Working on 2011 - what are my chances?

[okokokok]

I just graduated summa cum laude from a really, really mediocre state school (like, 65% acceptance rate, no PhD program in history, etc.). I just started working my applications for 2011 and I'm worried that it's just totally impractical for me to even spend the $1,000 applying? Here are some stats:

Overall GPA: 3.8

History GPA: 3.8

LOR: Hopefully really great - two were all offered to me before I even asked. However, the professors are both relatively unknown. They publish, but not much.

Writing Sample: I'm working on revising a paper (my school, for more reference, does not even have an "Honors Thesis" option, so this is all I've got...). I have a professor working with me through the revision - hopefully it will be relatively decent in the end.

Personal Statement: I'm also working REALLY HARD on this and two former professors have offered to read it when I'm done drafting - I will probably give it to a third.

GRE: I'm registered for mid October and SCARED TO DEATH that I will end up with like, an 800...

--

I am worried that, because my undergrad school was kind of crappy and unknown, my GPA and letters (or even my whole application) won't be taken seriously? Does this make sense? Have any of you hailed from similar undergrad schools and received acceptance into (funded) PhD programs? I'm not really set on a top 10 or even 20 programs - I want a school that is a good, comfortable fit.

Here's what I have on my list:

History PhDs (top choices) --

University of South Carolina

Temple University

University of California at Santa Barbara

CUNY Graduate School and University Center

University of Pennsylvania

University of Delaware

University of Minnesota

Other MAs (all programs related to my interests, but it would be real hard for me to find funding...) --

University of Maryland College Park

William & Mary

University of Texas at Austin

New York University

University College London

Griffith University

What do you think? Feel free to be TOTALLY HONEST!

[JustChill]

None of us can tell you anything with any certainty, but I would like to comment that your choice of schools, especially for the PhD, is very reasonable and realistic. Don't ever assume that you won't get into "better" schools because your undergrad institution is not on the same level or your professors aren't superstars. Some things are more likely than others, but anything is possible. I strongly suggest adding a couple of "reach" schools, from the top-20 range, that have faculty who match your interests well.

[American in Beijing]

I just graduated summa cum laude from a really, really mediocre state school (like, 65% acceptance rate, no PhD program in history, etc.). I just started working my applications for 2011 and I'm worried that it's just totally impractical for me to even spend the $1,000 applying? Here are some stats:

Overall GPA: 3.8

History GPA: 3.8

LOR: Hopefully really great - two were all offered to me before I even asked. However, the professors are both relatively unknown. They publish, but not much.

Writing Sample: I'm working on revising a paper (my school, for more reference, does not even have an "Honors Thesis" option, so this is all I've got...). I have a professor working with me through the revision - hopefully it will be relatively decent in the end.

Personal Statement: I'm also working REALLY HARD on this and two former professors have offered to read it when I'm done drafting - I will probably give it to a third.

GRE: I'm registered for mid October and SCARED TO DEATH that I will end up with like, an 800...

--

I am worried that, because my undergrad school was kind of crappy and unknown, my GPA and letters (or even my whole application) won't be taken seriously? Does this make sense? Have any of you hailed from similar undergrad schools and received acceptance into (funded) PhD programs? I'm not really set on a top 10 or even 20 programs - I want a school that is a good, comfortable fit.

Here's what I have on my list:

History PhDs (top choices) --

University of South Carolina

Temple University

University of California at Santa Barbara

CUNY Graduate School and University Center

University of Pennsylvania

University of Delaware

University of Minnesota

Other MAs (all programs related to my interests, but it would be real hard for me to find funding...) --

University of Maryland College Park

William & Mary

University of Texas at Austin

New York University

University College London

Griffith University

What do you think? Feel free to be TOTALLY HONEST!

I think you definitely have a shot! Your professors seem very supportive of your application, which is definitely a good sign. They know you and your abilities much better than we ever could.

I know the application process can be a bit demoralizing. But have confidence in yourself! You seem to have drive and determination, which in reality is half the battle. Just make sure you keep that determination up by any means possible. Take a break if it gets overwhelming. Stand in front of the mirror and tell yourself how wonderful you are. You can do it! Believe in yourself!

[Ceiba]

I felt compelled to sign up and respond to your post because I was in virtually the same position last year. I, as well, graduated from an unknown state school and was terrified about sending applications to higher ranked programs. Our GPA's are also nearly identical - I graduated with an overall GPA of 3.9 and a History GPA of 4.0. I am also an Americanist.

After a good deal of needling from my professors and working up some confidence, I applied to one top 10 program, five programs in the 10-25 range, and two local programs. I was accepted into six schools (five fully funded) and rejected from the other two. I was accepted with a five-year fellowship at the top 10 school and that is where I will be attending in the fall. The gist of the story? DON'T SELL YOURSELF SHORT! Several bits of advice I would offer:

- I think your undergraduate institution does matter but it won't rule you out of any grad school program either. With that said, the rest of your application needs be sterling or close to it.

- The dreaded GRE's. If applying to top 25 schools, just make sure your verbal and analytical are above or around the 90th percentile. I don't want to discourage you from studying on the quantitative (you'll often hear it can come up when making fellowship decisions) but I am walking proof that most history programs don't really care about your quantitative score. Also, look around department websites. Some schools, like the University of Washington, actually post the median scores of recent admits.

- I completely agree with American in Beijing's assessment that support from professors is a reliable indicator of your grad school prospects. Ask them for help when it comes to whittling down your list of schools or adding programs you previously didn't consider.

- I have no way of knowing this for sure but I think my writing sample was the biggest reason for my admits. With that said, I did have the benefit of having a senior seminar that endlessly vetted the paper. Regardless, it seems like you're on the right track by working closely with a faculty member. Most faculty won't be crazy about reading your 20+ page paper but try to get as many eyes to go through it as you can. One faculty member who researches in my sub-field was invaluable to sharpening up my paper.

- In terms of your statement of purpose, it sounds like you already know how important it is. I found this UC Berkeley guide helpful to getting an idea of how mine should be structured.

- Do NOT apply to MA programs. This was the very first thing faculty members talked me out of. I understand that some students have been able to enter MA programs and eventually find funding but these stories seem less commonplace as of late. With so many departments slashing funding, PhD students get any money that is available.

- I used the US News rankings above to give you a broad idea of the programs I applied to but don't let them consume your decision. In terms of research interests, I was a strong fit at every University I applied to. Try to make sure you can say the same.

It sounds like you're headed in the right direction and I wish you the best of luck!

[TMP]

It's tough out there.

Although I did graduated from a top-20 LAC with decent GPA, I ran into several key issues when I tried to apply for PhD the first time around. Professors in PhD programs were very concerned about my writing sample and languages (I was applying for American history with a focus on an ethnic population). No one mentioned the GRE even though I did awful. Hm. Then I decided to go for MA, unfunded. I was just too anxious to go to a grad school in the fall and didn't know what else to do (you're so smart to take off this year!). The rejections were coupled by the fact that my LAC professors didn't publish much even though they wrote very good LORs. I think that if the adcoms don't know your LOR writers well, they'll pay more attention to your SOP, writing sample, and GPA. (Of course, that's when the economy was doing fine so it seemed okay to take out loans at the time...)

I went a top graduate school for my MA, got my languages under belt, and wrote a knock-out thesis. I went through the process again for this fall, with everything anew except for my GRE scores. I got waitlisted at 2 places- I was thrilled, really because of the increased competition. I didn't even expect to be waitlist at a top-20! I was still disappointed though, exacerbated by the fact that my adviser had a student who graduated and was trying for the same spots and she had gotten in 3 of the programs that we applied to together, including my dream school (which I was waitlisted). So I came out with mixed feelings.

Nonetheless, my professors are still supportive as they have read the final product of my MA thesis. They were disappointed as well but urged me to try again. All (but my adviser) want me to re-take the GRE and said just to shot for 650 (about 85%) and stop it there. Still, it's intimidating to me at the thought of trying to raise over 200 points on one section. Otherwise, the rest of my application was quite solid, even my SOP.

So here I am, conquering my fears of the GRE. And I'm actually pleased with my progress. Just go into it easy. Take a practice exam and find out your weak spots. If it's vocab related, study those roots- they will help you pick up vocabulary quite fast. Of course, part of it is that now I don't have anything else distracting me! So I am able to focus on it quite a bit.

Nobody wants to admit it but a low GRE verbal CAN keep you out in some respect. I'd like to think that if not department politics at my wait-list schools, it was my GRE that determined my place on the waitlist. Just thinking about this makes me want to try really hard and *kill* the GRE because I was just *that* close.

If you want the PhD, you will push through anything. Because if you don't and let your fears get the best of you, then you won't be doing yourself any justice.

[okokokok]

Thanks everyone! I think I'll take off a few of the MAs and replace them with a few more kind of higher ranked programs.

I feel like I kind of had a big fish / small sea thing going on through my undergrad and now that is countered with reading about really qualified people being rejected everywhere - so I am maybe constantly teetering between being overly confident and and being terrified of impending failure.

Anyway, this is all good advice and I really appreciate the feedback!! Really!

[Riotbeard]

Thanks everyone! I think I'll take off a few of the MAs and replace them with a few more kind of higher ranked programs.

I feel like I kind of had a big fish / small sea thing going on through my undergrad and now that is countered with reading about really qualified people being rejected everywhere - so I am maybe constantly teetering between being overly confident and and being terrified of impending failure.

Anyway, this is all good advice and I really appreciate the feedback!! Really!

I was in a similar situation to you also. Coming from a less than renound school just means you have to tighten your application package. It took two go rounds for me but I had a very successful second app season.

Also the faculty at South Carolina is amazing (I almost went there). They are a really underrated program. Great if you are going the Southern history route, but U.S. in general is good.

[♀HealthMatters]

I'd love to say I'm in the same situation, but my UGPA is low (3.2) and I went to Agnes Scott College - listed tier one, but no one has heard of it. My GRE scores were low. I was rejected outright from all of the schools I applied to last year. I'm dedicated, so here I go again!

Since the last application cycle, I've had a paper accepted to a conference (this October!), and I've been working towards a graduate certificate in women's studies. So far, that GPA is 4.0. One of the courses was a history grad course, and that prof offered a LOR. I've also made better contacts within departments. Oh, and that GRE class may or may not count for something. I hate that test!

I am visiting several schools and doing interviews. I hope that helps, too! For us doing a second round of applications, it shows a lot. We never gave up, we have come back to our passion. It demonstrates that we are dedication and a greater sense of purpose, especially if we can demonstrate that we tried to bolster our credentials even in the face of rejection. -- At least, I hope so. Here's to us!

[KScrooge]

I too am making my second attempt. Unfortunately the department I'm at right now, finishing my MA, is giving mixed signals (I think they are all preoccupied with the massive budget cuts courtesy of a new governor). While I have solid support from several faculty members, some think that anyone with less than a 4.0 needn't bother pursuing a PhD (really I don't see a problem with my 3.83). When I applied to PhD programs 2 years ago, I definitely had little to offer. I had a great GPA, but my LoR weren't from anyone well-known and my GRE scores were only good, not great. I'm hoping to fix that this time around.

My question is how important do you think interviews are? I'm debating contacting departments that aren't a flight away. I'm also concerned about gpa. The school I'm at now offers As followed by B+s. They alter the numeric equivalent for this, but it's still confusing. My gpa is summa cum laude, but my transcript will reveal less than As. Would this be of concern to anyone? Besides that I have some well-known, published professors offering to write my LoR, and I'm retaking my GREs next month to bump my verbal score from its current 660. I've even spent the money to register for a foreign language class to brush up on my German skills. Here's hoping second time is the charm, not the third =)

[Riotbeard]

I too am making my second attempt. Unfortunately the department I'm at right now, finishing my MA, is giving mixed signals (I think they are all preoccupied with the massive budget cuts courtesy of a new governor). While I have solid support from several faculty members, some think that anyone with less than a 4.0 needn't bother pursuing a PhD (really I don't see a problem with my 3.83). When I applied to PhD programs 2 years ago, I definitely had little to offer. I had a great GPA, but my LoR weren't from anyone well-known and my GRE scores were only good, not great. I'm hoping to fix that this time around.

My question is how important do you think interviews are? I'm debating contacting departments that aren't a flight away. I'm also concerned about gpa. The school I'm at now offers As followed by B+s. They alter the numeric equivalent for this, but it's still confusing. My gpa is summa cum laude, but my transcript will reveal less than As. Would this be of concern to anyone? Besides that I have some well-known, published professors offering to write my LoR, and I'm retaking my GREs next month to bump my verbal score from its current 660. I've even spent the money to register for a foreign language class to brush up on my German skills. Here's hoping second time is the charm, not the third =)

I think interviews can be helpful to you but are not by any means required or expected. I didn't previously contact any of the faculty at the school I am starting at prior to acceptance. Also my GPA was a 3.9 something in history and a 3.8 overall, and I got fellowships or TA-ships from a good couple of schools. I don't think the cum laude matters that much, so much as your transcripts but if you graduated summa, I am sure all your grades are good even if there are a few non-As. It looks like you are decent track to apply to grad school to me. Your verbal score is pretty good (it isn't going to be a huge set back as is, but a bump up would never hurt). Also ask profs who may not be your LOR writer but you have a good relationship to drop an e-mail to any faculty they might now at places you are applying. I got along really well with the German Witch Hunt prof at my undergrad but I do Southern, so it was not ideal for him to write my LORs but he dropped colleagues a line at schools were he had friends. All of these things are helpful, but in general you seem on the right track but it is the intangibles that are the most important. Scores and GPA only get your foot in the door, it is the LORs, writing sample, and SOPs that will decide whether you get in. Also remember that you only have to get into one place, even if it's your last choice to keep going and make a name for yourself in academia. Good luck!

[cm125]

Do not waste the money on a flight. If you can drive to a school in under a couple hours, then sure, go ahead and try and meet. Last year the only school I got into was the one that I didn't visit. (would've meant a plane ride or 11 hour drive) I had very good discussions with several professors, but the thing that counted most for me was that I had a worked as a research assistant (and got a LOR) for a professor that had just begun working with my target advisor. In the end, it was this connection that mattered.

[Katzenmusik]

Yes, you can do this.

I was accepted to one of the PhD programs on your list with a much, much more mediocre application than the one you are describing. (To be honest, my undergrad is well known and prestigious and all that jazz--but I majored in a COMPLETELY different subject and my qualifications were nowhere near as good as yours otherwise.)

If you are still worried, try throwing a few (funded) MA programs in the mix. The MA can strengthen future PhD applications.

[my future is history]

I don't think your situation is that bad. I was accepted fully funded into a top tier MA/PhD program with a horrible GPA (roughly 3.2) from a third-tier state school (Oregon State University). My LoR situation wasn't especially great either -- one of my recs was written by an adjunct professor. I think what helped a lot in my case was my writing sample, my GRE scores (740V, 760M), and language abilities (research fluency in one E. Asian language, intermediate in another).

But I would not underestimate language abilities, especially for area studies programs. My cohorts in the program all had significant language experience; the other guy who got the same fellowship had spent four years as an English teacher in E. Asia. My application also stressed language abilities, and my professors and I coordinated the LoRs with my SoP to stress language...

But anyways I don't think simply coming from a third-tier school with second-tier professors is going to sink your application, and I would throw some "reach" schools into the mix. Good luck~