Burned a Bridge - Can I rebuild?

[Guest]

I'm new here, and I'm hoping I can find help to this question.  I recently burned a critical bridge with a research mentor (spent 4 years in that person's lab as a post-bacc), and it was the only mentor whom I had published with (as a post-bacc for my undergraduate honor's thesis).  I have a prior mentor (spent only 1 year in that person's lab, but without a publishable paper) in a different but related field, and that person is retired and willing to write me a strong LOR (and I continue to have a great relationship with that person).  However, I won't be able to get an LOR from the mentor I burned bridges with (which is the only mentor I published with).  I plan to change sub-majors slightly, but it is still within a similar branch of a larger PhD system.  I won't mention specifics here, since the fields are relatively small in the PhD world.  I plan on applying for PhD programs in the next few years, so I have some time to form new relationships with new mentors, but I do not have much time as I am a non-traditional student (older aged).  I'm not a graduate student yet; I'm merely a post-bacc, as mentioned above, so I'm just barely starting out on this long road that has already lasted 3 years and counting.  I felt I wasted at least 2 of the 4 years in the lab with the mentor whom I had burned bridges with, and now I feel as though I'm in a rush to make up for that. How would I find new mentors?  How would I explain a lack of an LOR in an interview or in a personal statement?  Finally, I was wondering if it is possible to still work as a research assistant for at least one (if not two) mentors, and ask to work toward publication as a post-bacc, so as to increase competitiveness in the application process, and so as to "make up" for burning a bridge in the past.  I won't go into much detail about how I burned that bridge, but I will say that it is related to my mental illness.  I am currently seeking treatment for that mental illness, but I do not think it would be appropriate for me to mention that mental illness as an "excuse" for burning a bridge; in actuality, my burning a bridge was highly relational, not based on my work, as I produced good work.  I feel just awful about burning a bridge, but I also felt it necessary to burn that bridge because my mental illness was highlighted more than my actual work.  I did find a new mentor for professional development only, but I am not sure where it would head (as it is a brand new arrangement solely online and long-distance), or if I could use that person as a reference.  I'm open to any and all feedback, as well as questions where I lack clarity. Thank you for your time in advance.  

Edited October 23, 2018 by Guest

[p287]

It is a bit unclear as to what role your mental health played in this situation and how badly this bridge was burned. I will offer the following questions/suggestions. Any suggestions are just my personal opinion. Further clarification might help you get better responses.

1. Was this bridge burned because of your mentor's response to your mental illness or because your mental illness affected your ability to maintain the relationship? This could really affect how you address the situation. If your mental illness affected your ability to maintain the relationship, then I would recommend reaching out to your former mentor and genuinely trying to mend the fence. If the situation occurred because of your mentor's response to a mental illness, then you may be able to explain a lack of LOR by stating something like, "Dr. X's stance on a personal issue I was dealing with made it an unhealthy work environment." You would not need to bring up the details of your illness or the fact that you had a personal falling out. Realistically, though, you probably won't have to explain a lack of LOR from this person if you have other strong LORs to offer.

2. Was the "split" done professionally or was it an emotional/messy situation? When resigning from a position or confronting anyone in an academic setting, it should be done in much the same way as at a job: professionally. If your situation was handled professionally (ex. "Dr. X, I am resigning from this position effective January 1st") then I wouldn't be too concerned. If the issue was more emotionally charged, then it might be worth swallowing your pride and making a formal apology. Academia is a small world and your reputation is important. It's crucial that you be viewed as a mature and dependable student in your future applications. We all deal with situations in our life where we have to cut ties for some reason, so I would just try to ensure that this one was done as professionally as possible.

[Guest]

On 10/23/2018 at 6:12 PM, p287 said:

It is a bit unclear as to what role your mental health played in this situation and how badly this bridge was burned. I will offer the following questions/suggestions. Any suggestions are just my personal opinion. Further clarification might help you get better responses.

1. Was this bridge burned because of your mentor's response to your mental illness or because your mental illness affected your ability to maintain the relationship? This could really affect how you address the situation. If your mental illness affected your ability to maintain the relationship, then I would recommend reaching out to your former mentor and genuinely trying to mend the fence. If the situation occurred because of your mentor's response to a mental illness, then you may be able to explain a lack of LOR by stating something like, "Dr. X's stance on a personal issue I was dealing with made it an unhealthy work environment." You would not need to bring up the details of your illness or the fact that you had a personal falling out. Realistically, though, you probably won't have to explain a lack of LOR from this person if you have other strong LORs to offer.

2. Was the "split" done professionally or was it an emotional/messy situation? When resigning from a position or confronting anyone in an academic setting, it should be done in much the same way as at a job: professionally. If your situation was handled professionally (ex. "Dr. X, I am resigning from this position effective January 1st") then I wouldn't be too concerned. If the issue was more emotionally charged, then it might be worth swallowing your pride and making a formal apology. Academia is a small world and your reputation is important. It's crucial that you be viewed as a mature and dependable student in your future applications. We all deal with situations in our life where we have to cut ties for some reason, so I would just try to ensure that this one was done as professionally as possible.

On 10/23/2018 at 6:12 PM, p287 said:

It is a bit unclear as to what role your mental health played in this situation and how badly this bridge was burned. I will offer the following questions/suggestions. Any suggestions are just my personal opinion. Further clarification might help you get better responses.

1. Was this bridge burned because of your mentor's response to your mental illness or because your mental illness affected your ability to maintain the relationship? This could really affect how you address the situation. If your mental illness affected your ability to maintain the relationship, then I would recommend reaching out to your former mentor and genuinely trying to mend the fence. If the situation occurred because of your mentor's response to a mental illness, then you may be able to explain a lack of LOR by stating something like, "Dr. X's stance on a personal issue I was dealing with made it an unhealthy work environment." You would not need to bring up the details of your illness or the fact that you had a personal falling out. Realistically, though, you probably won't have to explain a lack of LOR from this person if you have other strong LORs to offer.

2. Was the "split" done professionally or was it an emotional/messy situation? When resigning from a position or confronting anyone in an academic setting, it should be done in much the same way as at a job: professionally. If your situation was handled professionally (ex. "Dr. X, I am resigning from this position effective January 1st") then I wouldn't be too concerned. If the issue was more emotionally charged, then it might be worth swallowing your pride and making a formal apology. Academia is a small world and your reputation is important. It's crucial that you be viewed as a mature and dependable student in your future applications. We all deal with situations in our life where we have to cut ties for some reason, so I would just try to ensure that this one was done as professionally as possible.

Thank you for replying.  

To answer the first question, it was both. 

Initially, my mentor played the role of part-therapist, part-mentor, and asked that I send him emails regarding my personal issues.  When I shared a lot of confidential information with him, he began judging me based on what I had shared about my past.  I only wanted to know how my diagnoses and then recovered issues would affect any future clinical training, but he didn't answer my question; instead, he was more curious about learning more about me and initially playing the role of therapist.  After about a year of this, I got worried about how my disclosure would affect his judgment on my work.  According to him, my work was great, but my emails were not.  I thought we had an understanding that my confidential information regarding my past mental illness (to be specific, my disclosure of dissociative identity disorder, PTSD, past traumas in the military, in adulthood life, and in childhood) would remain confidential and not part of any LOR info, but he had issue with that and with what I shared with him in emails.  I then asked him if I could not send him anymore personal emails of that nature, and he said okay.  But by then I was paranoid about the LOR and the confidential info I had already shared with him.  He was vague and distal, reduced my work in the lab, failed on his promises for two research projects I should have been on, lied to me, triangulated relationships, and segregated me from the lab and instead had me work from home.  He later said that he was working out his own "mother issues" with regards to me, which was another vague and odd statement coming from a professional.  Needless to say, our relationship was codependent and enmeshed.  

Additionally, he's also made fun of former graduate students (no longer present) who didn't complete the program when he was instructing his present graduate students about evaluating new interviewees who were spending the night at the graduate students' homes.  I thought such stories told about graduate students' mental illnesses and/or panic attacks were not appropriate and highly stigmatizing.  It sends a message from mentor to graduate students that it's okay to judge people based on their mental illnesses, as opposed to based on their work.  Spreading stigma or discriminating against interviewees based on any disclosures of anxiety or other mental or physical problems was not cool with me.  My response to multiple types of stigma was initially (1) keep silent but take all the blame and learn the ropes of how the field is, and then later, after about two years of this, (2) overly emotional and outspoken.  I never used curse words, but I did explain in many different ways what I felt from certain things he had said or allowed over the years, and my feelings regarding those issues.  He never apologized and tried to put all the blame on me.  I told him that I take a lot of the blame for being too open about my personal experiences, even though he asked me direct questions initially and to email him, but I felt that he had some responsibility in this, too, as my mentor and a person in a position of power.  I told him that I do not mean any ill will toward him and that I would never create waves for him, meaning, that what I have experienced with him will remain confidential, except for the time I did attempt to ask the director of his department to help mediate our situation, and except for when I'm in therapy, which is confidential.  I just wanted to leave, and so I did.  But I was hoping to leave with the kind of closure that would allow for mutual respect and sincere apologies, as opposed to his passive-aggressiveness and blame-game strategies with me.  It's a long story that I'm failing to keep short here, but this is the best I can explain it without giving away too much detail.  

I've also had subtle hints that I was too old to apply to PhD programs, even though I don't intend on going the tenure-track route at all; I plan on utilizing a PhD to conduct research with an external IRB or one that is within the government, since, as a disabled veteran, I have priority hiring.  I had no idea that there was this notion of PhD prioritizes young, tenure-track-primarily candidates.  I feel screwed in that regard, but that kind of stigma is widespread.  Still, I didn't need to experience ageism from a mentor or others at that institution. 

I've since gained a professional development mentor in clinical psychology, who shared an article with me about the POSITIVES on "wounded healers" (see Zerubavel & Wright, 2012, doi:10.1037/a0027824).  This new mentor was very encouraging about the need for added support for "wounded healers" entering clinical psychology PhD programs.  I didn't tell her much about my old mentor, and I most certainly would not go into as much detail as I am here, but the vague information I provided her prompted that article response.  I've also started seeing a new therapist to help me cope with the aftermath of this and to rehabilitate better for future graduate studies.  I do not plan on applying to clinical psychology PhD programs in the future, however.  I chose not to for many reasons, but I've decided to apply to PhD programs involving either a different branch of psychology or an interdisciplinary field that includes psychology.  

To answer your second question, we were BOTH EMOTIONAL and unprofessional in our ending with one another.  I never had the face-to-face exit interview with him, and everything was done via email.  We both were emotional in our email exchanges, which we both are supposedly going to delete and keep confidential.  We agreed to that, but I'm not sure if I can trust him.  I learned a very hard lesson here, but I felt sort of dragged into this since I had been disabled for over 14 years and barely trying to rehabilitate through higher education.  I thought I could trust a clinical psychology mentor, but I trusted him too much with my personal stuff.  I thought that if I explained enough details, that he would see my strengths with the work I put into his lab.  None of that mattered.  He had his opinion about me, and I now have help from other professionals in the field and from my own private therapists (I have more than one at the VA for different things I need help with), who have all steered me in a better direction.  Most of my therapists have told me to leave that situation, since it seemed toxic.  One therapist of mine had told me a story about how badly she was treated by a PhD supervisor, which paralleled my experiences.  Stigma does cause emotional distress among those without mental disorders (or recovered mental disorders), but when you have mental disorders that you're managing or have recovered from, it's easy to get retraumatized in such situations, and to fall back on bad habits.  I never cried in any of his lab meetings.  But I have cried privately in his office.  And our heated exchanges via email never included curse words, but they did include a lot of accusations on both of our parts.  He'd think this way about me, I'd defend my position and accuse him of thinking that way about me, and then I'd wind up blaming myself and apologizing over and over again, because he'd continue the same stigma-producing interactions over and over again.  It wasn't just me; I had therapists halfway through our relationship hear from me what I said to him and what he said to me, and I asked them to tell me what I was doing wrong.  Many of my therapists said that what he said in emails sounded very insulting or assuming or excuse-making (when falling back on promises), without any explanations or direct questions to me.  However, I was wrong in thinking that I should blame myself for everything - especially blame my mental illness on what was going on here.  It wasn't all about my mental illness, but it turned into that.  Gaslighting would be a term that I could use to describe the relationship my mentor and I had, and codependency another.  It was a problem with both of us, not just me and not just him.  It was toxic, and there was no resolve.  I thought I needed to stay all those years to pass his tests or whatever, since I didn't know much about the field at that time.  Thankfully, a previous mentor I had worked with in a different field (not psychology) said that he would still write me a LOR.  I was even vague with my previous mentor about the dealings with this recent mentor.  My new professional development mentor is helping me move forward.  Thus, this was not a "pervasive" problem with me, but rather an isolated problem with just that one very biased mentor. 

Academia is a small world, but I'm planning to move out of state and pursue different but related PhD programs.  I'm also planning on gaining new research experiences in different venues, so that this recent experience is in the background.  At least I have the backing of a non-psychology mentor and a new professional development mentor to help me move forward, though I do need to find a new research mentor to work with.  That's going to be the challenge at this point in my post-bacc life.  

Anyway, thank you for your advice.  I will never make the same mistakes twice, and I have learned where I had failed in this.  All I can do now is move forward with some healing and dignity.  

 

 

 

[ResilientDreams]

3 hours ago, Multinomial said:

Thank you for replying.  

To answer the first question, it was both. 

Initially, my mentor played the role of part-therapist, part-mentor, and asked that I send him emails regarding my personal issues.  When I shared a lot of confidential information with him, he began judging me based on what I had shared about my past.  I only wanted to know how my diagnoses and then recovered issues would affect any future clinical training, but he didn't answer my question; instead, he was more curious about learning more about me and initially playing the role of therapist.  After about a year of this, I got worried about how my disclosure would affect his judgment on my work.  According to him, my work was great, but my emails were not.  I thought we had an understanding that my confidential information regarding my past mental illness (to be specific, my disclosure of dissociative identity disorder, PTSD, past traumas in the military, in adulthood life, and in childhood) would remain confidential and not part of any LOR info, but he had issue with that and with what I shared with him in emails.  I then asked him if I could not send him anymore personal emails of that nature, and he said okay.  But by then I was paranoid about the LOR and the confidential info I had already shared with him.  He was vague and distal, reduced my work in the lab, failed on his promises for two research projects I should have been on, lied to me, triangulated relationships, and segregated me from the lab and instead had me work from home.  He later said that he was working out his own "mother issues" with regards to me, which was another vague and odd statement coming from a professional.  Needless to say, our relationship was codependent and enmeshed.  

Additionally, he's also made fun of former graduate students (no longer present) who didn't complete the program when he was instructing his present graduate students about evaluating new interviewees who were spending the night at the graduate students' homes.  I thought such stories told about graduate students' mental illnesses and/or panic attacks were not appropriate and highly stigmatizing.  It sends a message from mentor to graduate students that it's okay to judge people based on their mental illnesses, as opposed to based on their work.  Spreading stigma or discriminating against interviewees based on any disclosures of anxiety or other mental or physical problems was not cool with me.  My response to multiple types of stigma was initially (1) keep silent but take all the blame and learn the ropes of how the field is, and then later, after about two years of this, (2) overly emotional and outspoken.  I never used curse words, but I did explain in many different ways what I felt from certain things he had said or allowed over the years, and my feelings regarding those issues.  He never apologized and tried to put all the blame on me.  I told him that I take a lot of the blame for being too open about my personal experiences, even though he asked me direct questions initially and to email him, but I felt that he had some responsibility in this, too, as my mentor and a person in a position of power.  I told him that I do not mean any ill will toward him and that I would never create waves for him, meaning, that what I have experienced with him will remain confidential, except for the time I did attempt to ask the director of his department to help mediate our situation, and except for when I'm in therapy, which is confidential.  I just wanted to leave, and so I did.  But I was hoping to leave with the kind of closure that would allow for mutual respect and sincere apologies, as opposed to his passive-aggressiveness and blame-game strategies with me.  It's a long story that I'm failing to keep short here, but this is the best I can explain it without giving away too much detail.  

I've also had subtle hints that I was too old to apply to PhD programs, even though I don't intend on going the tenure-track route at all; I plan on utilizing a PhD to conduct research with an external IRB or one that is within the government, since, as a disabled veteran, I have priority hiring.  I had no idea that there was this notion of PhD prioritizes young, tenure-track-primarily candidates.  I feel screwed in that regard, but that kind of stigma is widespread.  Still, I didn't need to experience ageism from a mentor or others at that institution. 

I've since gained a professional development mentor in clinical psychology, who shared an article with me about the POSITIVES on "wounded healers" (see Zerubavel & Wright, 2012, doi:10.1037/a0027824).  This new mentor was very encouraging about the need for added support for "wounded healers" entering clinical psychology PhD programs.  I didn't tell her much about my old mentor, and I most certainly would not go into as much detail as I am here, but the vague information I provided her prompted that article response.  I've also started seeing a new therapist to help me cope with the aftermath of this and to rehabilitate better for future graduate studies.  I do not plan on applying to clinical psychology PhD programs in the future, however.  I chose not to for many reasons, but I've decided to apply to PhD programs involving either a different branch of psychology or an interdisciplinary field that includes psychology.  

To answer your second question, we were BOTH EMOTIONAL and unprofessional in our ending with one another.  I never had the face-to-face exit interview with him, and everything was done via email.  We both were emotional in our email exchanges, which we both are supposedly going to delete and keep confidential.  We agreed to that, but I'm not sure if I can trust him.  I learned a very hard lesson here, but I felt sort of dragged into this since I had been disabled for over 14 years and barely trying to rehabilitate through higher education.  I thought I could trust a clinical psychology mentor, but I trusted him too much with my personal stuff.  I thought that if I explained enough details, that he would see my strengths with the work I put into his lab.  None of that mattered.  He had his opinion about me, and I now have help from other professionals in the field and from my own private therapists (I have more than one at the VA for different things I need help with), who have all steered me in a better direction.  Most of my therapists have told me to leave that situation, since it seemed toxic.  One therapist of mine had told me a story about how badly she was treated by a PhD supervisor, which paralleled my experiences.  Stigma does cause emotional distress among those without mental disorders (or recovered mental disorders), but when you have mental disorders that you're managing or have recovered from, it's easy to get retraumatized in such situations, and to fall back on bad habits.  I never cried in any of his lab meetings.  But I have cried privately in his office.  And our heated exchanges via email never included curse words, but they did include a lot of accusations on both of our parts.  He'd think this way about me, I'd defend my position and accuse him of thinking that way about me, and then I'd wind up blaming myself and apologizing over and over again, because he'd continue the same stigma-producing interactions over and over again.  It wasn't just me; I had therapists halfway through our relationship hear from me what I said to him and what he said to me, and I asked them to tell me what I was doing wrong.  Many of my therapists said that what he said in emails sounded very insulting or assuming or excuse-making (when falling back on promises), without any explanations or direct questions to me.  However, I was wrong in thinking that I should blame myself for everything - especially blame my mental illness on what was going on here.  It wasn't all about my mental illness, but it turned into that.  Gaslighting would be a term that I could use to describe the relationship my mentor and I had, and codependency another.  It was a problem with both of us, not just me and not just him.  It was toxic, and there was no resolve.  I thought I needed to stay all those years to pass his tests or whatever, since I didn't know much about the field at that time.  Thankfully, a previous mentor I had worked with in a different field (not psychology) said that he would still write me a LOR.  I was even vague with my previous mentor about the dealings with this recent mentor.  My new professional development mentor is helping me move forward.  Thus, this was not a "pervasive" problem with me, but rather an isolated problem with just that one very biased mentor. 

Academia is a small world, but I'm planning to move out of state and pursue different but related PhD programs.  I'm also planning on gaining new research experiences in different venues, so that this recent experience is in the background.  At least I have the backing of a non-psychology mentor and a new professional development mentor to help me move forward, though I do need to find a new research mentor to work with.  That's going to be the challenge at this point in my post-bacc life.  

Anyway, thank you for your advice.  I will never make the same mistakes twice, and I have learned where I had failed in this.  All I can do now is move forward with some healing and dignity.  

 

 

 

Wait... I'm butting in here but...it seems unprofessional and an abuse of power that he asked you for information regarding your mental illness in the first place, especially in an email format which is inherently not confidential. It's also highly inappropriate that he uses students' mental illness to ridicule them. I'm not sure what the best course of action is, but this sounds like something that should be reported somewhere.  

[Guest]

On 12/29/2018 at 5:30 AM, ResilientDreams said:

Wait... I'm butting in here but...it seems unprofessional and an abuse of power that he asked you for information regarding your mental illness in the first place, especially in an email format which is inherently not confidential. It's also highly inappropriate that he uses students' mental illness to ridicule them. I'm not sure what the best course of action is, but this sounds like something that should be reported somewhere.  

You know, I told him in an email that I felt he was abusing his power, but then he turned it back on me and said that he was afraid that I was going to tell all of his colleagues about our interactions, as if to get him into trouble.  I assured him that I would never do that, and that I felt I was the one who was afraid of whatever he could say or do based on the intimate details I told him about my life and my mental illness.  I even said that our confidentiality agreement wasn't supposed to be filtered into how he saw me perform in his lab, which he states I performed great most times, but not with him.  I told him that I never had problems with my other research mentor in criminal justice, but that I've also never disclosed (nor will ever disclose) the details I told him.  He never warned me that emails were not confidential, and now I'm embarrassed and ashamed.  Did I just lose everything I worked so hard for?  I mean, I earned straight A's and graduated summa cum laude, and I was a member of many honor societies.  I even won a Kennedy Award, among other honor society awards.  I'm saddened that, at my age, in my 40s, I didn't know enough to see that this was inappropriate.  I thought that it was required of clinical psych programs, so I spilled my heart out.  I suppose that I wanted approval or something, but then it felt like gaslighting when every evaluation was about my mental illness and lack of therapeutic support at the VA, or lack of what he would think would be progress with him.  I even took the blame when I asked the chair of his department to mediate; I said that I was struggling with my own mental illness (PTSD), so I assumed that disclosing information to him was required for preparing for future clinical training.  I didn't want to get my mentor into trouble.  And I also didn't want him to continue to blame me for his burnout.  He finally admitted that he held me back and that I was right in that his burnout wasn't my fault, but he never said the words, "I'm sorry," which is mostly what I was looking for.  All I wanted, if not a letter, was for me and him to patch things up, and for him to hear my laments.  I wanted him to assure me that he approached this incorrectly, and that I could probably excel with the new mentors I have now.  I'm very heartbroken, and now dealing with transference issues that arose from my interactions with my mentor.  Disclosing all of those details, per his initial requests, meant to me that I had to keep explaining myself because I felt embarrassed or taken aback when he would react negatively to them.  By negative reactions, I mean that he would take away assignments we were supposed to work on together, or he would ask me to just work from home the following semester, or he would just give me the silent treatment for weeks.  Instead of meeting face to face to discuss these things, I was left confused at home about all of this.  To this day he thinks that I wanted him to be my therapist, and in the end, I admitted things I don't think I should have admitted because they weren't really true.  I just wanted a research mentor who could help me explain how clinical training would be challenging for someone like me, that's all.  I didn't want to admit that I wanted him to be my therapist, but I did, for the sake of not getting him into trouble.  Then, I took the blame for everything, even though my external therapists at the VA have told me that it wasn't all my fault.  I felt transference because I saw him as an "abusive ex-therapist" who acted in a similar passive-aggressive, codependent fashion as he did.  He wanted me to have empathy for him and his "mother issues" he claimed he was dealing with me, and I wanted him to understand where I was coming from in terms of being older, in the process of rehabilitation, and desiring to give some part of myself to society through research.  Now, I'm afraid that he will retaliate in some way, or act impulsively by spreading rumors about me so that I don't pursue any research.  As it is, I've given up on the clinical psych career completely; this has all shown me that I'm not cut out for this.  But the research I love, and according to a more healthier criminal justice mentor I had worked with prior to the clinical psych mentor, I can pursue victimology research or other research in criminal justice/criminology instead.  But I've lost nearly four years and my reputation in the clinical psych lab.  I don't know what I could have done, because I was inadvertently threatened to remain silent about this.  It feels like an abuse of power, but I was made to believe that it was my mental illness talking.  I just want to grieve over my losses and figure out a way to make this easier for not only me, but also him.  How sad is that? I have no idea what to do.