Stanford MA

[Flossifer]

In my “research” I rarely find any information regarding terminal MAs at schools that have full phd programs. Stanford also happens to be the school with the least information at all.

Does anyone know much about the program? How competitive it is to apply? If they have good placement? If masters students get any attention relative to phd students? 

Any insight would be awesome, especially if it comes from current students!!

Thanks
 

[hector549]

15 hours ago, Flossifer said:

In my “research” I rarely find any information regarding terminal MAs at schools that have full phd programs. Stanford also happens to be the school with the least information at all.

Does anyone know much about the program? How competitive it is to apply? If they have good placement? If masters students get any attention relative to phd students? 

Any insight would be awesome, especially if it comes from current students!!

Thanks
 

A number of the top schools have terminal MA programs. However, these are by and large cash-cow programs. They're used to generate revenue for the department and keep seminar enrollments high. It's not a good idea to go to such programs because the PhD students at such departments get all the faculty attention and department funding. Seminars will also be designed with the training and experience of PhD students in mind.

These programs get away with what is, to be candid, a predatory money grab because students will pay the exorbitant tuition, blinded by the Chicago/Stanford/etc. name, not realizing that they're being hoodwinked. In addition to the aforementioned programs, other egregious offenders include: Columbia, CUNY Grad Center, and NYU.

Apply to funded MA programs. There are plenty of good ones out there.

 

[Marcus_Aurelius]

In addition to Hector's important advice, cf. this thread from last year: 

 

[Flossifer]

They may not be funded, but neither are the top terminal programs (Tufts and Brandeis). If Stanford, Chicago, etc have extremely strong placement (though the absence of data may suggest otherwise), taking out loans to go there seems worth considering. That masters students don’t get attention is an idea I see thrown around a lot, but I haven’t seen many firsthand accounts of that experience.

[Glasperlenspieler]

Just now, Flossifer said:

They may not be funded, but neither are the top terminal programs (Tufts and Brandeis). If Stanford, Chicago, etc have extremely strong placement (though the absence of data may suggest otherwise), taking out loans to go there seems worth considering. 

Nope.

Tufts and Brandeis offer scholarships on a competitive basis. If you get one of those, then it may make sense to attend. Otherwise, you also shouldn't be going there. Same goes with NYU, Chicago, et al.

It's always a bad idea to take out loans for grad school in the humanities. A good MA is not a guarantee of getting into a PhD program. Furthermore, even if you do get into a PhD program, the job market is terrible and even if you do get a job, it's not likely to pay enough to allow you to pay off 50-100K+ in debt very quickly. Taking out loans for an MA in philosophy is just plain stupid. 

[Flossifer]

I’m not wholly convinced it CAN’T be worth it. Maybe not for most people, though I can see where it would be flawed thinking to expect that I would be the one person who it worked out for. I’d still like to here from people who actually went through those programs if they’re out there.

[Glasperlenspieler]

12 minutes ago, Flossifer said:

I’m not wholly convinced it CAN’T be worth it.

I think it "can" be worth it in a Lewisian sense. I just think that possible world is rather far away. In all seriousness though, I wouldn't dispute that some people have good experiences in such programs and get admitted to good PhD programs. But I'm not at all convinced that it's superior to the experience one would have at a funded MA program, and even if it were hands down the best MA in the world, it still wouldn't make sense to accrue that sort of debt. (If you're independently wealthy, do what you want.)

Granted, all my experience with these programs is second-hand (I do know several people who went through the MAPH program), so I can't help you much in that regard. But I will say one more thing: how transparent a program is about its placement record says a lot about the program. GSU (https://philosophy.gsu.edu/graduate/placement-record/) and UW-Milwaukee (https://uwm.edu/philosophy/graduate/graduate-placement/), for example, have commendably transparent placement records on their websites. If a program doesn't advertise this sort of information, it's probably because they don't want you to see it.

[Flossifer]

Was the experience with the MAPH programs negative across the board?

[hector549]

16 hours ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

Granted, all my experience with these programs is second-hand (I do know several people who went through the MAPH program), so I can't help you much in that regard. But I will say one more thing: how transparent a program is about its placement record says a lot about the program. GSU (https://philosophy.gsu.edu/graduate/placement-record/) and UW-Milwaukee (https://uwm.edu/philosophy/graduate/graduate-placement/), for example, have commendably transparent placement records on their websites. If a program doesn't advertise this sort of information, it's probably because they don't want you to see it.

This is important. These pay-to-play programs don't post placement because their purpose isn't to get students into good programs, their purpose is to make money. And their placement is undoubtedly poor as a result.

16 hours ago, Flossifer said:

Was the experience with the MAPH programs negative across the board?

I know several people who went to MAPH who got into PhD programs. This doesn't mean that going there is a good idea. For one thing, it is obscenely expensive. Check out the link; tuition for the one-year program is $60,300. Add another $15-20k to live in Chicago for a year, and you're looking at close to a six-figure investment for a program that doesn't even give you their complete placement history upfront. If you have a bunch of money and don't care about blowing it on a degree, at least go to Tufts or something, which has a tried-and-true placement record and will likely give you partial funding, even if it's limited. Though in my opinion also unnecessarily expensive and not worth it, compared to MAPH, Tufts almost looks like a bargain.

Edited November 6, 2019 by hector549

[Flossifer]

Sheesh that MAPH is rough. I’m not sure the lack of placement data indicates a bad record. It could also suggest that very few people matriculate and graduate. While UC isn’t a top 10 program, Stanford, Columbia, and CUNY are up there, and it seems highly unlikely that their placement could be subpar.

[John2]

NYU usually gives at least partial funding for their MA in Philosophy. In some cases they even give a full tuition remission.

[Flossifer]

Oh wow! That’s great to know!

[armchair_revolutionary]

I think there is a lot of trolling going on here.

[Flossifer]

I’m not trolling. Just trying to get a handle on the masters situation. The vast majority of the discussion in this forum is about PhD programs, understandably, and most of the information about Masters programs is guesswork.

[Glasperlenspieler]

On 11/7/2019 at 1:23 PM, Flossifer said:

The vast majority of the discussion in this forum is about PhD programs, understandably, and most of the information about Masters programs is guesswork.

I think you have this backwards. There's much less discussion about MA programs, in part, because the  advice there is much more transparent and less dependent on one's individual situation and interests: There are a number of MA programs that offer tuition waivers as well as a (small) stipend in return for teaching duties that also have a strong record of placing students into good PhD programs and offer a good, well-rounded philosophical education. Among these programs are Georgia State University, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Northern Illinois University, University of Houston, Michigan State, and some Canadian universities. Other programs offer partial or competitive funding, which can make sense if you receive such funding. MA admissions are not as competitive as PhD admissions, but they are still competitive, so it's a good idea to apply to a number of programs. Since an MA is typically a stepping stone towards a PhD program, fit is less important than the above factors (funding, placement, and well-rounded education). Going in to dept for an MA in philosophy does not make sense. 

[Duns Eith]

1 hour ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

Among these programs are Georgia State University, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Northern Illinois University, University of Houston, Michigan State, and some Canadian universities. 

Sorry but you're talking about MA programs with funding? I think you mean Western Michigan University, not MSU. And does University of Houston? I think you might mean Texas Tech or perhaps Texas A&M?

Maybe I am misunderstanding you.

[Glasperlenspieler]

5 hours ago, Duns Eith said:

Sorry but you're talking about MA programs with funding? I think you mean Western Michigan University, not MSU. And does University of Houston? I think you might mean Texas Tech or perhaps Texas A&M?

Maybe I am misunderstanding you.

Definitely meant Western Michigan University. I apologize for the mistake. As far as I understand it, Houston does fund most (if not all) it's MA students and has some pretty great philosophers as for as I'm concerned. I'd be more than happy to add Texas A&M to my list. I know less about Texas Tech.

 

Edit: Just checked A&M's website. They seem to have instituted a PhD program and discontinued the terminal MA?

Edited November 10, 2019 by Glasperlenspieler

[Duns Eith]

On 11/9/2019 at 7:12 PM, Glasperlenspieler said:

Definitely meant Western Michigan University. I apologize for the mistake. As far as I understand it, Houston does fund most (if not all) it's MA students and has some pretty great philosophers as for as I'm concerned. I'd be more than happy to add Texas A&M to my list. I know less about Texas Tech.

 

Edit: Just checked A&M's website. They seem to have instituted a PhD program and discontinued the terminal MA?

I knew they had a PhD program that they started like 6 years ago or something, but discontinuing the MA? This is news to me! "General admissions for the terminal MA program are no longer being accepted. "

Edited November 11, 2019 by Duns Eith