Where you would live, where you wouldn't... (job placement after phd)

[njw]

I was wondering if anybody else, especially perhaps older students who have seen a little more of what the world has to offer thinks about the academic job market in terms of location.

Personally that is one of, if not my main fear in whether to pursue the PhD or not. My current pursuit is a terminal masters program.

I had mentioned in another thread that I am a non typical older student, in this time I've grown a particular affinity for a certain urban lifestyle that only certain cities in the U.S. offer. i.e. I would probably like to be in the greater New York/Boston/Philadelphia stretch or the Chicago market. I probably would not be happy elsewhere. Actually, I KNOW I wouldn't be, been there, done that. Also my partner given their profession needs access to a large market as well as having built up a good deal of friends/colleagues and/or family in those regions. If I were to be offered an assistant professorship or tenure, I would rather be in a less prestigious school in somewhere I enjoyed living vs. more prestigious in an environment I didn't like.

Where is the job market harder to break into? Big cities? Or college towns? Are there regional differences? Does anybody else feel similar in regards to the academic job market and where you might end up?

Edited July 20, 2010 by njw

[JustChill]

I don't know what your field is, but in my field the market is extra lean. Realistically speaking, I know that I'll be lucky to have more than one offer after I receive my PhD, so I'm by no means going to limit myself geographically. As most people, I have some geographical preferences based on my past experiences, but I will go to almost any part of the country for an assistant professorship or tenure (despite the fact that I'm studying in a "top" program, for what it's worth).

Edited July 20, 2010 by JustChill

[captiv8ed]

I plan to limit myself. I am an older student with kids and we love the area we are in. Even if it means a compromise in the type of job I get, I will be geographically restricted.

The area you are looking at seems pretty large with a lot of job options, so I would think you'd be okay.

[njw]

I plan to limit myself. I am an older student with kids and we love the area we are in. Even if it means a compromise in the type of job I get, I will be geographically restricted.

The area you are looking at seems pretty large with a lot of job options, so I would think you'd be okay.

I am older and know what I like, have plenty of friends here, more in Chicago than NY/Boston (but I like it in NY/Boston/Philly) also... I have to also look in my partners interest also (I live with them) so can't be in somewhere that she can't get a job easily. I've already gone that route and ended up moving 6 months later OUCH. I would also compromise on the type of job if it meant that. I would prefer to just stay in Chicago but know its harder to do that. Good to hear I am not the only one thinking this way .A lot of places for us would be a step backwards, and I really don't want to do that.

Edited July 23, 2010 by njw

[UnlikelyGrad]

I was wondering if anybody else, especially perhaps older students who have seen a little more of what the world has to offer thinks about the academic job market in terms of location.

Personally that is one of, if not my main fear in whether to pursue the PhD or not. My current pursuit is a terminal masters program.

I had mentioned in another thread that I am a non typical older student, in this time I've grown a particular affinity for a certain urban lifestyle that only certain cities in the U.S. offer. i.e. I would probably like to be in the greater New York/Boston/Philadelphia stretch or the Chicago market. I probably would not be happy elsewhere. Actually, I KNOW I wouldn't be, been there, done that. Also my partner given their profession needs access to a large market as well as having built up a good deal of friends/colleagues and/or family in those regions. If I were to be offered an assistant professorship or tenure, I would rather be in a less prestigious school in somewhere I enjoyed living vs. more prestigious in an environment I didn't like.

Where is the job market harder to break into? Big cities? Or college towns? Are there regional differences? Does anybody else feel similar in regards to the academic job market and where you might end up?

IF you are willing to take any academic job, then a big city should work fine for you. I know someone who had the "two-body problem"-- his wife already had a tenure-track job in NYC when he went on the academic market. He ended up getting a job at a place with no grad students, so will have to put up with undergrad researchers only. He is not particularly happy about that part but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

And I should add that my superstar little sis turned down job offers from some big names (top 10) because she (and her husband, too) didn't want to live in those areas. She is now at a middle-tier school in an area she loves.

[juilletmercredi]

I'm the type of doctoral student that would rather be in a particular kind of area - and do any kind of research job there - than follow the academic job market to whatever it takes me. For instance, I'm not willing to be a professor in Mountain Home, Iowa. I'd take a non-academic position in New York before I moved to a rural area just to be a professor.

Anyway, where would I want to live? in order of preference:

1. Atlanta (where I'm from) metro

2. New York/Philadelphia metropolitan area

3. Washington D.C. metropolitan area

4. Anywhere else on the East Coast between DC and Miami

5. New Orleans area

6. Boston area

7. Austin, San Antonio, Houston, or Dallas, in that order

8. Portland/Seattle/Pacific Northwest

9. Chicago

I'd also be happy at a place with no graduate researchers. If I become a professor, I want to work with undergraduates mainly.

[rachaelski]

I really love where we live (New Mexico), but there are not very many schools here, with my institution being the flagship school. I am looking to teach, so I would gladly take a position at a community college or smaller 4-year school. My field is education (from a sociocultural perspective, but I also have my master's in southeast asian studies, with my dissertation research location being SEA, and I am hoping to do some post-grad work on SEA to make me dually qualified to teach education and Asian Studies courses. Gotta be marketable! If necessary I think we'll move, but it would have to be somewhere with a film industry for my husband...

[coyabean]

Ooooh, good question. As a non-trad I have written here, extensively, about the importance of space and place in my decisions and my mental health. That is to say that, yes, I've thought about it!

I am a college town girl all the way. Even when not in school I'm in school. It's where the world makes sense to me. So, ideally, no commuter schools or, God forbid, one of those schools in an office park or building. That pretty much makes Chapel Hill and Ann Arbor my dream places. But, being a Southern girl and having so much of my research tied to some of the demography and history specific to the region Chapel Hill is the real dream. I love Chapel Hill. Them not having a competitive program in my fields of interest was a big disappointment. BUT, I am going to a peer institution so maybe there's hope that I'll end up there again one day. Although, I can imagine falling in love with Atlanta when I get there soon and maybe making it my home.

Beyond that a walkable community is becoming more and more essential to my general well-being. Walking is how I manage my weight and my stress level. Being able to incorporate that into my daily life so that I don't have to spend hours on a treadmill like a trapped rat would be nice. I also like temperate weather, diversity and the typical idyllic kind of community: clean, accessible, amenities. I was born in NY and have lived in Chicago and spent a great deal of time in DC. All of that taught me that seeing the beauty in urban landscapes is a particular talent with which I was not blessed. I mean, I can see the beauty in the people and the resources but the idea of living in an old, cramped, decaying building and struggling to find space in a place with such limited space makes me crazy. Three days in Manhattan a few weeks ago and my sinuses were closed, my nose hairs were half singed by the stench of garbage and I would have killed to hear a "hey!" as I walked the streets.

I love the energy of an urban place, though. So a place with some balance between energy that comes from good planning and critical mass without all the ugly stuff. And three bookstores on every four corners. LOL

As far as work in the future goes I am flexible...to a point. That point is my mental well-being. Some snark but I have lived a little while and I have learned that you have nothing if you don't have your health. I interpret health broadly to include my well-being.

I would absolutely take a less prestigious offer in a great place over a high-powered one in a stressful area. For example, I know some won't believe me but I hate Duke and Harvard. I've done work at one and have been to the other and something about both the area and the culture make me ill. Now, this is being said without an actual offer to contend with but I think I'd be hard pressed to suck it up for either locations even though they are two of the crow jewels of academia. I think I'd go into private sector or non-profit work first.

Edited July 26, 2010 by coyabean

[juilletmercredi]

Coya, if you like Chapel Hill I think you'll like Atlanta - it's not so much of a college town, but it has a perfect mix of the vibrancy of a big city and the laid-backness of a nice Southern town. It's definitely not walkable, though. But if you like the energy of an urban place with nice planning and yet without the ugly stuff, Atlanta's where it's at.

As far as New York - I love urban landscapes and I think tall buildings and sparkling lights are far more attractive than large open fields and farms. However, it's the intensity of New York that is getting on my nerves. This city - just the energy of it, the vibe - it's stressful, and it makes ME stressed out and sort of nervous. That's why I'm really looking forward to escaping to a smaller city when I move away from here, and living the suburban lifestyle.

I also agree with you - I wouldn't work at Harvard.