it sounds like i wouldn't have to do if this TA thing was an option..

[herself the elf]

Of course, it depends on how much time you want to invest and what your ultimate goals are, but I just want to throw out there that a lot of people who are interested in policy work end up in PhD programs in poli sci or sociology, for example, which are often free. SIPA was one of the things that attracted me originally to Columbia-- I attended a few classes at SIPA and they were incredible-- but it was a better fit for my long-term interests as well as my purse strings to go for a (free) PhD (in sociology). I can take courses at SIPA and work with the professors, many of whom teach courses both in SIPA and GSAS.

I'm sure you probably already thought about all of this, so I'm sorry if I'm saying stuff you already know. It's just that, last year at this time I had my eyes at SIPA and for me, I'm glad that I did not go that route. (And I second the pre-2009 reputation of SIPA as a cash cow).

In any case, if the MPA/ MIA route is the right one for you and you matriculate, maybe we'll be in classes together Though I anticipate that you and I, "le_neocon," might end up in a friendly argument more than once

Best of luck to you in your decisions.

[socaljournalist]

There's a brief description of this stuff in the admissions packet mailed to you. But I found out the specifics from a friend who graduated from there recently. He said it was "pretty easy" to secure a second-year TA position that covered full tuition and provided a 1k living stipend. It's not a sure thing, but sounds like a way better deal than anything the private schools can offer.

hi socal,

i didn't hear about this option to TA the second year for goldman...can you elaborate? is it available to any goldman student (assuming they maintain a certain gpa etc)?

i was just factoring in the cost reduction since i can apply to be a CA resident second year...which it sounds like i wouldn't have to do if this TA thing was an option..

[MPAIndia2010]

I think you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to be terrified by the SIPA debt load, particularly if you've been accepted to the MIA rather than the MPA. The median income - $55k - does not justify approx. $100k in debt. The only way that is reasonable is if you have wealthy parents who are willing to gift you at least $50k, to bring your debt load down to a more manageable $50k.

Since most of MIA and MPA courses are similar barring a few, how difficult is it to try one's hand at an interesting MPA job.

Also, from what I hear, SIPA does help out second year students with fellowships.

But yes the median salary of $55K is not quite encouraging.

[socaljournalist]

Yes, they do offer fellowships, ranging from $20-40k, but that will still leave you with about $100k in loans, given that the two-year cost is a whopping $137k or something like that.

Maybe some of the policymakers coming out of SIPA will have a special interest in college/grad school cost reform.

I think there's a reason why their MPA median salary is significantly higher at 70k. Maybe those students come into the program with different kind of experience that makes them more lucrative on their way out. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally speaking, it seems like the MIA student gets a lower-paying job than an MPA student, all other things being equal.

Since most of MIA and MPA courses are similar barring a few, how difficult is it to try one's hand at an interesting MPA job.

Also, from what I hear, SIPA does help out second year students with fellowships.

But yes the median salary of $55K is not quite encouraging.

[Lonestar99]

since i posted this in the sais poll, same goes for sipa....two years of army rotc, become an officer, join reserves or active duty. (disclaimer: i have no interest in starting a political discussion).

http://www.fordham.edu/academics/special_programs/army_rotc/index.asp

[le_neocon]

Yes, they do offer fellowships, ranging from $20-40k, but that will still leave you with about $100k in loans, given that the two-year cost is a whopping $137k or something like that.

Maybe some of the policymakers coming out of SIPA will have a special interest in college/grad school cost reform.

I think there's a reason why their MPA median salary is significantly higher at 70k. Maybe those students come into the program with different kind of experience that makes them more lucrative on their way out. I'm sure there are exceptions, but generally speaking, it seems like the MIA student gets a lower-paying job than an MPA student, all other things being equal.

I agree. I think your prospective salary is also a function of prior work experience and other academic credentials. And this applies to whether you're studying in SIPA or SAIS or HKS or even any business school. You can't always get your dream job because you're in A or B. I'd suggest that one should pay attention to improving ones profile while in college too. I'd initially applied for the MPA at SIPA then changed my preference to MIA after looking at a curriculum ( though there isn't much of a difference ).

The lower crust of any top school will tend to get lower salaries etc. than the top crust of a lower ranked school. There really isn't much between the top schools and I really believe its a matter of available choices and personal conviction at the end of the day !

[RH7]

Could I just ask what everyone thinks a reasonable amount to pay for SIPA is? Purely for tuition....

[econhawk]

Oh, don't get me wrong. It will only benefit you in the sense that your Diploma is like owning a share of the company. You buy the share, the company grows, the share is worth more. I.E., the reputation of the school is likely to go up a lot. If, and this is a BIG if, you think that the name of your diploma will still be helping you in four or five years, this is an important consideration.

Full disclosure: while I will be attending the SIPA admitted students day, I am highly unlikely to matriculate, given Duke's and Chicago's generosity, as well as the offer from HKS. I am really impressed by SIPA's International Finance and Economics Policy track, however, and NYC is the best place ever. (Outside of Philly, that is. !)

Bastille, in your mind, what is the current reputation of SIPA? I thought it was high enough already. Is there more room for improvement in the reputation department? Just out of curiosity, how widespread is the notion that SIPA is the safety school for those who did not make it to HKS or WWS?

Also, I'm interested in hearing more about what you like about the IFEP track.

Edited March 24, 2010 by econhawk

[Bastille]

Bastille, in your mind, what is the current reputation of SIPA? I thought it was high enough already. Is there more room for improvement in the reputation department? Just out of curiosity, how widespread is the notion that SIPA is the safety school for those who did not make it to HKS or WWS?

Also, I'm interested in hearing more about what you like about the IFEP track.

My personal belief is that these programs are all going to become far more prominent in the coming years, given the massive expansion of the federal government currently underway. During that time, I believe that the curricula will become more specialized, such that most reputable programs will have the entire first year mostly defined, and fairly quanty. (This is because of pressure to focus on marketable skills.)

Why do I like SIPA's IFEP track? Simple: it goes into substantially greater depth in finance/econ and stats than most (if not all) MBA programs, especially if one is inclined to complete both the International Finance and the Economic Policy tracks.

IFEP has an infrequently published newsletter: http://sipa.columbia...ter_Fall_09.pdf

In this, you will see two things that impressed me. 1) a professor essentially making the case that I just did about the rigor of IFEP, and 2) the list of employers attending a private IFEP function. Like, wow.

However, regarding the reputation of SIPA versus HKS: given the relatively small number of programs at the "top" of the selectivity pile for MPP/MPA programs, we can compile an impromptu preferences ranking. Consider that, according to admissions department websites, HKS yields about 65% (enrolling class is 65% of acceptance number). At SIPA, the number is closer to 33% -- respectable, but markedly lower. Consider that the yield loss at HKS is most likely due to underfunded cross admits who have been accepted at /matriculate to WWS, and you'll see that most with a choice are likely attending HKS over SIPA. Does this make HKS a "better" program than SIPA? Well, that's why I'm going to visit; I can't say.

(It's also unclear, I should note, how big the cross-applicant pool is -- that is, the percentage of HKS MPP applicants who also applied to SIPA. The programs market themselves in very different ways.)

[Knotty]

Ok.. i'm terrified of the huge financial debt that I'll incur if I choose to go to SIPA. Is it easy for SIPA graduates to get a job (esp for international students)?

[le_neocon]

I don't understand why SIPA is the only school that'll give you a financial load. Jobs for international students are going to be difficult to come by at all schools, including HKS, for sure. One advantage that SIPA has over SAIS is that being in NY and not DC ( where most jobs will be reserved for citizens ), it surely gives us a lot more options.

[socaljournalist]

It all depends on what you plan to pursue upon graduation (i.e., your expected salary upon graduation). If your goal is consulting/finance, then I wouldn't think twice about 100k debt. But, if you're uncertain about those jobs or see yourself at a multilateral org/non-profit/public sector position, then I think it's wiser to at least consider cheaper options or be aware that you will face years of paying off your large debt on a modest salary.

Ok.. i'm terrified of the huge financial debt that I'll incur if I choose to go to SIPA. Is it easy for SIPA graduates to get a job (esp for international students)?

[Knotty]

It all depends on what you plan to pursue upon graduation (i.e., your expected salary upon graduation). If your goal is consulting/finance, then I wouldn't think twice about 100k debt. But, if you're uncertain about those jobs or see yourself at a multilateral org/non-profit/public sector position, then I think it's wiser to at least consider cheaper options or be aware that you will face years of paying off your large debt on a modest salary.

I am thinking of going into public sector consulting but I'm sure whether it will be easy for international students to find a job (and hence whether i can pay the debt).

Anyway thanks for your advice!

[gezzloume]

I am thinking of going into public sector consulting but I'm sure whether it will be easy for international students to find a job (and hence whether i can pay the debt).

Anyway thanks for your advice!

Knotty, my best advice is to contact current students or even just SIPA's admission officers and ask them what the job prospects have been for international students who graduated from that program (and I would question about salary if its a concern). I also sought out to attend SIPA but alas I just couldn't add that much debt to my already large debt from undergrad but have since had to search for more affordable options. SIPA is a good school in my opinion but will it really give you that much advantage in securing a job with good pay over any other equally qualified graduate of another program?

Peace.

Edited March 26, 2010 by gezzloume

[avcmmarini]

Hello Everyone !

I`m super excited and troubled at the same time. First, Sipa admitted me without financial aid. But I recently received an e-mail granting me 20k. Since I`m coming straight from undergrad I do not have thata much money saved. I could probably gather 12k with parental assistance. But I would still need some money for living expenses and the rest of tuition. Since Iam international every possible loan possibility that I look into require an american or permanent resident as cosigner and I don`t know anyone that could help me with that.

How do international students find the money to attend SIPA? I really want to go there, but I may find myself letting their offer go and end up going to europe where I got scholarships and stipend. Although I really think that sipa would be the best option. If anybody has any info on how international students may get funding please let me know

Thanks !!!