Waiving right to look at letters?

[ConcreteBalloon]

Hi guys,

First post! So this is my first time applying to Philosophy programs in the States (I'm from Canada) and I made what I'm told is a mistake by not waiving my right to look at my letters of recommendation. The schools I applied to in particular are Princeton (for Political Philosophy PhD) and NYU (for Philosophy PhD). Just wondering if this is absolutely 100% murder for my applications or not?

[PhilCoffee]

I think the norm is to waive it, but I don't know whether not waiving the right would actually hurt your prospects. Maybe it only hurts your relationship with your letter writers, or maybe it hurts both? Curious about this.

[PolPhil]

10 hours ago, ConcreteBalloon said:

Hi guys,

First post! So this is my first time applying to Philosophy programs in the States (I'm from Canada) and I made what I'm told is a mistake by not waiving my right to look at my letters of recommendation. The schools I applied to in particular are Princeton (for Political Philosophy PhD) and NYU (for Philosophy PhD). Just wondering if this is absolutely 100% murder for my applications or not?

Yes, this is generally considered to be detrimental to your prospects. I think the idea is that the reader will be more likely to discount the letter (of course, it may be a matter of degree)

[ConcreteBalloon]

2 hours ago, PolPhil said:

Yes, this is generally considered to be detrimental to your prospects. I think the idea is that the reader will be more likely to discount the letter (of course, it may be a matter of degree)

What an inane system. Especially since I don't even see the letters unless I get in. Oh well, always next year!

[PolPhil]

Just now, ConcreteBalloon said:

What an inane system. Especially since I don't even see the letters unless I get in. Oh well, always next year!

I'm not sure that I agree that it's inane. They have to, by law, offer you the option to look at your letter. But I do believe that there is good reason for faculty and admissions committees to fully keep the letters out of the hands of students. Frankly, it's on you for not having checked.

[ConcreteBalloon]

1 minute ago, PolPhil said:

I'm not sure that I agree that it's inane. They have to, by law, offer you the option to look at your letter. But I do believe that there is good reason for faculty and admissions committees to fully keep the letters out of the hands of students. Frankly, it's on you for not having checked.

They have good reason to coerce you to waive a legal right? I can't imagine what that would be. Maybe more profs in the States offer up quid pro quos in their letters or something.

[PolPhil]

Just now, ConcreteBalloon said:

They have good reason to coerce you to waive a legal right? I can't imagine what that would be. Maybe more profs in the States offer up quid pro quos in their letters or something.

It's the same practice in Canada and the UK (and, as far as I know, in most places). Yes, they have a good reason. You need to provide some measure of protection for letter writers. They need to be able to speak honestly, without fear of angry students coming at them because they didn't talk them up enough.

[ConcreteBalloon]

1 minute ago, PolPhil said:

It's the same practice in Canada and the UK (and, as far as I know, in most places). Yes, they have a good reason. You need to provide some measure of protection for letter writers. They need to be able to speak honestly, without fear of angry students coming at them because they didn't talk them up enough.

They already deal with that sort of thing from students disgruntled with their grades anyway, I don't see the risk at all. In Canada I think there's a common practice of students asking to see their letters- I haven't done it but I think it would be seen as weird or suspicious for a prof to refuse. If profs are straight up lying about their students then I think students would be justifiably angry, and should therefore have a right to see them in any case. Clearly the more at-risk party here is the students due to the power differential (and the lack of, y'know, six-figure income and tenure). 

[PolPhil]

1 hour ago, ConcreteBalloon said:

They already deal with that sort of thing from students disgruntled with their grades anyway, I don't see the risk at all. In Canada I think there's a common practice of students asking to see their letters- I haven't done it but I think it would be seen as weird or suspicious for a prof to refuse. If profs are straight up lying about their students then I think students would be justifiably angry, and should therefore have a right to see them in any case. Clearly the more at-risk party here is the students due to the power differential (and the lack of, y'know, six-figure income and tenure). 

That's not true. Trust me, I've done a lot of grad school in Canada. The norm is the same.

Edited January 28, 2021 by PolPhil

[Outer Heaven]

It's a weird system and most professors do feel weird out if you don't waive the right. But meh.

[Potato Cactus]

I waived not because of social norms, but because I'd rather not read "____ is okay, which makes him a good fit for your program." 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Potato Cactus