Fear of Bombing the GRE

[newtothegame]

Anybody here bomb the GRE and still get in to a top 10 school? More specifically, anybody get scores of less than 600Q and 700V and still make the cut at places like Harvard and MIT?

I attend one of those institutions now and the admissions rep I spoke to said that other parts of my application can make up for deficiencies in my score but I am left wondering how this works in the poli sci world.

I'm taking the test next week so please let me know what your experience has been.

Thanks

[APGradApplicant]

Below 700 verbal (let's say it's 660-690) shouldn't kill one's chances of being admitted at a top-10 program. A 660 still puts an applicant close to the top five percent of test-takers. On the other hand, while I of course can't speak for adcoms at top programs, a score below the 600-mark on the quant section is pretty low. I remember talking to the Grad Director at a top-10 program last fall when I began the whole process (I'll be starting somewhere this fall) and he actually said that a 720 quant was a "little below average" for their program. I'm not saying this to be a downer- I know how stressful this whole process is having just gone through it- but I think it would be extremely difficult to get admitted to a program like Harvard or MIT with a a <600Q. If you take a look around the old posts from last admissions cycle and the one before that, you'll see a sprinkling here and there of applicants who offered up their scores and if you do a little more detective work, their later posts will often report their admissions results.

The good news about the GRE quant section, however, is that it's a HIGHLY teachable thing. The math concepts that one applies to arrive at the correct answers are really no more difficult than 8th grade Algebra I and 9th grade Geometry. The trick is to get used to the different "types" of questions that you'll see employed over and over again by the test-makers and to become comfortable confronting these with confidence. If you can do that, I don't see why you couldn't get a 700 or close to it (or even above it!). Obviously there are those "outlier" cases everywhere but I think taking the route I outlined is a much safer way to perhaps remedy your concerns about a low quant score.

PS- I just realized after writing this that you're taking the GRE next week. If you're not happy with your results, I would suggest simply taking it again.

[Meldroc]

Anybody here bomb the GRE and still get in to a top 10 school? More specifically, anybody get scores of less than 600Q and 700V and still make the cut at places like Harvard and MIT?

I attend one of those institutions now and the admissions rep I spoke to said that other parts of my application can make up for deficiencies in my score but I am left wondering how this works in the poli sci world.

I'm taking the test next week so please let me know what your experience has been.

Thanks

I feel your pain - I'll be taking the GRE sometime this summer while I figure out the whole application process. I'll definitely need to study up.

[newtothegame]

Thank you for the replies. I took the exam yesterday and did not do well, just as I feared. I scored a 670V and 440Q. After having a panic attack, I spoke to admissions folks and my academic advisor here at Harvard. They set my mind at ease about the test. They said the verbal score is great. The math is extremely low but faculty reviewing the application may take that to mean that I haven't done any math in a very long time. That goes to the poster who talked about the math portion being teachable. I believe it is but I also don't know if I could do much better.

As of this point, I do not plan to take the exam again. My advisor said that I should if I wanted to do so but that I shouldn't be anxious about it. If my AW score comes back low, then he said I really must retake it. If I get a 5 or 6, then the choice is mine.

I think I will wait to see the AW score and spend the rest of summer working on my SOP.

Good luck to all going through this rigamorole!

[Ferrero]

newtothegame, I would not rest your mind on the notion that admissions committees will give you a "mulligan." You have little hope of being admitted to a top 10 program with that quantitative score. You need to buckle down and retake it.

[anxiousapplicant]

I agree with Ferrero. I got a 730V, 600Q. A top-ten, HYP program which rejected me told me they threw out my application on the basis of either my GPA or my GRE (they did not read my SOP or my stellar letters of rec). My GPA is 3.98. You guess which score sank me.

[Jae B.]

For starters, you don't know how many people let "fear of bombing the GRE" stop them from taking the test completely. I know so many people who didn't take it -- myself included. (I never even took the SAT -- think I have a big test phobia or what? )

So be proud of yourself for taking the GRE in the first place.

That said, how much weight it bears depends on each individual school, department, program, and their admissions people for this particular year. The GRE might make all the difference for some schools, but may be no matter at all to others.

But I would say there seems to be a growing movement against standardized tests as the be-all end-all factor, a hopeful trend indeed. More and more schools, including top programs, feel they can judge you better on more qualitative aspects of your application, or doing their own program-specific testing rather than relying on the standardized GRE.

For example, one program I applied to (for 2010) required the GRE for the 2009 admissions cycle, and clearly stated that both your verbal and math scores would matter greatly in the admissions process. And this is for journalism, mind you.

But for the 2010 admissions cycle, after a little staff change, the same program decided not to even consider the GRE in the application process!

So, you never know. Good luck!

Edited June 5, 2010 by Jae B.

[kaykaykay]

I do not want to sound pessimistic but I think you should change advisors. best of luck in either way.

[expatbayern]

At the risk of feeding what I have a sneaking suspicion is an attempt to troll, here's something to think about before deciding not to re-take:

APGrad is correct that anyone can raise their quant score to a decent level, and all that it takes is putting in the work. Furthermore, the admissions committees know this. Do you really want their first thought in looking at your file to be "this is an applicant who isn't willing/able to put in the work and do a little bit of studying/preparation"?

In all seriousness, a 440 Q is (per wikipedia) in the 18th percentile--you're in the bottom fifth of all test-takers. To get in the upper half of test takers (which seems a reasonable goal for any relatively competitive program), you need a 620 Q (this is equivalent to a 460 V). To get in the upper third, you need a 700 Q (520 V). To get in the upper fourth (here we're just starting to talk about having any shot at the very top tier), you need a 720 Q (560 V).

You're verbal score is 95th percentile--completely respectable. Ideally, to feel you had a solid shot at top-10 programs, you'd want your quant score at the same level (remember, these schools probably admit at best 10 percent of their applicants), but this unfortunately requires an 800 Q. A more reasonable goal might be to aim for the low 700s--then you're in the 70th to 80th percentile. Admissions committees will see that improvement and feel more confident you're able to study effectively and handle the work of grad school (it wouldn't hurt if your verbal bounced 30 to 50 points as well on a second attempt, either).

For what it's worth, I had 99th percentile on the verbal and an 800 Q, with near-perfect GPA from both undergrad and a top-tier MA, plus strong letters from name faculty, and my best results at any of the traditional top-10 schools were waitlists.

Oh, and no one cares what your AW score is. Committees will read your SoP and writing sample to determine if you can write.

[newtothegame]

Thanks for all the replies. I will be retaking the test next month. Time to hire a private tutor. Considering this is the last time I will have to take one of the darned exams, I will give it my best shot. I have read up on many of the programs I am interested and contacted their admissions people. Most say that I should take retake the exam.

Anybody have any suggestions for websites to study? I need a tutor but can't afford to break the bank hiring one for endless hours. Suggestions appreciated.

By the way, I'm not a troll. I am a Harvard student genuinely interested in raising my score. To those of you that are actually offering genuine help, thank you. Expat, try to let the paranoia go when offering advice on these boads. Your "sneaking suspicion" couldn't be farther from the mark.

Good luck to all on the applications!

[mrmirv]

Thanks for all the replies. I will be retaking the test next month. Time to hire a private tutor. Considering this is the last time I will have to take one of the darned exams, I will give it my best shot. I have read up on many of the programs I am interested and contacted their admissions people. Most say that I should take retake the exam.

Anybody have any suggestions for websites to study? I need a tutor but can't afford to break the bank hiring one for endless hours. Suggestions appreciated.

By the way, I'm not a troll. I am a Harvard student genuinely interested in raising my score. To those of you that are actually offering genuine help, thank you. Expat, try to let the paranoia go when offering advice on these boads. Your "sneaking suspicion" couldn't be farther from the mark.

Good luck to all on the applications!

I have done a lot of reading on what it takes to get into a top ten program like a harvard or MIT. You need to get that score into the 600's at a minimum. I am aiming at Brown and I want a 700 each before I even put in the application.

[mrmirv]

I have done a lot of reading on what it takes to get into a top ten program like a harvard or MIT. You need to get that score into the 600's at a minimum. I am aiming at Brown and I want a 700 each before I even put in the application.

typo...I have a 700 each and I would not apply anywhere in the top 30 without that sort of score. I studied a good 2 hours a day for 2 months. Its just dedication and getting the right books. You can do it

[StudentForever]

Thanks for all the replies. I will be retaking the test next month. Time to hire a private tutor. Considering this is the last time I will have to take one of the darned exams, I will give it my best shot. I have read up on many of the programs I am interested and contacted their admissions people. Most say that I should take retake the exam.

Anybody have any suggestions for websites to study? I need a tutor but can't afford to break the bank hiring one for endless hours. Suggestions appreciated.

By the way, I'm not a troll. I am a Harvard student genuinely interested in raising my score. To those of you that are actually offering genuine help, thank you. Expat, try to let the paranoia go when offering advice on these boads. Your "sneaking suspicion" couldn't be farther from the mark.

Good luck to all on the applications!

I attend a top-20 program in political science. The way admissions starts for my program is a simple cut at a specified number for GRE scores in both quantitative and verbal. To even be considered here, you need to score at least a 690 in math (lowest score of anybody's I've heard in the last several years). I have no doubt some programs are indeed moving away from standardized tests; however, I think the top-20 programs are going to be the last to do so as they have high application rates with really competitive applicants. They need some way to winnow down the field without expending resources.

The way I studied for the GRE was inexpensive -- bought several GRE study books from Border's, read through all the books, did the practice questions, and took the practice exams. It really refreshed me on math as I hadn't taken a math course for 3 years. I really don't see a need for any student (especially a Harvard student...stereotype, I know) to go out and hire a private tutor. A month is plenty of time to study on your own. I think you simply jumped the gun and took the exam too early; I took it around Labor Day weekend. Relax, inhale some sweet oxygen, buy some study books, and buckle down.

[Charlie2010]

You really want to get both over 650V and 700Q to avoid getting axed without a second look at top-ten places. If you had a great performance and strong recommendations from Harvard they'll probably look anyway, but you'll be facing an uphill battle. There is a lot you can do on the Q, especially, just by buying books and working through lots of practice questions. Might make sense to spend a good 80 hours doing this before paying for a tutor.

[gsams]

You need to retake it. Part of the test is just knowing the format. And if you are like me, it is just comfortably being able to do well.

I took the test on the week after I returned from being home sick with Swine Flu. I was still getting back to normal and couldn't study when ill. I didn't do the best (well, but not what I wanted).

I went back and was in better health (although this time dealing with food poisoning! Awesome!) and also knew the format. I did SOOOO much better and impproved my quant score by 100 points.

Time yourself and take practice tests. The test isn't about thinking at all. It is about knowing how to take a test, basically.

[applying12010]

I think you need 700 in both sections to make sure that your file gets read for a top 10. Some of the schools list lower average scores for verbal for example, but I don't know, people whom I met who got into those programs generally have higher GRE scores than the average scores that were reported...

I actually took my GRE while I had a horrible cold/ fever. And I took too much cold medicine right before the exam (I wanted to suppress the fever so that I can take it), which gave me bad diarrhea during the exam (side effect of the medicine if you take large doses of it). I actually to run to the bathroom several time, and I still had my fever. I still survived and managed to do ok! So don't be nervous, you will be ok! At least you don't have to take the GRE sick!

[poli90]

Retake retake retake! I seriously doubt you could get into any decent (top 25) polisci program with 440 Q. Remember you will be competing with students who have everything else you have going for you (GPA, letters, pedigree) plus near perfect GRE scores. I didn't do any math after high school, and with a little bit of studying was able to get 740 on the quant.

[tskinner]

If you are really struggling beyond help, you may think about taking a year off (maybe taking some community college math courses) and waiting until next August to retake the GRE. They're completely changing the format (no more analogies or antonyms!).

[oasis]

For what it's worth, I had 99th percentile on the verbal and an 800 Q, with near-perfect GPA from both undergrad and a top-tier MA, plus strong letters from name faculty, and my best results at any of the traditional top-10 schools were waitlists.

This is the scariest thing I've read all week. *crisis of confidence*

[bjoern7700]

Hi,

I would need your advice on getting into one of the top 10 schools in political science / international relations (Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, Stanford, etc.).

1. master in IR from Cambridge, UK (pass)

2. valedictorian of French National School of Administration

3. 6 years of work experience with the United Nations, the European Parliament and the diplomatic service

4. GRE: 560 (V) and 760 (V)

5. French national

Thanks!

[Count de Monet]

I was really hoping that when they said they were going to redo the GRE, that they'd create two tests: One for people in more math related fields (engineering, physics, etc) and then one for people in humanities, poli-sci, etc. The reason for this is that if you look at the breakdown of scores you have people in engineering, physics, etc scoring an average score in the low 700s. That dramatically shifts the total average on the quant section up high. The first time i took the GRE I got the exact same score for my quant and verbal, but the percentiles were 40% apart. It's almost absurd.

However, if you take a look specifically at people who took the GRE and were going into humanities or poli-sci the average quant score was in the low-mid 600s. Big difference. It's really a bad system to have almost everyone going into grad school taking the same test.