Top programs?

[paulab]

Sorry my questions are a bit all over the place, but here I go:

I am not applying to PhD's this season but I wanted to start looking early to determine which schools to apply to. Obviously I should find a POI in my subfield that could supervise my research, but aside from that, I want to know what I should look for in schools/departments 

I know there are contradictory opinions regarding which are the "top programs" in art history, but since we all are speaking from personal experience, which would you consider to be top programs and why?

I'm also really interested in your thoughts on universities that aren't the ivies, since I think I can make an informed decision on the latter by the information that I have, contrary to the other schools which I do not have much information on (I'm an international student fyi). 

Personally I am looking mainly in the East Coast since I find location to be an important factor to me but still there are plenty of schools in that area and I can't see myself applying to all of them. I am a bit overwhelmed in trying to reduce the number of universities to choose from by picking the ones that are well regarded in the field and that could provide good opportunities/work environment for their students.

Lastly, if you or somebody you know are currently in a Phd program that you love, would you mind sharing which one is it and why did you choose it over others?

Thank you!!

Edited July 14, 2020 by paulab

[SocialKonstruct]

Such a list would be moot because there are so many different periods of art history. Each university specializes in certain periods.

I know contemporary art pretty decently but that's all I could help you with if you wish.

[paulab]

7 hours ago, SocialKonstruct said:

Each university specializes in certain periods.

I know, and probably the faculty member to supervise me would be the first thing to look at. It is a broad question I admit, I am interested in knowing what people value in their universities/departments I guess..

However my area is also modern/contemporary so I would appreciate your thoughts!

 

[venusofwillendork]

Hi @paulab!  Here are a few criteria I used to narrow down my focus.  Like you, I wanted a school in the Northeast and my area is in modern art.  Beyond the faculty I already knew about, or who were already recommended to me as potential POIs, I wanted to assess some other schools and to look at their faculty.

I actually made up a little worksheet with some of the following criteria and used it to search each department's website.  I used these criteria on the schools and people I already knew I wanted to work with, and worked to expand my list too.  I started with CAA's directory of programs (https://www.collegeart.org/publications/directories) and narrowed my focus to the regions I wanted and if I wanted an MA or a PHD and started looking at some of these qualities:

1. Preference for academia or curatorial path (some departments will advertise a strong curatorial program, if that's where you want to work after school)
2. Undergrad and MA institutions for current students (I'm a BA-only candidate, so I wanted to see if many students got accepted without an MA, and if my R2 school was realistic)
3. Number of and area of specialty for professors in my field of interest
4. Names of current dissertations in progress (anything relevant to what I want to do?)
5. Diversity, equity, and inclusion statements, and the program's emphasis on transatlantic, post-colonial lenses
6. Placement of recent graduate students
7. Focus on theory, visual analysis, material culture, interdisciplinary etc. (found this by looking at faculty)
8. Presence of, and quality of Graduate Students Association, Graduate Student Unions
9. Stipend amount (takes some creative googling) and number of years (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RK4iDBMdcTm73NJV28gDE6D4_hcjXpohTCThO9lRrQE/edit?usp=sharing)
10. Location relative to areas, museums, and archives of interest (and location relative to cost of living)
11. How long has the program existed?  What top faculty have worked there in the past?

Once I had narrowed it down to a shorter list of schools, I also considered the following:

1. Responses from faculty (do they respond, when do they respond, are they cordial, do they offer to meet?)
2. Responses from grad students (what do they have to say? are they happy with the program?)
3. Timeline to degree (do most people finish on time? what support is available? what is the placement like)
4. Support for alt-ac futures, professional development
5. Do they actually hold to their DEI statements?  Are they actually as interdisciplinary as they claim to be?

I know your question was about what makes a "top school" and there are probably answers to this.  However, I think you're really looking for a way to narrow your search down.  What makes a "Top school" top doesn't matter as much as your ability to succeed in the program and to find work afterwards.  I hope these questions help!

[paulab]

8 hours ago, venusofwillendork said:

Hi @paulab!  Here are a few criteria I used to narrow down my focus.  Like you, I wanted a school in the Northeast and my area is in modern art.  Beyond the faculty I already knew about, or who were already recommended to me as potential POIs, I wanted to assess some other schools and to look at their faculty.

I actually made up a little worksheet with some of the following criteria and used it to search each department's website.  I used these criteria on the schools and people I already knew I wanted to work with, and worked to expand my list too.  I started with CAA's directory of programs (https://www.collegeart.org/publications/directories) and narrowed my focus to the regions I wanted and if I wanted an MA or a PHD and started looking at some of these qualities:

1. Preference for academia or curatorial path (some departments will advertise a strong curatorial program, if that's where you want to work after school)
2. Undergrad and MA institutions for current students (I'm a BA-only candidate, so I wanted to see if many students got accepted without an MA, and if my R2 school was realistic)
3. Number of and area of specialty for professors in my field of interest
4. Names of current dissertations in progress (anything relevant to what I want to do?)
5. Diversity, equity, and inclusion statements, and the program's emphasis on transatlantic, post-colonial lenses
6. Placement of recent graduate students
7. Focus on theory, visual analysis, material culture, interdisciplinary etc. (found this by looking at faculty)
8. Presence of, and quality of Graduate Students Association, Graduate Student Unions
9. Stipend amount (takes some creative googling) and number of years (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RK4iDBMdcTm73NJV28gDE6D4_hcjXpohTCThO9lRrQE/edit?usp=sharing)
10. Location relative to areas, museums, and archives of interest (and location relative to cost of living)
11. How long has the program existed?  What top faculty have worked there in the past?

Once I had narrowed it down to a shorter list of schools, I also considered the following:

1. Responses from faculty (do they respond, when do they respond, are they cordial, do they offer to meet?)
2. Responses from grad students (what do they have to say? are they happy with the program?)
3. Timeline to degree (do most people finish on time? what support is available? what is the placement like)
4. Support for alt-ac futures, professional development
5. Do they actually hold to their DEI statements?  Are they actually as interdisciplinary as they claim to be?

I know your question was about what makes a "top school" and there are probably answers to this.  However, I think you're really looking for a way to narrow your search down.  What makes a "Top school" top doesn't matter as much as your ability to succeed in the program and to find work afterwards.  I hope these questions help!

Thank you so much!! I didn't even consider some of these points and they really help! That spreadsheet is very insightful too, honestly I think funding might be the determining factor

(I like your username btw ☺️)

[venusofwillendork]

Hi @paulab!  Glad to help   I also thought a lot about funding when I was applying, although I've realized that the cost of living is very different -- so the difference between a 36k stipend at UC Berkeley and a 28k one in New Haven might not be as wide as it appears.

Is your specific interest mod/con Latin American art?  You might look at Ana Maria Reyes at Boston University -- that's where I'm headed this fall and am happy to answer any questions you have.

Thanks!!

[paulab]

20 hours ago, venusofwillendork said:

Hi @paulab!  Glad to help   I also thought a lot about funding when I was applying, although I've realized that the cost of living is very different -- so the difference between a 36k stipend at UC Berkeley and a 28k one in New Haven might not be as wide as it appears.

Is your specific interest mod/con Latin American art?  You might look at Ana Maria Reyes at Boston University -- that's where I'm headed this fall and am happy to answer any questions you have.

Thanks!!

Thank you! I sent you a message!

[lapomegranate]

On 7/16/2020 at 12:35 PM, venusofwillendork said:

Hi @paulab!  Here are a few criteria I used to narrow down my focus.  Like you, I wanted a school in the Northeast and my area is in modern art.  Beyond the faculty I already knew about, or who were already recommended to me as potential POIs, I wanted to assess some other schools and to look at their faculty.

I actually made up a little worksheet with some of the following criteria and used it to search each department's website.  I used these criteria on the schools and people I already knew I wanted to work with, and worked to expand my list too.  I started with CAA's directory of programs (https://www.collegeart.org/publications/directories) and narrowed my focus to the regions I wanted and if I wanted an MA or a PHD and started looking at some of these qualities:

1. Preference for academia or curatorial path (some departments will advertise a strong curatorial program, if that's where you want to work after school)
2. Undergrad and MA institutions for current students (I'm a BA-only candidate, so I wanted to see if many students got accepted without an MA, and if my R2 school was realistic)
3. Number of and area of specialty for professors in my field of interest
4. Names of current dissertations in progress (anything relevant to what I want to do?)
5. Diversity, equity, and inclusion statements, and the program's emphasis on transatlantic, post-colonial lenses
6. Placement of recent graduate students
7. Focus on theory, visual analysis, material culture, interdisciplinary etc. (found this by looking at faculty)
8. Presence of, and quality of Graduate Students Association, Graduate Student Unions
9. Stipend amount (takes some creative googling) and number of years (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RK4iDBMdcTm73NJV28gDE6D4_hcjXpohTCThO9lRrQE/edit?usp=sharing)
10. Location relative to areas, museums, and archives of interest (and location relative to cost of living)
11. How long has the program existed?  What top faculty have worked there in the past?

Once I had narrowed it down to a shorter list of schools, I also considered the following:

1. Responses from faculty (do they respond, when do they respond, are they cordial, do they offer to meet?)
2. Responses from grad students (what do they have to say? are they happy with the program?)
3. Timeline to degree (do most people finish on time? what support is available? what is the placement like)
4. Support for alt-ac futures, professional development
5. Do they actually hold to their DEI statements?  Are they actually as interdisciplinary as they claim to be?

I know your question was about what makes a "top school" and there are probably answers to this.  However, I think you're really looking for a way to narrow your search down.  What makes a "Top school" top doesn't matter as much as your ability to succeed in the program and to find work afterwards.  I hope these questions help!

Hi! I know this about something else but I see you listed 'Responses from faculty'. I am divided between contacting the faculty or not. Is this advisable? What could I ask them? I feel they must be bothered at this point with potential students emailing them, but I don't know really.

Also, you were looking at

1. Undergrad and MA institutions for current students (I'm a BA-only candidate, so I wanted to see if many students got accepted without an MA, and if my R2 school was realistic)

How were you able to search for this? I am in the same situation and I haven't figured out a way yet.

Thanks so much for your very thorough answer! It helped me a lot also!

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by artyanimal

[venusofwillendork]

21 hours ago, artyanimal said:

Hi! I know this about something else but I see you listed 'Responses from faculty'. I am divided between contacting the faculty or not. Is this advisable? What could I ask them? I feel they must be bothered at this point with potential students emailing them, but I don't know really.

Hi! I know you just messaged me, but to answer this specific question publicly -- yes, reaching out to faculty is super important.  You need to stand out from 100-300 applications to be not only academically in the top 10, but personally someone the faculty want to work with.  Think of this like a job application.  If you just send off the application and let it go, you might be awesome, but you will not do as well as the person who has used their networking connections, or done an informational interview.  They might be bothered, so you should always be polite.  But it's their job to work with new students, so it's a fair thing to ask.

21 hours ago, artyanimal said:

1. Undergrad and MA institutions for current students (I'm a BA-only candidate, so I wanted to see if many students got accepted without an MA, and if my R2 school was realistic)

How were you able to search for this? I am in the same situation and I haven't figured out a way yet.

Yesss... this is a challenging and time-consuming one.  I don't actually know how worth it it is, but it was gratifying for me to see.  Basically, I went to each program's page.  They usually have a list of current grad students.  Those students often list their BA and MA institutions.  If they list a BA and not an MA, they almost certainly didn't get their MA before coming to the program.  And some programs will offer an MA-along-the-way, so if it matches where you're looking, they also probably only had a BA when they entered!

[Bronte1985]

9 minutes ago, venusofwillendork said:

Hi! I know you just messaged me, but to answer this specific question publicly -- yes, reaching out to faculty is super important.  You need to stand out from 100-300 applications to be not only academically in the top 10, but personally someone the faculty want to work with.  Think of this like a job application.  If you just send off the application and let it go, you might be awesome, but you will not do as well as the person who has used their networking connections, or done an informational interview.  They might be bothered, so you should always be polite.  But it's their job to work with new students, so it's a fair thing to ask.

I agree with this, with a few caveats. It is a good idea to contact faculty before you apply, because it does make you stand out (though conversely, it can also backfire if you make a bad impression). That said, a good number of faculty, especially at the top schools (think Harvard, Columbia, Princeton, etc), do not typically respond to these inquiries or if they do, will tell you they cannot meet with you. For some this is as a matter of fairness; others because they're too busy. Whatever the reason, don't read too much into it if you don't get a response or get the response you were hoping for. If the faculty member and the program are a good fit,  apply anyway and see what happens. If you're admitted, you can talk with the professor then. 

[lapomegranate]

22 hours ago, Bronte1985 said:

I agree with this, with a few caveats. It is a good idea to contact faculty before you apply, because it does make you stand out (though conversely, it can also backfire if you make a bad impression). That said, a good number of faculty, especially at the top schools (think Harvard, Columbia, Princeton, etc), do not typically respond to these inquiries or if they do, will tell you they cannot meet with you. For some this is as a matter of fairness; others because they're too busy. Whatever the reason, don't read too much into it if you don't get a response or get the response you were hoping for. If the faculty member and the program are a good fit,  apply anyway and see what happens. If you're admitted, you can talk with the professor then. 

Thanks so much! It helps so much to have different angles. I just can't seem to work out what to say to them. ?

[lapomegranate]

22 hours ago, venusofwillendork said:

Hi! I know you just messaged me, but to answer this specific question publicly -- yes, reaching out to faculty is super important.  You need to stand out from 100-300 applications to be not only academically in the top 10, but personally someone the faculty want to work with.  Think of this like a job application.  If you just send off the application and let it go, you might be awesome, but you will not do as well as the person who has used their networking connections, or done an informational interview.  They might be bothered, so you should always be polite.  But it's their job to work with new students, so it's a fair thing to ask.

Yesss... this is a challenging and time-consuming one.  I don't actually know how worth it it is, but it was gratifying for me to see.  Basically, I went to each program's page.  They usually have a list of current grad students.  Those students often list their BA and MA institutions.  If they list a BA and not an MA, they almost certainly didn't get their MA before coming to the program.  And some programs will offer an MA-along-the-way, so if it matches where you're looking, they also probably only had a BA when they entered!

Thank you! I have done that, I'm a super candidate for stalking/spying program lol. I will continue my search!