Nervous - Advice on Chances and Other Programs?

[Mitch Rapp]

Hello all, 

I'll try to keep it short. I come from a small state school and decided to apply to programs this years. However, all of my professors are very dismal about my chances, mainly because my school (to my knowledge) has never had an undergraduate placed into a top 30 Ph.D. program (Gourmet Rankings). So I have two questions... (1) What are my chances in your opinion and should I look for a backup plan? (2) Should I apply to any other schools? Here are my stats:

• 4.0 Cumulative GPA
• Two independent studies and a grad seminar on my transcript 
• Majoring in Econ and Phil
• NCAA D1 athlete 
• Three writing samples on Aristotle, Beauvoir, and Kant respectively (about half the programs allow two samples)
  • 3000 words, 5500 words, and 7000 words 
    • All reviewed by multiple faculty and 100% + papers according to them
• No publications except for a small blog I run myself 
• Tons of outside research which I highlight in my personal statement
• (I presume) three really solid letters of rec  
• No GRE - I had some circumstances with the Covid stuff

 

I applied to 23 programs most of which are in Gourmet top 50. I'm wondering however if I should apply to any others... Oregon and Arizona State come to mind? My interests are broad and I'd be happy studying anything if I could just get into a program. 

 

Thanks!

[Mischief]

EDIT: sorry, I double-posted. See below.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mischief
double post

[Mischief]

Hi Mitch,

Sorry to hear that you're feeling stressed--it doesn't help that the cost of applying is so high when you apply to such a wide range of schools. Let me try to distill some of the common comments you'll get around here and on the blogs. Here's your list, annotated:

• 4.0 Cumulative GPA - Good, this bodes well for your ability to get scholarship funding and as a result counts in your favour. It won't, however, play a big role in whether or not you are admitted--rather, it will plop you into the pool with the majority of other applicants who have a high enough GPA not to make people worry.
• Two independent studies and a grad seminar on my transcript -- These won't bear on your application directly. Rather, they will hopefully help people writing your letters be better informed about your abilities.
• Majoring in Econ and Phil -- As above, this keeps you in the running insofar as a non-major might have to explain their preparedness for the program. Having an Econ major is probably *useful* for your preparedness to do, e.g., political philosophy, but isn't a point in your favour by itself.
• NCAA D1 athlete -- Good for you, really! This, however, will not bear on your application. It might only in a small way if you say something about how demanding the schedule was and that despite this you were very successful.
• Three writing samples on Aristotle, Beauvoir, and Kant respectively (about half the programs allow two samples) -- This might have been risky. I'm not sure who gave you advice about submitting two samples rather than one, but generally you don't want to submit two samples unless you are proposing to work in both an area of history (e.g. ancient) and in an area of systematic (e.g. epistemology). Perhaps this is what you did. How this is addressed will depend on the program
  • All reviewed by multiple faculty and 100% + papers according to them -- a good sign, though not sufficient--this should be the baseline for any writing sample.
• No publications except for a small blog I run myself -- that's alright, publications don't typically play a role in philosophy admissions anyways (as has been described quite a bit by a few applicants over the last few years).
• Tons of outside research which I highlight in my personal statement -- Could be good if it is tightly related to philosophy, though again, not a determinant. Hopefully this will count in your favour when discussed by your letter writers.
• (I presume) three really solid letters of rec  -- Good, again, this is the baseline for considering making an application so I'm glad you feel confident about it!
• No GRE - I had some circumstances with the Covid stuff -- totally fine for most schools, and you would know more about this.

I am certain this won't give you the relief you are looking for, but I hope it helps throw into relief just how little things matter outside of the writing sample(s) and letters of recommendation. You sounds like an absolutely terrific applicant--and really probably a shoe-in for other kinds of programs, like professional schools--but the received wisdom across the board is that much of what you've listed above will either play no or a small role in the assessment of your file.

It will be okay! It's just a waiting game now that your applications are in! Don't forget that many people with fewer credentials than you will be admitted, and many with more credentials than you will be rejected.

Good luck!

EDIT: sorry, missed your thing about applying to more schools. Don't apply if you (1) wouldn't go, or (2) it's not a good fit for you. If they weren't on your initial list, think very hard about whether it's spending the money and time to apply.

[Happybuddha]

Hello! I understand your feelings of anxiety. “Back up” PhDs, however, are not really a thing. ASU, for example, admitted one (I repeat-ONE) PhD student this year (I know because I know her!). While they are planning to admit a cohort this year, it won’t be larger than 4 students (and will likely be closer to 1-2). Whereas there are most likely some much higher ranked schools that will end up admitting closer to 8-10 new students. Not to say you couldn’t be one of those students, but if by “back up” you mean “more likely to get in” then unfortunately I don’t think there are many of those programs out there (even unranked ones). 
 

By far, the best back-up option for you would be to also apply to some funded MA programs that have excellent placement records like Georgia State, Texas Tech, University of Houston, etc. Many of these programs are designed to assist applicants like you (strong student coming from a small/lesser-known department) get into top PhD programs! I would highly highly recommend applying to at least a handful of MA programs (the fees are less than PhD applications usually). I hope this helps!! 

[maxhgns]

Your chances look just fine. But remember that you don't only get one shot at this, and also remember that if you're shut out this year, it's not such a bad thing--it buys you at least one extra year for the job market to get better, to the extent that it ever will (it never recovered from 2008-09, but it did get better after years). Besides, the in-person experience of the first few years of the PhD program is pretty important.

 

On 12/27/2020 at 9:47 AM, Mitch Rapp said:

My interests are broad and I'd be happy studying anything if I could just get into a program. 

This is the part that has me more concerned, although there's obviously no way I can tell to what extent I should be, given the information you've given us. But if you strike out or don't perform as well as you'd like, I'd suggest paying closer attention to this. You don't need to apply to a PhD program with very definite plans (except outside the US and Canada, anyway), but you do need to have some good ideas about what you want to do. You should narrow it down to two or three areas of specialization, tops. You can always change your mind and work on something completely different, but you should give departments some idea of what you want to do and who you might work with. This helps establish fit, and can also make a difference where supervisors are concerned, since departments tend to try to balance out incoming classes and overall supervisory burdens.

[Mitch Rapp]

10 hours ago, maxhgns said:

This is the part that has me more concerned, although there's obviously no way I can tell to what extent I should be, given the information you've given us. 

Thanks! You are right, though I did stress quite a bit in my SoP my specific interests. I meant really that I'd just be happy to get the opportunity to study philosophy at any place even if I have to change my interests slightly. 

I will admit that it has been challenging trying to navigate the talk of specialization. It seems to early to think of that right now....

[Outer Heaven]

You have a great profile that will help you stand out in the programs you applied. I do not think there is enough predictability in knowing what counts as a safe school. 

[AKFlowerree]

Hi Mitch Rapp,

You have a very strong application. As others have noted, PhD applications can be extremely competitive. If you are looking for a fall back option, I hope you will consider Texas Tech University's MA program! We offer a funded MA, and cost of living here in Lubbock is quite cheap. You can see our grad placement here: https://www.depts.ttu.edu/philosophy/degrees/placement.php

And more info on the program here: https://www.depts.ttu.edu/philosophy/degrees/gradprogram.php

Our application deadline is Feb 15th, though we do begin reviewing applications before then.

If you have any questions about the program, please email me at amy.flowerree@ttu.edu, and I'm happy to answer your questions!

Very best,

Amy