The Value of an Ivy League MA (for academia)

[SpectacledDaruma]

I've been hovering around AutoAdmit for a spell and pretty much get that Masters students are clods and idiots and whatever else. That's cool. Most people say that if you're going into finance or business, don't bother with the price tag on an Ivy League master's degree, just get it from a cheaper university. This also makes sense. But if my end goal is academia and professorship, does the Ivy League sourced Masters carry weight where it otherwise wouldn't in, say, the business world? In other words, would it be worth the additional cost compared to a partially funded state university Masters?

[jaw17]

Can you clarify why you're applying to an MA at all, if your goal is academia? Why not straight to PhD?

[SpectacledDaruma]

jaw,

I don't really have the resume/CV for a PhD program. I'm one year out of undergrad. Also, I need more language training, and the only PhD language training for Japanese is in an East Asian PhD which is, I think, not very valuable. I don't/can't step into a PhD without being able to read Japanese first, so for me, the MA is the formative period to gain that literacy and knowledge base for a good PhD program.

[rising_star]

I've been hovering around AutoAdmit for a spell and pretty much get that Masters students are clods and idiots and whatever else. That's cool. Most people say that if you're going into finance or business, don't bother with the price tag on an Ivy League master's degree, just get it from a cheaper university. This also makes sense. But if my end goal is academia and professorship, does the Ivy League sourced Masters carry weight where it otherwise wouldn't in, say, the business world? In other words, would it be worth the additional cost compared to a partially funded state university Masters?

First, no need to insult master's students. There are plenty of us on here. Second, go with the partially funded option unless you plan to have income on the backend that will allow you to compensate for the debt you'd be taking on to go to the Ivy. Third, the Ivy League schools aren't all they're cracked up to be.

[SpectacledDaruma]

First, no need to insult master's students. There are plenty of us on here.

Oops, sorry, my sarcasm didn't get across. As a soon-to-be Master's student myself I'm not insulting MA students, but drawing on the sincerely despairing rudeness found on AutoAdmit.

[DUguy333]

Can you clarify why you're applying to an MA at all, if your goal is academia? Why not straight to PhD?

I know this question wasn't directed at me but my ultimate goal is academia and some fields require an MA before continuing onto a Ph.D. program.

[historygirl]

I applied for an Ivy MA. I'm several years out of undergrad and worked for awhile. However, this means that I don't have the necessary academic letters of rec for a PhD program. I also graduated from a small, regional program and had little exposure to the research I'm planning to pursue (I have a BA in history, but nothing really for the subfield). Of course, I have no undergrad debt. Given the market fright now for history profs, I figure I have to get in to the best PhD program I possibly can. An MA from an Ivy can help me do that, and there is no way it would happen with my app as it stands now. Plus, although it's expensive, I expect I will be funded for my PhD, so I'll ultimately have less debt than most.

[BC08]

I have a hard time believing that an MA from an Ivy League school could ever prove detrimental to one's career prospects.

[SpectacledDaruma]

The question has suddenly become much more relevant.

School 1: Harvard MA, no financial aid. Will be paying a significant sum in tuition and Boston living costs. Added bonus of prestige and very large names in chosen field.

School 2: UW - Seattle. First year tuition paid and a significant stipend. For a Masters! Has large names in the field as well, as a state school with a very good program in what I want to do.

So, is the Harvard title worth 80-100K?

[jaw17]

I suspect that the Harvard MA will give you a leg up getting into the Harvard PhD program, since you would have had the chance to work with those same profs - so if that's your dream end point, I'd probably shell out the money in the near term. But otherwise I'd go with Seattle.

[rising_star]

The question has suddenly become much more relevant.

School 1: Harvard MA, no financial aid. Will be paying a significant sum in tuition and Boston living costs. Added bonus of prestige and very large names in chosen field.

School 2: UW - Seattle. First year tuition paid and a significant stipend. For a Masters! Has large names in the field as well, as a state school with a very good program in what I want to do.

So, is the Harvard title worth 80-100K?

That depends. How do you plan to pay off that 100K and would you rather not have that debt so you could buy a home? I'd to to UW-Seattle. It's a well-respected institution and I doubt a MA from there would ever hurt you.

[SpectacledDaruma]

That depends. How do you plan to pay off that 100K and would you rather not have that debt so you could buy a home? I'd to to UW-Seattle. It's a well-respected institution and I doubt a MA from there would ever hurt you.

Method of payment? That would be student loans, so the total cost would be balloon above that. And yes, I wouldn't want that debt saddling me for a number of years. Since UW is a respectable institution, and the program is very strong, I'm leaning towards UW.

[historygirl]

SD - in that case, I'd go with UW in a second. If the profs and program are respected, it's not worth the added expense. You really don't want to come out of grad school with more debt than you can handle.

[samantha20]

Were you accepted to Harvard's Regional Studies East Asian (RSEA) program? If so, even if you didn't get funding for the first year, you can still compete for it for your second year. Moreover, a number of people who have the RSEA AM degree often enter a doctoral program at Harvard or other prestigious institutions.

Anyways, University of Washington-Seattle is also an excellent school for East Asian Studies. In fact a couple of the tenured faculty in the East Asian Languages & Civilizations program at Harvard received their doctoral degrees from Seattle.

May I ask what your fields of interest are? Modern Japanese history? Literature? Pre-modern?

[JordanJames]

1. Go to Harvard

2. Names mean a lot when adcoms don't have much info on you to go by besides those names

3. Having Harvard profs writing your recommendations while also possibly judging your app would probably give you a leg up at getting into their PhD program.

4. Loans will eventually be repaid

5. This is a decision that may affect the trajectory of your whole career, so you probably shouldn't think about the money so long as you can manage to pay for and complete the program

6. Good luck

[historygirl]

"Don't think about the money" has gotten a lot of academics in desperate straits over the years. Especially in the humanities. The humanities has the suckiest job market of all, often taking a few years to get a TT job after graduation. In the meantime, people get VAPs (more rare) or adjunct. I wouldn't want to support myself on an adjunct salary period, let alone with huge debt.

For myself, I don't care so much. My SO has a portable, very well-paying job. If it wasn't for him, though, I'd be doing a lower-ranked program where I got paid. The Ivy name means far less on your app than your SOP and your LORs. A respectable program (especially one with big names, as you say) will be plenty fine.

The key is to make the most of your MA. Besides garnering the LORs, present at a conference or two and try to get published. Even if you have an article out for review, it will look good.

[SpectacledDaruma]

This all reminds me pretty much any consumer choice debate - get x, get x, never get x, never get y.

Normally, if UW had a mediocre program, I'd agree wholeheartedly with the posters pushing for Harvard. And if this were a PhD program, I'd probably also go broke and penniless for Harvard. But for an MA, I think UW's particularly solid credentials for Asian Studies and the generous financial package win the day. Maybe I'm selectively reading, but the above poster's advice on the importance of a good statement of purpose and recommendation letters, and I imagine a good Master's thesis and some published work will win the day and counter-balance the mind boggling cost of the Harvard name.

Thanks for all the advice, though. I have carefully considered both sides, but can't count on a good future salary or a well-off significant other to foot my bills. So, I think, UW it is. Unless another prospective school can throw in a boat, or a lifetime supply of Chipotle burritos. =)

[rising_star]

I don't think you'll regret the UW choice, FWIW. They're a great school, particularly in area studies. I almost went there to do African studies stuff and there Asian studies blows the African stuff out of the water. Plus, UW is respected by plenty of employers. So, like I said, I think it's a great choice. But remember, your MA is what you make it. I'm having success with PhD apps, not because I go to a big name school or work with a well-known advisor, but because I've been doing all kinds of things (co-organizing sessions at the national conference, doing some interesting research in two different areas, co-PI on a grant w/another grad student, great GPA, presenting at conferences). Those things help. As does what I imagine was a phenomenal letter that my advisor wrote. Make those connections and you'll be fine.

[tasteomycheese]

Hey guys,

I'm in a similar situation. I'm a MS Electrical/Computer engineering student, and here are the three choices I'm choosing between:

1) UW-Seattle. RA with $2k/month stipend + tuition waiver

2) Columbia - most likely no funding

3) USC - most likely no funding

The choice is probably fairly straightforward, but I don't want to look back 20 years from now and regret losing my chance at experiencing the ivy league education.

[SpectacledDaruma]

I'm in a similar situation.

In the time that I last posted I've done a fair bit of research and question asking in other venues. Here's what I found.

First, I did a LOT more research between my candidate programs. For me, it was between UW for free, or Harvard for financial injury. I went through the course catalogs and counted how many courses each school had, explicitly, about my subject of interest - Japanese politics. Each had an "East Asia" program, but that doesn't say what the different regions and academic fields' relative weights are.

Harvard had five courses meeting the above criteria. Very respectable. But UW had 24. Conclusion (maybe wrong): while UW lacks the old boy charm of Harvard and the name doesn't sparkle quite as brightly, MY SPECIFIC PROGRAM is infinitely better suited for my academic needs. And admissions committees will recognize this by the program's reputation.

An example of a local university comes to mind. Colorado State University is a solid education, but nothing stellar. Unless you want to go into vet science. In which case, CSU has a nationally respected top tier veterinarian science program. Totally out of the blue. And for Japanese politics, UW is the same way. No other school can match the course offering, while some schools can compete on about even footing for professors of renown and research materials.

Now, factor in the free vs. very unfree financial packages and the choice becomes somewhat clearer.

If this was the same situation as applied to a PhD instead of an MA, then I would probably cringe and dole out the money for Harvard's name as far as a PhD goes. But for a Masters, go where you can produce your best work, participate in publishing, make a killer masters thesis, and then use that to get into a reputable PhD program. You'll have all the credentials you'll need and you'll be debt free. And school work is a lot easier with that burden off your shoulders.

Hope this helps. I've been anguishing over this question for a time now, and now that everything is in perspective, I'm well set to proceed with packing things up for the move.

[yticnineb]

I think you're making the right decision. I can't imagine that a PhD admissions committee would look down on a focused, successful MA applicant from a respected program. In fact, I once had a conversation with my undergrad adviser who advised against shelling out money for a terminal MA-- he said that the fact that a student was able to pay for an expensive MA (or that it appeared that way) could very well figure into a PhD committee's funding decisions. Unofficially, of course. I wouldn't be surprised; everything is so subjective. In the future, definitely make clear on your CV etc. that you took this MA with fellowship support-- it will demonstrate that you were an attractive candidate at this point in your academic career, make a case for why you didn't attend a "better" program, and help avoid that situation where you might be locked out of top funding "because she/he can already pay." Just my two cents. And congrats, again!

[historygirl]

I should point out that you should never, ever go by the course catalog. The course catalog is a collection of all the courses they will ever consider teaching and have taught in the last several years. Cross-reference it with the course schedule. You'll often find that most of the courses in the course catalog will not be offered.