Yale (MS) vs. Carnegie Mellon (PhD with full funding), help!!!

[zhao22]

so I've been struggling in the past week trying to figure out where to go, I guess now I am really deciding between the master program from Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies (FES), and a PhD program from CMU's Engineering and Public Policy (EPP).

I am hoping to working in sustainable energy field after graduate school, and the CMU program would probably provide me with a relatively easy path to do so: 4 - 4.5 years to get a PhD and works on policy analysis on energy issues with technical background; the fact that it offers tuition wavier and a full stipend is really tempting! But then comes the offer from Yale, the Forestry school is among the top environmental programs in the country. It supposes to have a excellent faculty and student body, and a strong alumni network. I will get to spend two years to explore different environmental topics before continuing to pursuing a PhD or entering the workforce directly. Even though I can't really study "energy" specifically in Yale FES, they do have a very strong focus on industrial ecology, which to some extent encompass energy topics.

So I think it really comes down to 3 questions, in addition to the fact that I have to pay for my living expenses at Yale, but none for CMU.

1, the name: CMU is a great school, particularly in engineering and science, but overall it does not have the prestige that Yale enjoys as a top Ivy. You guys probably see this question al lot here, but does big name like Yale really help for one's future career? Will I get access to a better network of students, faculty, and alumni if I decide to go to Yale? Are Yale and CMU really that different in their levels of prestige?

2, direction: I am a senior in college right now, so even though I know I want to work on sustainable energy, it is rather broad and I have no idea what exactly I want to study or work on in the future. Thus, in this case, Yale may give me an additional 2-years to try on different courses and projects and help me figure out where my true passion lays? or I can go dive directly in the PhD program in CMU and just wait and say where the project will lead me?

3, time: CMU is 4 to 4.5 years, so I will be ready for the "real world" with my PhD when I am 27-28. Yale's master program is 2 years, from what I gathered it is hard to continue on with a PhD at FES, so if I decided to pursue a PhD somewhere else that means I will be in school for another 4-5 years. It seems like a lot of time investment if I decide to go to Yale. So in the end it is also a choice between 4 yr vs. 7 yr of schooling.

What do you guys think? How should I balance between the 3 questions (or any additional concerns)? Which to you maybe more important?

Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rising_star]

Seriously? You're willing to go $90K in debt to get a MA from Yale?

[Sassytune]

Seriously? You're willing to go $90K in debt to get a MA from Yale?

This.

If you feel you are unlikely to do PhD later and would be happy with just a Masters' then Yale is okay, if you can finance yourself - $90K <gulp!>

CMU has good creds., I think - though I am not in your field, so perhaps don't have all the info. You will not have to choose a research topic right away at CMU, I don't think - so you will have at least the first year to decide on a research topic - so your second point is perhaps addressed.

[zhao22]

Seriously? You're willing to go $90K in debt to get a MA from Yale?

I did get some FA from Yale, so I probably have to finance total $30k for the two years master.

[zhao22]

This.

If you feel you are unlikely to do PhD later and would be happy with just a Masters' then Yale is okay, if you can finance yourself - $90K <gulp!>

CMU has good creds., I think - though I am not in your field, so perhaps don't have all the info. You will not have to choose a research topic right away at CMU, I don't think - so you will have at least the first year to decide on a research topic - so your second point is perhaps addressed.

at this point I do hope to get a PhD eventually. about the research topic, I just feel it would be pretty confined if I enter the PhD program at CMU right away, but will get a much broader exposure at Yale. It really bothers me!

[Jae B.]

Hmm, to me, the fact that you're considering an MS over a fully-funded PhD opportunity at Carnegie Mellon says maybe you don't really want a PhD -- at least not yet.

[rising_star]

I did get some FA from Yale, so I probably have to finance total $30k for the two years master.

Is that for tuition or does it include living costs as well?

Hmm, to me, the fact that you're considering an MS over a fully-funded PhD opportunity at Carnegie Mellon says maybe you don't really want a PhD -- at least not yet.

You know, this is a good point. I think you might find a PhD has more options than you think but, if you're having doubts then you probably should go with the master's for now. Yale's program is very well-regarded.

[zhao22]

Is that for tuition or does it include living costs as well?

You know, this is a good point. I think you might find a PhD has more options than you think but, if you're having doubts then you probably should go with the master's for now. Yale's program is very well-regarded.

it includes the estimated living costs, so it is not too bad. but I do hope to get a PhD eventually. the Yale program may give me more options to apply for other PhD programs, but that would be another 4-5 years of schooling...

[juilletmercredi]

If you hope to get a PhD eventually, go with the PhD program. Carnegie Mellon is a well-respected school and the small perceived advantage that Yale would give you isn't worth the extra $30,000 in debt IMO, especially if you have undergraduate debt, and especially given that you'd only have to apply for PhD programs again in 2 years and go through this whole process all over again. You'd be gunning for the same end result, but with more debt in MS scenario than the PhD scenario, and that doesn't make sense.

FWIW I was confronted by a similar conundrum. 1/2 tuition scholarship at the #7 school of public health for an MPH and full funding for 3-years at the #6 school of public health. I thought I wasn't "sure" that I wanted to get a PhD and might want some years to explore and work and yadda yadda. When I examined myself more deeply, I realized that I was honestly just afraid of the proposition of the long haul for 5 years - I really, really wanted a doctoral degree, it was my goal and dream, but I was somehow afraid that I was mistakenly admitted and that I wouldn't be able to cut it here. Once I realized that (and a visit helped allay those fears) I cut the doubts and accepted this offer. 2 years later I'm happy and have absolutely no regrets.

I also think that you're mistaken about the research exposure in a PhD program v. an MA/MS program. While you are expected to have your research ideas a little bit more fleshed out when you enter a PhD program, there's nothing written anywhere that your interests can't change and expand and refine in your period in grad school, and indeed - they do for most students. They're SUPPOSED to, as you receive more training, read widely in your field, network and find out exactly where the gaps are and where you want to dig your research niche wrt to the literature and the researchers in the field. You'll have opportunities to explore different research topics in grad school (within a general area) and form collaborations. Unless you are completely unsure about what you want to study, it's pretty flexible.

I repeat - if you know you want to get a PhD eventually in your heart of hearts, go for the CMU offer. CMU is a very well respected school and you should not have problems getting a position in that field with a CMU degree.

[mathmann]

I would go for the PhD. While a Yale degree may be somewhat tempting, you will likely be able to show once you enter industry that you are just as competitive as a Yale grad. Furthermore, you aren't getting a PhD from Yale! You may end up finding that you would have to go to a school with the same prestige as CMU even after going into debt at Yale.

[shakespearebro]

I think PhD or nothing. First, always go with the funding, so that is a clear choice in my book for the PhD program over a pile of debt for a Masters degree. Second, though, I also hear what some of the earlier posters are saying about your ambivalence. Maybe you shouldn't dive into a PhD program only half-heartedly. So my advice would be don;t go to Yale. Either go to the PhD program or take a breath and reconsider what you want to do with your life.

[pajarero]

Hi zhao, I'll comment because I'm also admitted to the MEM program at Yale's FES for this fall and I'm more than 90% certain I'll go there. The PhD and the MEM serve completely different goals. The PhD will take you directly into the depths of scientific research in your field. If you want to work on energy issues at a very high level and are interested eventually in a post-doc positions, working in a government lab, in industry, running research programs, or becoming a professor, the PhD is absolutely your best option. CMU is a fantastic school for technologically advanced research. I don't know if CMU requires you to already have a main advisor, but that can probably change after a year or two of exploring your interests.

The Yale MEM is not a research-oriented master's. It's meant to give interdisciplinary training in a wide variety of subjects relevant to modern environmental problems (ecology, earth science, social ecology, policy, economics, development, water, etc.). Lots of flexibility is given to focus on one or more of those areas for an internship or short research project. It's great for people who have at least a few years of work experience, want to work in the environmental field, but don't necessarily have the academic exposure to get the job or salary they want. It opens doors to work in environmental consulting, government agencies, conservation NGO's, international agencies (e.g. World Bank) or all kinds of things. I've seen some stats: most people work, and in 2008, only 3.3% of MEM grads continued immediately on to further study.

Of course you'll need to make the best decision based on your goals, but I wish the best in this process. Hope this might be helpful information.

[pajarero]

Sorry zhao, but I made an assumption. Are you admitted to Yale's MEM (master's of environmental management) or MESc (master's of environmental science) program? The MESc is a bit more research-oriented and requires a thesis, whereas the MEM requires a more flexibly-defined master's project.

[ohtheanxiety]

I would not get a PhD unless you are 100% certain that you want to become an academic researcher or professor in the sustainable energy field. A PhD in a science or engineering field is only really good for working in academia, and if you want to work in industry, an NGO, or government, you risk being percieved as simultaneoulsly both overqualified and having no experience (because you went from undergrad to grad school). The funding may be tempting but I would talk to folks at both programs to see what is a better fit for your long term goals. If you do go for the PhD program, I recommend finding someone who will be an understanding mentor (prof or other PhD) because the transition from undergrad to PhD level work/research can be quite overwhelming.

[Yang]

CMU policy is pretty strong, if you're serious about research, don't pass up the PhD for a cash cow master's program

[narius]

Congrats!

This one, unlike many others, is a no-brainer if you're serious about getting a PhD and doing research. CMU. Among those whose opinion will matter, CMU will actually give you more credibility. To distant relatives and old acquaintances from High School, yes, Yale will mean more, but that really shouldn't matter. It's like passing up a PhD from Chicago for a MPS degree from Cornell.

[LucKy_StriKe]

I was in CMU for a bit and can answer some of your questions.

1. CMU's undergrads and grads have as much confidence, pride and weightage as any Ivy League university for the engineering departments. The students and faculty too are pretty cool and well qualified, if you want to go on to work in a sustainable energy company afterwards, this would be a really strong option to join.

2. The policy changes from school to school and program to program but you can sometimes reach qualification and get out of the program with a masters if you're unsure that you want to continue(of course you'll have to pay back all the funding you received and anything else mentioned in the contract). Do inquire about it from your admissions dept.Many students have this question so i'm sure they'll have an answer immediately.

3.thats a design choice that you'll have to decide upon

Edited May 4, 2010 by LucKy_StriKe