What are some advantages and disadvantages of a 3-4 year PhD vs a 5-7 year PhD?

[W. V. O. Quinine]

Hi all,

I thought this might be a helpful discussion to have. I'm planning on applying to PhD programs for commencement in 2020 and was curious what ya'll think.

What are some advantages/disadvantages of doing a European/Australasian style PhD, which typically takes 3-4 years, rather than an American style PhD which typically takes 5-7 years? Here are some advantages I can think of:

• Less opportunity cost. If you get a PhD in 3ish years and either decide to leave academia or don't get a suitable academic job, you'll be younger and (presumably) more flexible about other options.
• You get to go straight into research rather than worrying about coursework. Granted, some non-US/non-Canadian places do require a bit of coursework in the first year (LSE, for example), but it seems to be mostly proseminars and things like that. Of course, going straight into research could be a disadvantage for those who feel underprepared. In my own case, I have a research-MA and an honours degree with a substantive research component, so I'm not worried about diving straight in.
• Relatedly, you can focus solely on the areas of philosophy that interest you. Most places don't seem to have the same sorts of distribution requirements as US universities do, e.g. there's none of this 'take 2 courses in metaphysics and epistemology, 2 courses in the history of philosophy, 1 course in logic, 1 foreign language' business. Again, this might be a disadvantage for some.

Disadvantages of a 3-4 year PhD:

• Less time to publish, which is primarily what will get you a job.
• Concerns about being over-specialized or niche. I'm not sure how much of an issue this really is, but it seems as though coursework requirements might help one become a more well-rounded philosopher.
• The application process adds a layer of stress that isn't there in US-style applications: the research proposal and finding a supervisor. Most European and Australasian PhD programs require applicants to draft a research proposal and sometimes secure the support of a prospective adviser prior to applying. In most cases you probably can't just use a generic research proposal - you'll need to tailor it to each department's strengths. This is in addition to everything else (writing sample, LoR, SoP, etc). Of course, the GRE isn't required, so maybe it balances out.

Would be great to hear what everyone thinks!

[maxhgns]

Honestly, I don't think that shorter PhDs do anyone much of a service in the current market. You need time to publish, to teach (and more than just one or two courses), to conference and cultivate your subfield network, to learn about the profession, to get ready for the job market (including grant applications), and to broaden your understanding of the field.

All that takes time. 

And it's worth noting that the UK/Australasian markets are incredibly difficult for fresh PhDs. There aren't many jobs, and when they apply across the pond they're competing against fresh PhDs (not to mention oodles of stales!) who have had a lot more time to prepare themselves along all these dimensions. All of the new UK/Australasian PhDs I've met have been great and incredibly talented. But not having more time makes it all pretty hard for them.

 

[Marcus_Aurelius]

Also take funding into account in your calculation. My impression is that many shorter programs also don't have as-good funding as many North American programs do, though I imagine it varies widely, so you can comoare the odds of getting good funding at the individual programs you're interested in.

[Glasperlenspieler]

Do note that almost all (if not all) European-style PhD programs require an MA or the equivalent for admission. American PhD programs, on the other hand, more or less have an MA program built into the first 2-3 years of the PhD program. In other words, if you are considering grad school from the position of having a BA, the choice of going to an MA and then a European-style PhD program is only going to be marginally quicker (if at all) than going straight to an American PhD program. 

Edit: I skipped over the part where the OP mentions that they already have an MA. My point still stands but is perhaps less relevant for the OP.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Glasperlenspieler

[Duns Eith]

Many programs that are 5-7 years allow for transfer credit, e.g., from an MA. This effectively means either an easier time, or you can finish earlier, or you must finish earlier.

In my case, I have transferred my MA credits over, so that it reduced a full year and a half of coursework. This is important to me because my funding is not as long as other programs (4 years) - so, not only do I have the ability to finish sooner, it also is in my interest to finish sooner.

Basically, if you want to finish in 3-4 years, then you can probably still do that at a 5-7 PhD if you already have an MA. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Duns Eith

[Duns Eith]

P.S.

Regarding opportunity cost - what makes you think you have to decide to leave academia at the end of the PhD? You can quit in 3 years at either institution