WWS HKS SIPA financial aid

[Octavia]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and I'll be applying in 2011 to begin grad school in the fall 2012. People often share their views on test/bios/stats etc but I haven't seen to many posts on financial aid. What is the successful applicants' perspective on the admission process, financial aid in particular? I know that there are different components, which would appeal to the admissions committee but what do you think is most important factor in the determination of funding?

I've been browsing the websites of all three schools I am interested in (WWS, HKS and SIPA) and only WWS has a clear statement about its financial aid policy: "the admission process is need-blind and does not consider the applicant's financial resources in making admissions decisions. The School awards both need-based and merit-based financial aid to its graduate students. Applicants must complete the Statement of Financial Resources which is part of the online application in order to be considered for financial aid. Financial aid is awarded in scholarship grants, not loans, to meet the full demonstrated need of each admitted student." Unlike WWS, both HKS and SIPA are extremely vague when it comes to explaining their financial aid policy. Also, the majority of SIPA and HKS students I know got a big fat $0 in funding.

I am currently working for the UN (Peacekeeping Operations) and find it hard to save up for graduate school while 1) working in the public sector and 2) living in NYC. I keep on postponing the decision to go back to school but at one point it will become inevitable. I don't think it is a good idea to take 130k in debt while embarking on or continuing a career path in public service. I know I just can't afford it. On the other hand, I don't think it makes sense to simply go for an affordable program (state school or no name policy school etc). Given the competition for public service jobs and the fact that it is even hard for ivy league graduates to find employment, it really makes no sense to get a public policy degree if it is not from a highly respected school.

How did you deal with this issue? Any ideas? Suggestions?

[greendiplomat]

Excuse the short response (exams), but my understanding is that most HKS and SIPA students have external fellowships/scholarships. Given your work experience (and provided that you have the numbers to back this up), I'm sure you can get funding if you want to attend HKS and/or SIPA.

[Minerva473]

I'd say give it a shot at your top three but also look into some other programs, particularly if your goal is public service. I am sure that SIPA, HKS and WWS are great but no school's name is going to make or break your career. The network you get by attending will certainly help and their career services will support you (I've heard HKS in particular know what they're doing in that respect), but these three just aren't the only ones out there. Personally I think their competitive advantage is really in the private sector. Places like SAIS, U Chicago, Duke, UC Berkeley, Fletcher and Syracuse (yes I'm biased because I've decided to attend Syracuse) all have programs that are nothing to scoff at and great networks as well, and at the end of the day if you work hard at the job search you can get to where you want to go. These programs will offer funding to a strong candidate and they may make you an offer you can't refuse.

That said, you may be selling yourself short with your top three. Don't underestimate the power of a strong personal statement -- tell your story well and you may end up with some unexpected offers.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Minerva473

[Minerva473]

I'd say give it a shot at your top three but also look into some other programs, particularly if your goal is public service. I am sure that SIPA, HKS and WWS are great but no school's name is going to make or break your career. The network you get by attending will certainly help and their career services will support you (I've heard HKS in particular know what they're doing in that respect), but these three just aren't the only ones out there. Personally I think their competitive advantage is really in the private sector. Places like SAIS, U Chicago, Duke, UC Berkeley, Fletcher and Syracuse (yes I'm biased because I've decided to attend Syracuse) all have programs that are nothing to scoff at and great networks as well, and at the end of the day if you work hard at the job search you can get to where you want to go. These programs will offer funding to a strong candidate and they may make you an offer you can't refuse.

That said, you may be selling yourself short with your top three. Don't underestimate the power of a strong personal statement -- tell your story well and you may end up with some unexpected offers.

And to add (in answer to your question), I think that the likelihood of getting internal funding from a program depends on:

a. Your stats and most importantly work experience, in comparison to their average entering student (which is why it's a good idea to apply to other places besides HKS, SIPA and WWS)

b. How much you convince them that their program is a "good fit" for you (the more they think you're actually interested in the program, the more interested they'll be in offering you an incentive to attend, since if you turn it down it's harder for them to use it to attract someone else of equal calibre)

[bestfootforward]

how about looking at the loan forgiveness programs, if any, at your top choice schools? maybe front end financial aid is not how they operate, but such schools can in fact be good deals for people interested in the public sector.

[carpecc]

I agree that your work experience will mean a lot. From the MA graduates I've talked to, the problem with employment is not having work experience in the sector of choice. You already have that: UN is top experience to have.

As for funding, you never know, you might get more than you expect. Apply to a range of schools. You might not get big money at your top three, but, especially if you have the grades, you can get good funding from at least one of the 5-7 programs you apply to. All of the top 20 programs in your field will offer a great education, and in the end it will be you armed with your CV and willpower that will bring you the sweet job. Plenty of people go to non Ivy programs and end up fine, I personally know a few from less prestigious schools that have nonprofit jobs to die for. But they have the jobs cuz they're awesome, not because of their school.

A name is great, but the orgs and businesses that count still recognize talent when they see it.

Regardless, start preparing your app next fall and see how it turns out, you can always turn it down then resubmit the next year. You might get fully funded to WWS, but you won't know until you ask.

[JBrodsky]

There are a lot of options to be frank. I agree with what all of the others said; don't necessarily privilege name above everything, especially if you're genuinely interested in a public service career. I got funded offers at a couple of schools and turned them down for a partially funded one at Harvard. Honestly, though it wasn't because of something as simple as the name; it's because it's just the best for what I want to do, as far as I can tell at least (and I only made that decision after weeks of research and interviewing students and professors at both and talking to a number of mentors). To be perfectly frank, if Harvard hadn't been such a good fit, I'd almost certainly have gone to one of the other schools that I applied to. They all have their strengths. As it is, I deferred for a year to do a 1 year funded academic program first, which will allow me to apply for some outside scholarships. That's always an option.

Long story short, apply to a number of schools and see where you get in. You can always defer or try again the following year. There's no magic bullet, and I think the general requirements to get funding from these schools is the same: good work experience, good numbers, good recommendations, focused goal, fit, and unique/well-written papers. Of course, almost anyone could tell you that. Getting all of that together is the tough part. Your experience is a great start, though. Best of luck! I hope you find this forum a useful resource, especially once you have more specific questions.

Edited May 12, 2010 by JBrodsky

[Octavia]

There are a lot of options to be frank. I agree with what all of the others said; don't necessarily privilege name above everything, especially if you're genuinely interested in a public service career. I got funded offers at a couple of schools and turned them down for a partially funded one at Harvard. Honestly, though it wasn't because of something as simple as the name; it's because it's just the best for what I want to do, as far as I can tell at least (and I only made that decision after weeks of research and interviewing students and professors at both and talking to a number of mentors). To be perfectly frank, if Harvard hadn't been such a good fit, I'd almost certainly have gone to one of the other schools that I applied to. They all have their strengths. As it is, I deferred for a year to do a 1 year funded academic program first, which will allow me to apply for some outside scholarships. That's always an option.

Long story short, apply to a number of schools and see where you get in. You can always defer or try again the following year. There's no magic bullet, and I think the general requirements to get funding from these schools is the same: good work experience, good numbers, good recommendations, focused goal, fit, and unique/well-written papers. Of course, almost anyone could tell you that. Getting all of that together is the tough part. Your experience is a great start, though. Best of luck! I hope you find this forum a useful resource, especially once you have more specific questions.

Thanks a lot for all the responses. JBrodsky, I noticed you got into most of the programs you applied to and received some funding. For HKS, what sort of funding were you offered, if you don't mind sharing?

I also noticed, if the posts and stats on this forum are any indication, that funding at SIPA is very rare. Does anyone know why that is?

I know it is relatively easy for people from the UN to get into SIPA (in fact, we get paid to take classes there and at NYU) but by looking at the employment statistics on SIPA's website, it is evident that if their graduates get jobs at the UN, they get them as Administrative Assistant. These statistics really make me question the decision to consider SIPA at all. The fact that most people in my Division have MBAs and don't even know what an MPP is doesn't help either.

I suppose my insistance on applying to top programs (WWS and HKS) comes from the fact that I am already working for the UN, I've interned with the US Government and managed to maintain a 4.0 GPA. I somehow feel that if I go back to school, only top program can really serve as a springboard to a more meaningful career in public service. Also, WWS and HKS appeal to me more, given their quantitative rigor and government affairs-oriented curriculum. At least, that is what both schools claim they focus on. Can can anybody here attest to this claim?

[SdeS]

Thanks a lot for all the responses. JBrodsky, I noticed you got into most of the programs you applied to and received some funding. For HKS, what sort of funding were you offered, if you don't mind sharing?

I also noticed, if the posts and stats on this forum are any indication, that funding at SIPA is very rare. Does anyone know why that is?

I know it is relatively easy for people from the UN to get into SIPA (in fact, we get paid to take classes there and at NYU) but by looking at the employment statistics on SIPA's website, it is evident that if their graduates get jobs at the UN, they get them as Administrative Assistant. These statistics really make me question the decision to consider SIPA at all. The fact that most people in my Division have MBAs and don't even know what an MPP is doesn't help either.

I suppose my insistance on applying to top programs (WWS and HKS) comes from the fact that I am already working for the UN, I've interned with the US Government and managed to maintain a 4.0 GPA. I somehow feel that if I go back to school, only top program can really serve as a springboard to a more meaningful career in public service. Also, WWS and HKS appeal to me more, given their quantitative rigor and government affairs-oriented curriculum. At least, that is what both schools claim they focus on. Can can anybody here attest to this claim?

I'd guess that the reason SIPA students get entry level jobs at the UN is that many of them probably have limited work experience prior to entering grad school. I imagine that someone with 4-5 years of experience and a Master's degree could probably get a P-3 position, regardless of where they got their degree.

As far as I understand, SIPA only funds 10% of their incoming class and reserves most of its [limited] endowment for second year students. Of the first year awards they give, only 5-6 are in the $25-50 k range.

WWS and HKS both score high with their focus on domestic govt. affairs. WWS is arguably more quantatively rigorous than HKS (besides the MPA/ID). SAIS is also very serious about their quant requirements/curriculum. That said, I do believe that is is possible to customize your experience pretty much anywhere you go and take higher level quant classes if you choose.

As someone who was very conflicted about choosing a school which was the best fit and prestigious vs. schools with great programs and a lot of funding, I've gone over every possible combination in my head and realized that it really comes down to what you make of your experience. A prestigious name could be cancelled out by a lot of debt, and in some cases, a full ride might not give you the experience you are looking for or the connections you might hope to gain. At the end of the day you never really know how things are going to turn out (I got offered a full tuition scholorship from my top school at the very last minute)-so keep the faith and good luck!

[econhawk]

Thanks a lot for all the responses. JBrodsky, I noticed you got into most of the programs you applied to and received some funding. For HKS, what sort of funding were you offered, if you don't mind sharing?

I also noticed, if the posts and stats on this forum are any indication, that funding at SIPA is very rare. Does anyone know why that is?

I know it is relatively easy for people from the UN to get into SIPA (in fact, we get paid to take classes there and at NYU) but by looking at the employment statistics on SIPA's website, it is evident that if their graduates get jobs at the UN, they get them as Administrative Assistant. These statistics really make me question the decision to consider SIPA at all. The fact that most people in my Division have MBAs and don't even know what an MPP is doesn't help either.

I suppose my insistance on applying to top programs (WWS and HKS) comes from the fact that I am already working for the UN, I've interned with the US Government and managed to maintain a 4.0 GPA. I somehow feel that if I go back to school, only top program can really serve as a springboard to a more meaningful career in public service. Also, WWS and HKS appeal to me more, given their quantitative rigor and government affairs-oriented curriculum. At least, that is what both schools claim they focus on. Can can anybody here attest to this claim?

Hi Octavia,

If you don't mind, can you direct me to the SIPA page where you found the employment statistics? I've been meaning to find information on not only where graduates end up but what positions they get after SIPA. The latter has been more difficult to find. Thanks.

[Octavia]

Hi Octavia,

If you don't mind, can you direct me to the SIPA page where you found the employment statistics? I've been meaning to find information on not only where graduates end up but what positions they get after SIPA. The latter has been more difficult to find. Thanks.

Hi Econhawk,

Here they are:

http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/employment_statistics.html

For the most recent statistics for MIA, it looks like SIPA's grads are getting jobs WWS students had before they begun grad school: I mean it! Research assistant, consultant, analyst, really?! http://www.sipa.columbia.edu/resources_services/career_services/documents/MIA2009FinalStatistics.pdf

[Minerva473]

Hi Econhawk,

Here they are:

http://www.sipa.colu...statistics.html

For the most recent statistics for MIA, it looks like SIPA's grads are getting jobs WWS students had before they begun grad school: I mean it! Research assistant, consultant, analyst, really?! http://www.sipa.colu...lStatistics.pdf

I think that says more about who goes to SIPA than what SIPA can do for you. Having done a lot of staff recruitment for a nonprofit, my experience is that a master's degree alone is not going to get you into a high up position anywhere. Relevant previous experience is the most important thing; if you don't have that you will be entry level. My college roommate went to HKS and she got an analyst job with the State Department afterwards, because she went to HKS straight out of college.

I would venture to guess that WWS is the only place where there won't be a substantial portion of people who do not have the impressive CV you need to get a better job than the ones you mention.

I think the benefits of the master's degree are more long term -- hopefully it will help you do your job better and move up more quickly, you'll have a network that will support you in your career and you won't be excluded from roles that do require a master's (which you also need experience to be considered for).

[CreamTea]

I know this is an old thread but I just looked at the career statistics for 2011 and I was very concerned. The average age for most of the top programs is around 27 (HKS MPP is a bit lower) but the salaries that the SIPA MIA grads reported are low for 29 year olds. If they started SIPA at 27, they should have 3-5 years of work experience and they shouldn't be at entry level positions, right? Also, even the private sector salaries seem low for late twenty somethings with masters degrees. I worked for a bank (but not in investment banking) and the base for second year analysts (one year out of undergrad) was $65,000. I don't understand why their average salaries seem low. I would think it should be at least in the upper 80-90,000 for private sector jobs on average. The top performers would be getting over $100,000.

 

For the multilateral government jobs, it seems like a lot of people entered fellowships or consultant positions. Any updates from current/former SIPA students? How was the career services office?

[fenderpete]

Just as an aside, I really cannot speak highly enough about WWS's career services.

[CreamTea]

Can you be more specific fenderpete?

 

Does WWS secure interview slots exclusively for their students? (i.e. get the recruiter to come on campus and devote a day or two just interviewing WWS students) If so, which organizations are participating this year?

[ridofme]

I think these salary stats are the main reason that you see so many threads come March/April along the lines of "can I truly justify 100k+ loans for an MIA?" But you have to consider these salary stats based on expectations in the field. I have two friends who got masters in counseling-related fields. Both are licensed in our state, but are only making in the 35k range. Now neither of them went to Harvard, but noone providing mental health services to refugees is going to be making 100k right out the gate. In that field, you'd have to head an agency to see anything close.

If you want to make a bunch of money in private sector consulting, then you probably want to get an MBA. Getting an MIA or MPP would be circuitous route at best.
 

I also agree with what Minerva473 said:

 

I think that says more about who goes to SIPA than what SIPA can do for you.

 

Moreover, while someone getting an MBA might have been making 70k before going back to school, and wants to make it to six figures, SIPA students with "three years of work experience" were probably making 28k at a non-profit, so getting to 65k would actually be quite a jump.

[fenderpete]

Can you be more specific fenderpete?

 

Does WWS secure interview slots exclusively for their students? (i.e. get the recruiter to come on campus and devote a day or two just interviewing WWS students) If so, which organizations are participating this year?

 

As yet we haven't had recruiters visit (I'm just finishing up my first semester of four), I'm talking more in terms of our actual career services office.  We have an extremely strong alumni network and I've been blown away by our career department's ability to put us in touch with people at various organizations who have been extremely generous with their time and in offering advice.  It's been extremely easy for people to get set up for their summer internships etc.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want any further details.

[legallyproper]

As yet we haven't had recruiters visit (I'm just finishing up my first semester of four), I'm talking more in terms of our actual career services office.  We have an extremely strong alumni network and I've been blown away by our career department's ability to put us in touch with people at various organizations who have been extremely generous with their time and in offering advice.  It's been extremely easy for people to get set up for their summer internships etc.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want any further details.

 

Fenderpete - I applied to WWS just to see what would happen. I do not know if you remember me but we were both posting during our fall 2011 applications and such to grad schools. You can see in my signature that I'm currently in Budapest, Hungary doing an intensive 1-year master's and just honeslty want to see what the news will be in March from WWS.

[fenderpete]

I do indeed legallyproper - very good luck and let me know how you get on