Level of relationship with advisor.

[euges116]

I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the "appropriate" level of relationship you should have with your advisor, be they same-sex or different-sex. Should they just be a mentor-type kind of person, or should they be more friendly? When I was on various campus tours when I first got admitted to a few places, I liked this one campus a lot, but I found out that the advisors go drinking with their students quite often, like once a month (in a advisor-student context, I think that's a lot!). I dunno, it just seemed like they were getting *too* friendly with each other, I wanted more "professionalism" in my advisor-student relationship, so I didn't go to the school. But I also want some social thing, just nothing to that extreme (which I felt it was). I'm wondering what your thoughts are?

[fuzzylogician]

The extent of the relationship really depends on the personality of the advisor and advisee and to some extent on the overall departmental culture. In my department we have parties in honor of our colloquium speakers (roughly every 2-3 weeks) where there is alcohol, and both the students and professors attend. No one is offended if someone doesn't come or doesn't drink and obviously conversations happen in small groups and you can simply talk to other grads if you're uncomfortable with talking to a professor who is holding a beer bottle. Personally I don't see the problem with having a cup of coffee or a beer with a professor, I don't think that has any effect on our mentoring relationship. Honestly, I'd be more worried if the professors and students at a department I was visiting had a cold distance thing going and really didn't get along than if I found out they occasionally went out for a beer together. That would suggest that the faculty view grad students as their inferiors and not as colleagues in training, which I think is worrisome.

[mudlark]

Hah! I deliberately chose my supervisor in part because he has a strong record of buying his grad students drinks. And also of publishing. It's probably more a matter of personality fit than professionalism. I have complete faith that my supervisor will be rigorous, available, organized, and highly competent as well as a total lush. I've been drinking much more regularly with my first reader, but that's because 1) I took a class with him and he knows me better than my supervisor does, 2) he's really young and brand new, so easier to talk to, and 3) he's an even harder drinker than my supervisor. I find going for drinks with him to be really useful, and really calming. He'll tell us about travel opportunities or scholarships we might now know about, talk through our projects and give honest feedback on them, reassure us about our output, clarify what's going to really matter when we're on the job market.... and now I'm making it sound like a professional development seminar in a bar, but this is all scattered through genuine conversation and a really fun evening. Hell, one of my best school friends literally came up with the core idea for his dissertation in a bar with this guy. It was all scribbled on a coaster.

All of which is to say that I can totally understand being uncomfortable drinking with supervisors, and I think it makes sense to pick a school and a supervisor who fit with your comfort level. Likewise, there are people who are comfortable with that set up, and can actually benefit a lot academically from it. I don't think there's anything more or less professional or appropriate about the latter. To each their own.

[rising_star]

I'm wondering what your thoughts are about the "appropriate" level of relationship you should have with your advisor, be they same-sex or different-sex. Should they just be a mentor-type kind of person, or should they be more friendly? When I was on various campus tours when I first got admitted to a few places, I liked this one campus a lot, but I found out that the advisors go drinking with their students quite often, like once a month (in a advisor-student context, I think that's a lot!). I dunno, it just seemed like they were getting *too* friendly with each other, I wanted more "professionalism" in my advisor-student relationship, so I didn't go to the school. But I also want some social thing, just nothing to that extreme (which I felt it was). I'm wondering what your thoughts are?

I don't think having a drink with one's advisor precludes one from having a professional relationship with him or her. My department has a weekly happy hour, and my advisor is one of four faculty members that attends regularly. By your definition, this would be extreme. I don't see this as a problem but, then again, the first time I met him was standing outside of a bar and he invited my friends and I inside and bought us a round of drinks. That said, I also meet with him in his office and have frank discussions about my research, progress, and plans.

The thing is, the professor doesn't just see you as a student but also as an extremely junior colleague. You will be peers and colleagues after you finish, so why not have a friendly relationship while you're in the program?

[Genomic Repairman]

My boss and I try to keep an arm's length distance away from each other. I do not overly gravitate towards sitting by him in meetings or seminars but afterwards in our weekly meetings we do discuss. Also I have shared a drink with him at social engagements and we make jokes but I know not to be above my station as the Brits would say. This seems to work well for me as I mostly need a mentor to help guide me through my project and impart his old-ass wisdom on me and less of a drinking buddy (I've got enough of those). In my department it seems that students who are clingers to their PI's tend to get a reputation of being needy and not being able to make it on their own without help. While this may not be true unfortunately in a lot of cases perception is reality.

[TMP]

It really, really, really depends on the person! Just order club soda with a lime if you have to

I would be in heaven if my future Ph.D. advisor would be anything like people have described here. I don't think it's lacking professionalism as rising_star pointed out. You're just a very junior colleague and they want to treat you as such. After all, you are going to be part of their field and you might as well start making connections and working on your social skills.

It's just unfortunate (in a way) that my past advisors haven't been able to do this kind of thing as they were chairs of their departments (= mountains of paperwork to do). But with other professors, I really enjoyed their company when we met up for coffee or lunch. As part of the conversation, they teach me how to become a professional in our field. Think of these happy hours and get-togethers in bars as a teaching/learning moment to become a professional. That's part of the reason why all-important white-collared people go for happy hours. Also, professors are probably going to be more apt to share information about their jobs, the academia, field, and anything relevant to you that you might not otherwise learn just sitting in their office chatting.

[Riotbeard]

I am no fan formality personally, so I love having a drink with a prof. As an undergrad, I was on a first name basis with most of my English profs, and the English Club went to happy hour unnofficially regularly with the caveat that if you were underage you did not drink. I was a bit more professional with my history professors, but even them, we went out to lunch and coffee etc. to discuss papers. These people all remain professional contacts, when I go back to my undergrad town, I always get a beer or lunch with profs. Last time I visited I saw more professors than "friends" (but a lot had moved). I also went to a beer festival with a professor, and maybe embarrassed myself (you go to five hour high grav festival and not get tanked).

I think that informality allows for a more close advisor relationship, and when people wrote my letters, they were able to speak about me personally and professionally. This is very true in an office also. My advisor at my PhD program commented that your letters helped you a lot because it was clear they really knew you (Of the four Americanists were I am going, I was only non-ivy league type person...). That level of comradery (sp?) can really help with professional networking, because so much of your professional impression is also personal chemistry (not romantic obviously). When the English Dept was recruiting a new prof, I was on the student committee thing, and there was one guy who was an amazing professor (he gave the best fake lecture) but was kind of a overprofessional dick, and he did not get hired because he did not fit with the cohort. I would view that informality as beneficial as long as it doesn't move from informal to innappropriate (which does not include getting hammered...).

[VictorianTess]

This may also be a matter of differences in different disciplines. I think that a level of informality is more common in the humanities. I don't see any problem with professors drinking with grad students, buy I also study literature. One of my co-workers recently mentioned a now-retired history professor who wouldn't work with students who wouldn't drink with him.

[oldlady]

The drinking question aside, I think it's important to maintain your own boundaries. Be friendly, have fun, go for drinks, whatever -- but do not believe that your advisor is, first and foremost, your friend. Your advisor is, first and foremost, your advisor -- if you screw up (or even, in some cases, express an opposing point of view in public), it doesn't matter how many times you've gone to the well together.

[Riotbeard]

<br /> One of my co-workers recently mentioned a now-retired history professor who wouldn't work with students who <i>wouldn't</i> drink with him.<br />

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Where is this guy and why did he retire?! haha!