Is it worth applying to a PhD program just to see what happens?

[thepeeps]

I'm currently completing my Masters in English (Rhetoric/Writing focused), and did my Bachelor's in English as well (Rhetoric/Writing focus).  I have a very strong application, enjoy research/teaching since I'm doing that as part of my Masters funding, my GRE scores are the weakest part of my application.  For awhile I wanted to apply to PhD programs but many people discouraged me because of the job market.  But I'm still kind of thinking "what if".  Is it worth it to just apply to one school to see what happens?  I don't want to be one of those people that asks "Is it true the job market for academia is really that bad?" but at the same time, I kind of want to take the chance and see.  If I don't get accepted then I can go into industry.  But I don't know if I should take a leap and apply to more schools, or if I'm just being silly since I'm only thinking of one school should I just forget about it. 

 

Has anyone been in this position before?  I feel like my professors know better, and them telling me how bad it is is to find a job makes me feel like I'm going against them. 

[punctilious]

Your professors are being honest, which is good. The job market is that bad. So you have to acknowledge and confront that fact head-on. If you understand that and still want to spend the next 5+ years in an English PhD program, despite the low wages and minimal job opportunities, you are ultimately the only person who can decide what you want to do with your life. I don't recommend going into it if you aren't totally sure it is what you want. It's not a decision to be taken lightly. It's a massive undertaking for very possibly little gain in terms of career. If you would be happy outside of academia, I recommend exploring those options.

[Warelin]

I think @punctiliousdoes a great job of explaining the decisions that goes into applying to graduate programs. I would like to add that even if you did everything right, there is still a possibility that you can spend 6 years (or more) in a graduate program  (at any college) and walk away with 0 job offers even if you publish in the best journals and do well in your program. It happens every year no matter where the person graduates from.

 

On 10/28/2019 at 2:14 PM, thepeeps said:

enjoy research/teaching since I'm doing that as part of my Masters funding

There are many professions that benefit from the skills one learns from graduate-level research (which includes archiving) as well as from teaching. Many of these positions wouldn't require you to constantly attend conferences, be pressured to publish constantly, worry about not obtaining tenureship and move again (if you can land a tenure-track position),  or be involved with multiple committees. It's likely that Professors spend 60-80 hours of the week working. In order to be really successful, you have to want to do nothing else and then be okay with failure. If this sounds like you, I'd recommend applying but realize that being a professor is more than just teaching/researching.

 

On 10/28/2019 at 2:14 PM, thepeeps said:

but many people discouraged me because of the job market. 

Who are these people that are discouraging you? Are they professors or someone else? Have your professors encouraged you to consider applying to grad schools? Have they discouraged you? If they've discouraged you, I probably wouldn't consider asking them for a recommendation letter for grad school.

[onerepublic96]

I may be assuming wildly here, since I don't know the actual content and tone of your conversations with the people you say discouraged you, but I wonder if discouragement is really what they were attempting to get across. You'll be hard-pressed to find any English (or even humanities more broadly) professor at any institution right now who would say 'go right ahead, of course, do the PhD, you won't regret it' and anyone who would say so would be acting irresponsibly. The truth is that the job market is that bad. Your professors and/or advisors have a duty to make sure you're aware of that. Whether or not that amounts to discouragement will depend on your own feelings. 

Would you regret spending 6 years in school if you come out the other side with no job prospects in academia? Will you feel you wasted your time? 

The reality is harsh, and you have to make sure you go into your decision with appropriate expectations. Ultimately, whether it's worth it—regardless of the outcome—is a decision only you can make. 

[thepeeps]

21 hours ago, Warelin said:

Who are these people that are discouraging you? Are they professors or someone else? Have your professors encouraged you to consider applying to grad schools? Have they discouraged you? If they've discouraged you, I probably wouldn't consider asking them for a recommendation letter for grad school.

They are my professors.  They all 100% think I'm a great student and would write me a letter of rec if I asked (they all have told me this, whether it was for a job or for a PhD application).  They only discouraged me because of the job market, not because I'm not a great student. 

[Warelin]

46 minutes ago, thepeeps said:

They are my professors.  They all 100% think I'm a great student and would write me a letter of rec if I asked (they all have told me this, whether it was for a job or for a PhD application).  They only discouraged me because of the job market, not because I'm not a great student. 

I never said you weren't a great student. However, Academia requires you to be more than that. It requires you to be unafraid of the job market. It requires you to be okay with possibly not being able to attend everything you want to attend. It requires you to be okay with living on a limited income. It requires you to be okay with not having access to a retirement plan until later. It requires you to value critique and advice even when it might not be what any of us want to hear. It requires you to be comfortable with rejection because we'll often hear more 'no' than 'yes'. (From applications, to conferences, to fellowships, to jobs) It also requires us to be find the right pace for ourselves, learn to say no, and realize that the majority of graduates will not land tenure-track jobs. It's important to realize that you'll need to be just as driven (if not more driven) to succeed as everyone else in order to stand a chance of surviving the job market. It cannot feel like a second choice and one can't apply to grad school because they're unsure of what they want to do next in life. Applications are draining but you'll want nothing more if it's the right choice for you. Only you can decide what's right for you but you also should know that being in a Ph.D. program is very different from being a great student in an MA program. If you're serious about applying, I'd advise you to have a serious conversation about it with your professors. It might be to your advantage to apply next year as otherwise you'd likely be competing with individuals who have spent their summer revising their SOPs and Writing Samples and who have had long conversations about "fit", college strengths and atmosphere, and their end goals with professors. Because you have (or will have) an MA degree, it's likely that schools will require you to have a deeper understanding of the field and it'll be to your advantage to demonstrate that as much as you possibly can.

[thepeeps]

2 hours ago, Warelin said:

I never said you weren't a great student. However, Academia requires you to be more than that. It requires you to be unafraid of the job market. It requires you to be okay with possibly not being able to attend everything you want to attend. It requires you to be okay with living on a limited income. It requires you to be okay with not having access to a retirement plan until later. It requires you to value critique and advice even when it might not be what any of us want to hear. It requires you to be comfortable with rejection because we'll often hear more 'no' than 'yes'. (From applications, to conferences, to fellowships, to jobs) It also requires us to be find the right pace for ourselves, learn to say no, and realize that the majority of graduates will not land tenure-track jobs. It's important to realize that you'll need to be just as driven (if not more driven) to succeed as everyone else in order to stand a chance of surviving the job market. It cannot feel like a second choice and one can't apply to grad school because they're unsure of what they want to do next in life. Applications are draining but you'll want nothing more if it's the right choice for you. Only you can decide what's right for you but you also should know that being in a Ph.D. program is very different from being a great student in an MA program. If you're serious about applying, I'd advise you to have a serious conversation about it with your professors. It might be to your advantage to apply next year as otherwise you'd likely be competing with individuals who have spent their summer revising their SOPs and Writing Samples and who have had long conversations about "fit", college strengths and atmosphere, and their end goals with professors. Because you have (or will have) an MA degree, it's likely that schools will require you to have a deeper understanding of the field and it'll be to your advantage to demonstrate that as much as you possibly can.

Totally sorry, sometimes over the Internet things get lost in communication and I apologize for the misunderstanding.  I will speak with them again.  Thank you.

[rhetoricus aesalon]

As the first person who has responded to your post who has actually been on the market, let me say: No, it is not that bad. It is worse. Far worse.

If you don’t want to believe your professors, then do your research and read the many, many people who were not as lucky as them and are suffering now because of their choice “to take a chance and see.” There is literally so much of it that it forms a genre: quit lit.