Transfer PhD Program or Remain

[beyondthestream]

Hi everyone. I began my PhD program this past Fall at what is a top four ranked program in my 'general' field of study within Philosophy. I was not accepted at the other top two programs I was interested in. I thought things would go well, because the program initially showed a great deal of interest in the specific areas I am interested in, but unfortunately this has not been the case. Without going into too much detail for reasons of discretion, this program has essentially stopped offering many courses that are in my specific area as they did in the past and many of the professors who have remained in the department are very inflexible. I have just enough allies to form a dissertation committee, but so far it feels like a constant uphill battle. When I presented an idea for a final paper to a professor, I received the response "that cannot count as Philosophy," despite the fact that the idea was analogous to the paper I wrote as my writing sample and would fit easily at the other two departments I did not get into. I've had professors in other classes treat my ideas as a distraction, or inapplicable, when I know they are major themes at other departments. Furthermore, I've noticed the students here tend to re-affirm what the department imposes on them as opposed to creating their own projects. It's staggering to me how many upper year students seem to be writing dissertations that could have been written by their professors in the 50s-80s. Personally, I know what my interests are and I continue to educated myself outside of my courses and I do not plan to acquiesce to this structure where the professors essentially impose what they want students to study onto them. I know that I will write my dissertation on what I am interested in, but I am wondering if, down the road, it will be a significant liability that I have essentially had to 'self-teach' these topics to me because my institution is not displaying the interest in the topics it initially did. Would it be advisable to try transferring to one of the other two schools? I am worried about burning bridges in the process, and I am not sure they would accept me given they did not in the past, but I am trying to gauge if it would be worth a shot to do so after I finish my MA at my current program.  What it comes down to for me is if it is worth it to simply 'swim against the grain' at my program for 6 years or if it would be more advisable for career reasons to try to transfer sooner rather than later. 

Thank you in advance for the advice. 

[CompleatAutocerebroscopist]

That was a poignant statement.

Can anyone shed light on the "costs" of trying to transfer? Let's say OP tried to transfer, doesn't get into the target program, and decided to complete their PhD at their current program--any considerable downside to this, or would it just blow over? If the latter, definitely go for it.

[Mischief]

This sounds like a deeply frustrating situation, I'm sorry to hear you're dealing with this. Could you say a little bit more about what area specifically you are talking about? It's hard to imagine being admitted somewhere while simultaneously conceiving of what counts as a philosophy paper in fundamentally different terms from the department tenor--that's pretty radical, and beyond the more recognizable problem of the department members no longer caring very much about a research area.

Regarding transferring: I did this and I'm much happier. Would be fine to chat more about it if it's material, but it sounds like you might be in a situation much, much worse than anything I encountered.

[hogsfrombeyond]

I think you should try to transfer if you can. If not, make connections with other departments at your university--a lot of the work in philosophy is being done in lit programs, religious studies, environmental studies..the list goes on. If you are working on a more STEM-related area, even then, other deps can be much friendlier and more willing to help build up your ideas rather than tear them down. Keep plugging along, friend!

[hector549]

On 1/11/2022 at 8:36 AM, beyondthestream said:

Hi everyone. I began my PhD program this past Fall at what is a top four ranked program in my 'general' field of study within Philosophy. I was not accepted at the other top two programs I was interested in. I thought things would go well, because the program initially showed a great deal of interest in the specific areas I am interested in, but unfortunately this has not been the case. Without going into too much detail for reasons of discretion, this program has essentially stopped offering many courses that are in my specific area as they did in the past and many of the professors who have remained in the department are very inflexible. I have just enough allies to form a dissertation committee, but so far it feels like a constant uphill battle. When I presented an idea for a final paper to a professor, I received the response "that cannot count as Philosophy," despite the fact that the idea was analogous to the paper I wrote as my writing sample and would fit easily at the other two departments I did not get into. I've had professors in other classes treat my ideas as a distraction, or inapplicable, when I know they are major themes at other departments. Furthermore, I've noticed the students here tend to re-affirm what the department imposes on them as opposed to creating their own projects. It's staggering to me how many upper year students seem to be writing dissertations that could have been written by their professors in the 50s-80s. Personally, I know what my interests are and I continue to educated myself outside of my courses and I do not plan to acquiesce to this structure where the professors essentially impose what they want students to study onto them. I know that I will write my dissertation on what I am interested in, but I am wondering if, down the road, it will be a significant liability that I have essentially had to 'self-teach' these topics to me because my institution is not displaying the interest in the topics it initially did. Would it be advisable to try transferring to one of the other two schools? I am worried about burning bridges in the process, and I am not sure they would accept me given they did not in the past, but I am trying to gauge if it would be worth a shot to do so after I finish my MA at my current program.  What it comes down to for me is if it is worth it to simply 'swim against the grain' at my program for 6 years or if it would be more advisable for career reasons to try to transfer sooner rather than later. 

Thank you in advance for the advice. 

I think it depends. What you've written is a little vague, but I gather that you have people that you can work with. That's the most important thing--that you have a good, supportive advisor, and can put together a committee.

You're also in your first year. Things may change. Your interests could evolve. You probably don't know all the faculty in your department yet. You've barely started your program. My advice is to give it some time before thinking about jumping ship.

Whatever programs you're thinking about trying to transfer to will have other issues. Every program does to some extent. Make sure that whatever issues your program has are really going to be a problem before you spend a lot of money and time starting over somewhere else.

[xypathos]

I'll share limited advice as I transferred PhD programs but in Religious Studies:

1) You need to leave on good terms with your current program. You'll need at least one LOR from them. If you can't get one it's likely to trigger a red flag for someone.

2) Be prepared to essentially start over. I went into one program with a MA and got 12 credits. Did two years and left with the blessing of the program and all of my LORs came from them. My final school (I'm done and graduated, working) accepted 9 credits from my previous PhD program.

3) Socially, it was weird AF. I came in with enough credits to be a second year but felt like a first year (yet struggled to relate with them), yet also felt ready for Comps.

Because of #2, if you're going to transfer, I'd do it sooner rather than later. That said, bailing year one does look weird but you also need to protect the integrity of what you want to research and not settle for something less. I had an advisor in my MA that shared a story of having to completely retool their dissertation b/c the people qualified to supervise it had left and the school didn't replace them. Got it done, hated every step of the process!

Find a confidant you can speak to, maybe the Director of Graduate Studies for the department, just share your struggle. You need someone more experienced to help you walk through this process. I was lucky in that my advisor at School #1 was best friends with my soon to be advisor at School #2, and they walked through me through the application process and Advisor #2 planned out my studies to try and recoup time lost.