Masters or PhD? And international masters programs?

[PerennialStudent]

Hi everyone, I hope to go to a top-10 political science PhD program eventually but am not sure whether I should do a masters program first to help get more relevant letters of rec and research. Here are a few of my stats:

GRE: V 169, Q 169

GPA: 3.9, BA in statistics at Berkeley, couple years ago.

Coursework: No poli sci or related classes, I found my way to poli sci after undergrad. 

Work experience: I have been working as a data scientist at a large tech company for a couple years now.

Research: I did volunteer quant research on the effect of advertising on state elections (with a nonprofit, not in academia)

Extracurriculars: volunteered as a data scientist for a political campaign, and have been involved in local advocacy on police policy in my city (researching policy, meeting with the mayor, city manager, etc.) 

LoR: one from a humanities prof from a marxist theory class, one from the volunteer research manager and one from a data science manager. None of these have a background in poli sci, however.

Writing Sample: paper I wrote about governmentality and healthcare. 

Research interests: using automated text processing/NLP to explore how political issues are framed and how ideology is disseminated around issues like policing and punishment in the US. Interested in doing quant research with a grounding in political theory.

My questions: 1) Would a masters help or should I go for the PhD now? 2) If masters, do you think that top-10 US PhD programs would look well upon an international masters, e.g. from UBC, U Toronto, Oxford, Cambridge, London School of Econ, or other programs in Europe/Canada/Australia ranked in the top 50 globally? Thanks everyone!

[GradSchoolGrad]

3 hours ago, PerennialStudent said:

Hi everyone, I hope to go to a top-10 political science PhD program eventually but am not sure whether I should do a masters program first to help get more relevant letters of rec and research. Here are a few of my stats:

GRE: V 169, Q 169

GPA: 3.9, BA in statistics at Berkeley, couple years ago.

Coursework: No poli sci or related classes, I found my way to poli sci after undergrad. 

Work experience: I have been working as a data scientist at a large tech company for a couple years now.

Research: I did volunteer quant research on the effect of advertising on state elections (with a nonprofit, not in academia)

Extracurriculars: volunteered as a data scientist for a political campaign, and have been involved in local advocacy on police policy in my city (researching policy, meeting with the mayor, city manager, etc.) 

LoR: one from a humanities prof from a marxist theory class, one from the volunteer research manager and one from a data science manager. None of these have a background in poli sci, however.

Writing Sample: paper I wrote about governmentality and healthcare. 

Research interests: using automated text processing/NLP to explore how political issues are framed and how ideology is disseminated around issues like policing and punishment in the US. Interested in doing quant research with a grounding in political theory.

My questions: 1) Would a masters help or should I go for the PhD now? 2) If masters, do you think that top-10 US PhD programs would look well upon an international masters, e.g. from UBC, U Toronto, Oxford, Cambridge, London School of Econ, or other programs in Europe/Canada/Australia ranked in the top 50 globally? Thanks everyone!

If your goal is to get into the best PhD program possible - get a PhD now. Instead of consulting us, you really need to talk to a Political Science professor. I think you should be good to (if not in the best position) to get a PhD now. It saves you the and money. Additionally, you have a stellar GPA. Say you get a 3.5 GPA in your Masters', that can hypothetically limit your PhD credibility on your application. 

[smug-face]

You should probably apply to a few top PhDs this cycle, along with some good masters programs. Keep your options open, you never know. Definitely try to get in touch with some polisci profs before you apply though.

[Dwar]

I Suggest you try your hand at PhD programs now. Your profile seems like it should get you a few admissions. The reason that I suggest going for the PhD as opposed to the MA is mainly because in your PhD program you'll be earning an MA as well. Very few programs allow credits to be transferred from other programs. I'd say an MA also doesn't really put you at a comparative advantage vs someone who doesn't have an MA. Especially if you are looking at more professional MA programs, the academic oriented PhD programs won't view that necessarily as a plus. While I doubt they'll view it as a negative, it won't really be a plus. 

Also there is that whole cost things. professional MA programs can be expensive AF. 

With that all being said, I do understand why you'd want to go to a political science program. The main flag with your profile is obviously the lack of political science course work. So if you do go the MA route, try for a local state one. They will provide the required course work to make your case for admissions, without costing a boatload of money. 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Dwar

[terefere]

If money is not a constraint, follow the advice above: apply to both PhD and MA programs and see what happens. 

But honestly, IMHO the lack of political science coursework is not the problem. You can easily get into a Political Science PhD program without having taken any political science classes. It's the LORs that are the problem. What you need are letters that can attest to your research abilities and ideally written by people who understand what it takes to produce political science research. It sounds like none of the 3 letter writers would be able to do it. Do the 2 managers have PhDs? 

The rest of your background looks good. Of course, you will need a cover letter that convincingly explains why political science. My advice: don't talk about advocacy and campaigns beyond the research aspects of it. 

An MA from top international programs will look great. But to me, the question is: can you get better letters by doing a political science MA? It's not clear. And given the application cycle, you would have 2 semesters to impress at least 2 political scientists. That means taking classes with a heavy research component (e.g. term paper). Not common in political science for MA students, but if you could become an RA to a political science prof while in the program, that is another great way to get a letter. Your background would make you relatively attractive as an RA. But I imagine the chances of being hired vary vastly between all these programs you mentioned. In either case, you want to make sure you are careful picking MA programs. There are also good research focused MA programs in the US as well (Duke, Columbia). Worth considering, perhaps. 

[PoliSciGuy00]

Hi OP, 

Since I have a policy-oriented master's degree I'll throw my two cents in here.  Like others have said, a policy-oriented master's degree is expensive, although I still found it to be a worthwhile experience.  I got three great letter writers out of it, who I feel confident will remain valuable professional contacts down the road that I wouldn't have met otherwise.  I also got a wealth of RA experience.  My undergrad was from a relatively prestigious SLAC but I wasn't a good student and my GPA was subpar, so I didn't even bother with PhD programs right away.  Your situation is different and I think your GRE score and GPA are terrific.  However, as others on this thread have said, I think the biggest problem you have is your LOR writers.  My educated guess is that most competitive applicants have letters from three academics and at least two political scientists.  If you've been out of school for a long time most programs will excuse one letter from a non-academic professional.  It won't help them but it won't hurt them.  But the other two should be from academics and ideally political scientists or academics familiar with polisci (sometimes historians, other social scientists, or philosophers).  In your case, I'd try really hard to find another professor, even if they don't know you as well as one of your managers.  Try to have a friend or professor in polisci look over your personal statement and then send this to your professors so they have a good idea of what to talk about in your LORs.      

 

All that said, I'd recommend you apply to 3-4 MA programs but also shoot for some PhD programs that you'd want to attend.  I know people on this forum have mixed feelings on UChicago CIR, but from my experience it is a good program.  Although expensive, they often give out aid and will frequently bump up your aid amount if you just ask.  As you are doing, looking at Oxbridge and LSE.  Canadian programs are good, too.  If you get admitted to different MA programs, use these offers as leverage to increase your aid.  Most won't give you a stipend, but I think you could get a pretty strong scholarship, if not a full ride, with your GRE scores.  I think it's perfectly okay to e-mail professors that fit with your interests at these MA programs and directly ask if they ever send people to PhD programs.  I think many will be forthcoming with you.

 

One other wrinkle to consider here.  I think most people on this forum will agree its a lot easier to build relationships with professors if classes are in-person and the university is functioning as normal.  Hopefully Covid will be over with by the time you matriculate, but if you're US based and taking classes entirely online at LSE or somewhere abroad...I'm not sure how helpful that will be in getting good letters, especially in a short period of time.  I'd still apply but keep this in mind in March when making your decisions.    

 

Best of luck.  If any more thoughts come to me I'll post them.        

[PerennialStudent]

Hey everyone, just wanted to say thank you all for taking the time on these in-depth responses. This has been really helpful for me and I hope to pay it forward! Thank you all.