my number one tip on lit apps, and what the gradcafe is REALLY good for

[ElectedSilence]

So I've been a mostly passive observer through the last half-year, and after a very methodical approach to the application process, I want to throw in my two cents about this forum. My guess is that my information-gathering during this process is on par with the best of them--I've consulted my own faculty mentors, faculty at other schools, faculty at schools I'm applying to, graduate students I know, graduate students at the schools I'm applying to, faculty in other fields, just about anybody with any relevant information. So this is my take, for those of us wrapping up applications a little bit wiser (I'd be interested in your own takes), and it's also a word of warning for applicants in future years who might stumble across an outdated thread.

Gradcafe has one very important function: it allows you to connect with other people who are going through the ridiculous rigors of applying to grad school. Its value is emotional, as it allows you to go through the rigamarole without feeling isolated. That's a very real and very estimable function. The ability to swap and read samples and statements is also great.

But what gradcafe does terribly is offer concrete, usable information about how to apply to graduate schools. What I've found on here, when it doesn't approach truism, is either sketchy or even near misinformation. This place is a waste of time for trying to improve your application. Time spent here--if for the purpose of honing statements and improving scores--is better spent elsewhere: studying, drafting, asking acquaintances to evaluate, researching. Even real, true, bona fide current grads who weigh in with their expert advice are generally to be mistrusted. They have been through this process once, and as they saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So the number one tip I have for future prospectives: come here for validation and support; do not come here to get tips on improving your application. Trust your faculty contacts above anything you read on here.

What do other people think? This is only my perspective; maybe other people have had a different experience. I enjoy this place lots, but I've read some looney stuff, and enjoy this site for the voyeurism more than its utility.

In any case - good luck all around!

[London-Tokyo]

So I've been a mostly passive observer through the last half-year, and after a very methodical approach to the application process, I want to throw in my two cents about this forum. My guess is that my information-gathering during this process is on par with the best of them--I've consulted my own faculty mentors, faculty at other schools, faculty at schools I'm applying to, graduate students I know, graduate students at the schools I'm applying to, faculty in other fields, just about anybody with any relevant information. So this is my take, for those of us wrapping up applications a little bit wiser (I'd be interested in your own takes), and it's also a word of warning for applicants in future years who might stumble across an outdated thread.

Gradcafe has one very important function: it allows you to connect with other people who are going through the ridiculous rigors of applying to grad school. Its value is emotional, as it allows you to go through the rigamarole without feeling isolated. That's a very real and very estimable function. The ability to swap and read samples and statements is also great.

But what gradcafe does terribly is offer concrete, usable information about how to apply to graduate schools. What I've found on here, when it doesn't approach truism, is either sketchy or even near misinformation. This place is a waste of time for trying to improve your application. Time spent here--if for the purpose of honing statements and improving scores--is better spent elsewhere: studying, drafting, asking acquaintances to evaluate, researching. Even real, true, bona fide current grads who weigh in with their expert advice are generally to be mistrusted. They have been through this process once, and as they saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So the number one tip I have for future prospectives: come here for validation and support; do not come here to get tips on improving your application. Trust your faculty contacts above anything you read on here.

What do other people think? This is only my perspective; maybe other people have had a different experience. I enjoy this place lots, but I've read some looney stuff, and enjoy this site for the voyeurism more than its utility.

In any case - good luck all around!

Over the short---What, week and a half that I've been active, I've noticed that I am here mainly for answers to technical issues,

minor applications questions...etc. Haven't used GradCafe for actually bettering my application, that's what my uni's writing support...etc. is for.

Here, the validation and support from fellow applicants gives prospective graduates assurance, and I think it's that assurance (as well as grad. info---)

that brings a lot of people over here instead of college confidential.

PS---Not a lit. applicant---Just feedback for gradcafe...

Edited December 24, 2010 by London-Tokyo

[anthropologygeek]

Don't forget the results page gives you guidelines in when certain departments will notify you. Every department and every discipline is different so even current advisors don't always know best for other schools. I know what got my into my masters program and multiple phd programs in my field so I try to help out where I can.

[katerific]

I think what you say definitely has some truth and applies to all applications, not just lit. I think my rec writers, advisors, and grad student friends have been the greatest resource for me throughout the major steps of the process. At the same time, TGC has been good for all my silly questions. You know, the ones that I would normally know, but because we're dealing with grad school apps, I become rather incompetent when it comes to the really minor things. It's always good to have another person or two (or ten million) give you the obvious advice.

But the whole relating with others--that's honestly what I need most and has been one of the biggest parts of applying. I don't really know anyone in my group of friends who is applying to grad school. My biggest problem throughout the whole process has been self-doubt and fear. It's been nice meeting(?) people who're going through the same feelings, but also have the same goals and ambitions and such.

[GK Chesterton]

But what gradcafe does terribly is offer concrete, usable information about how to apply to graduate schools. What I've found on here, when it doesn't approach truism, is either sketchy or even near misinformation. This place is a waste of time for trying to improve your application. Time spent here--if for the purpose of honing statements and improving scores--is better spent elsewhere: studying, drafting, asking acquaintances to evaluate, researching. Even real, true, bona fide current grads who weigh in with their expert advice are generally to be mistrusted. They have been through this process once, and as they saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So the number one tip I have for future prospectives: come here for validation and support; do not come here to get tips on improving your application. Trust your faculty contacts above anything you read on here.

Puzzling. A comment suggesting that the advice on Grad Cafe is not to be trusted because it's based on anecdotes and personal experiences, delivered in the form of advice derived from anecdotes and personal experience.

Ça se deconstruit. Thanks for the advice, though. I'll file that under "truisms I found on Grad Cafe based on anecdotes and personal experience that are not to be trusted."

Edited December 24, 2010 by GK Chesterton

[diehtc0ke]

So I've been a mostly passive observer through the last half-year, and after a very methodical approach to the application process, I want to throw in my two cents about this forum. My guess is that my information-gathering during this process is on par with the best of them--I've consulted my own faculty mentors, faculty at other schools, faculty at schools I'm applying to, graduate students I know, graduate students at the schools I'm applying to, faculty in other fields, just about anybody with any relevant information. So this is my take, for those of us wrapping up applications a little bit wiser (I'd be interested in your own takes), and it's also a word of warning for applicants in future years who might stumble across an outdated thread.

Gradcafe has one very important function: it allows you to connect with other people who are going through the ridiculous rigors of applying to grad school. Its value is emotional, as it allows you to go through the rigamarole without feeling isolated. That's a very real and very estimable function. The ability to swap and read samples and statements is also great.

But what gradcafe does terribly is offer concrete, usable information about how to apply to graduate schools. What I've found on here, when it doesn't approach truism, is either sketchy or even near misinformation. This place is a waste of time for trying to improve your application. Time spent here--if for the purpose of honing statements and improving scores--is better spent elsewhere: studying, drafting, asking acquaintances to evaluate, researching. Even real, true, bona fide current grads who weigh in with their expert advice are generally to be mistrusted. They have been through this process once, and as they saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So the number one tip I have for future prospectives: come here for validation and support; do not come here to get tips on improving your application. Trust your faculty contacts above anything you read on here.

What do other people think? This is only my perspective; maybe other people have had a different experience. I enjoy this place lots, but I've read some looney stuff, and enjoy this site for the voyeurism more than its utility.

In any case - good luck all around!

While there is some truth to what you're saying, there seems to be an underlying supposition that there is one correct way to apply to literature programs. Much of the purpose of these anecdotes, however, has been that there isn't. The one consistent piece of advice that has been given out ad nauseum is exactly the information that you're trying to relay: study, draft, ask acquaintances (and professors, I'll add) to evaluate your writing, research. This is information you can get from the people writing your letters, of course, but it's also nice to hear about this stuff from people who are either going through the process or have just gone through it. I found that my professors (especially the older ones who got their PhDs from Harvard in the 70s) were not as in touch with the ins and outs of applying or what makes a good application great. Maybe that says something about my institution, I don't know, but because of that I found thegradcafe to be a semi-useful resource in exactly the things you don't seem to trust. It's really up to readers to be able to parse out the looney stuff from the valuable stuff because it's not as if there's absolutely nothing that has been said in the past year that can help applicants improve what they're sending. With that being said, I will admit, however, that I think the threads from last December-March were often more constructive--you might want to take a look at those before coming down so harshly.

Edited December 24, 2010 by diehtc0ke

[lady_coffee]

I agree that camaraderie is the great benefit of TGC, but I wouldn't discount the value of some threads on the lit boards. I had an unsuccessful first round and found TGC soon after, and some threads -- particularly on the SOP -- have been great resources/wake up calls. While yes, any advice on these boards is anecdotal, so too is the advice we receive from our advisors, whether those people are professors, current grad students, former grad students, etc. So I think your caution -- while certainly to be taken into account here -- also must be taken into account elsewhere. Our advisors are not gods, and they are certainly not always right. Some of us went to liberal arts schools and our professors, while fantastic, have been out of the grad school admissions game for years -- and that makes a difference in the sort of advice they give, no matter where they got their PhD. I received some truly "off" advice from brilliant advisors re: the SOP, advice I discarded this round largely due to the general consensus from friends currently in/recently out of grad school and, yes, the current grad students students here on TGC.

Ultimately, we need to be critical of the advice we're being given, no matter the source. Our advisors have a leg up on TGC -- they know us, have actually read our work, etc. And yes, a lot of stuff on TGC is genuinely out of left field. But for establishing a general consensus on general aspects of the English admissions process, let's not write these boards off just yet.

But -- that's just my .02. Take with salt.

(edited for clarity)

Edited December 24, 2010 by lady_coffee

[ElectedSilence]

Don't forget the results page gives you guidelines in when certain departments will notify you. Every department and every discipline is different so even current advisors don't always know best for other schools. I know what got my into my masters program and multiple phd programs in my field so I try to help out where I can.

Great point--though my boyfriend found that function harrowing last year. The information can definitely be useful, but I suppose it depends on how you use it (and how things go). Based on my purely anecdotal evidence (hat tip to GK), this function mostly allows you to heighten your apprehension and disappointments, or bask more self-satisfiedly in your successes.

[anthropologygeek]

What I meant was to look at the history of when they notify. Like the program I'm in will notify you if your accepted by late Feb but if its a rejection they won't notify you until late April.

[Alyanumbers]

For someone like me, who's foreign and has never lived in the US, the GradCafe has been very useful in understanding how academia works, what the culture is like, what to put in my SoP, etc. It also gives me a good idea of the level of competition, and helps me better my app by comparing myself to people on here--who are generally among the top applicants, I think.

Of course it's not going to be that useful if you already have a mentor who's guiding you through the process. I don't, however, and I doubt I'm the only one.

[surprisecake]

For someone like me, who's foreign and has never lived in the US, the GradCafe has been very useful in understanding how academia works, what the culture is like, what to put in my SoP, etc. It also gives me a good idea of the level of competition, and helps me better my app by comparing myself to people on here--who are generally among the top applicants, I think.

Of course it's not going to be that useful if you already have a mentor who's guiding you through the process. I don't, however, and I doubt I'm the only one.

Seconded.

[wreckofthehope]

For someone like me, who's foreign and has never lived in the US, the GradCafe has been very useful in understanding how academia works, what the culture is like, what to put in my SoP, etc. It also gives me a good idea of the level of competition, and helps me better my app by comparing myself to people on here--who are generally among the top applicants, I think.

Of course it's not going to be that useful if you already have a mentor who's guiding you through the process. I don't, however, and I doubt I'm the only one.

Thirded.

[diehtc0ke]

So I've been a mostly passive observer through the last half-year, and after a very methodical approach to the application process, I want to throw in my two cents about this forum. My guess is that my information-gathering during this process is on par with the best of them--I've consulted my own faculty mentors, faculty at other schools, faculty at schools I'm applying to, graduate students I know, graduate students at the schools I'm applying to, faculty in other fields, just about anybody with any relevant information. So this is my take, for those of us wrapping up applications a little bit wiser (I'd be interested in your own takes), and it's also a word of warning for applicants in future years who might stumble across an outdated thread.

Gradcafe has one very important function: it allows you to connect with other people who are going through the ridiculous rigors of applying to grad school. Its value is emotional, as it allows you to go through the rigamarole without feeling isolated. That's a very real and very estimable function. The ability to swap and read samples and statements is also great.

But what gradcafe does terribly is offer concrete, usable information about how to apply to graduate schools. What I've found on here, when it doesn't approach truism, is either sketchy or even near misinformation. This place is a waste of time for trying to improve your application. Time spent here--if for the purpose of honing statements and improving scores--is better spent elsewhere: studying, drafting, asking acquaintances to evaluate, researching. Even real, true, bona fide current grads who weigh in with their expert advice are generally to be mistrusted. They have been through this process once, and as they saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

So the number one tip I have for future prospectives: come here for validation and support; do not come here to get tips on improving your application. Trust your faculty contacts above anything you read on here.

What do other people think? This is only my perspective; maybe other people have had a different experience. I enjoy this place lots, but I've read some looney stuff, and enjoy this site for the voyeurism more than its utility.

In any case - good luck all around!

Though I would have to agree with much of what you say here, I'd have to disagree that this forum is a complete lost cause if it's not espousing a truism (which applicants may not know is a truism if they're only consulting one or two professors that they know). Correct me if I'm wrong but there seems to be the underlying assumption in your post that there is only one correct way of applying and, if nothing else, the mountain of anecdotal evidence that can be found on these boards points to the fact that this isn't true. A lot of different people with very different approaches have been successful and this in itself is valuable for those who feel sort of lost as they navigate through this process. Of course there's some looney crap out of left field (this is the interwebs after all) but I'd have to agree with Alyanumbers in that this doesn't completely discredit everything that has been posted. Of course you should spend most of your time studying, drafting, asking acquaintances (and professors I'll have to add) to evaluate your writing and researching but it is not as if nuggets of good information can't be found here. It's up to readers to be able to parse out what's useful and what isn't when going through these threads and, again, there is some useful advice to be found. I'm not quite sure how the people in programs on here are different from the people in programs that you've spoken to in that the ones here give out sketchy misinformation and those you've spoken to haven't but it should be said that if you're able to figure out what is useful information and what isn't, other applicants can too.

You say you've been here for the past half year but I don't know if you have read through the threads that were active from about last December to this past March. Those I think were the most constructive and helpful.

[lifealive]

But what gradcafe does terribly is offer concrete, usable information about how to apply to graduate schools. What I've found on here, when it doesn't approach truism, is either sketchy or even near misinformation. This place is a waste of time for trying to improve your application. Time spent here--if for the purpose of honing statements and improving scores--is better spent elsewhere: studying, drafting, asking acquaintances to evaluate, researching. Even real, true, bona fide current grads who weigh in with their expert advice are generally to be mistrusted. They have been through this process once, and as they saying goes, the plural of anecdote is not data.

In one sense, you might be right. Applicants here seem to get hung up on the insignificant details of the application process: "Should I retake the GRE to bump my 690 verbal?" "Double or single space?" "Is it acceptable to go 50 words over the limit?" Etc.

And I think that much of the advice here needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. No one can read the minds of an adcom. The admissions process is arbitrary and not-at-all transparent (I have a hunch that connections and behind-the-scenes phone calls figure much more prominently in the admissions process than we might want to admit), and these forums are simply evidence of our very human impulse to understand what's beyond our control. I even think that much of the advice from current grad students is yet another attempt to impose a narrative on a process that was absolutely mystifying.

Having said that, I do think that there is useful information here. Not everybody has a wealth of information at their fingertips; not everyone can ask their professors, mentors, and other fellow applicants for help. I did not have any help at all when preparing my application. I'd been out of school for several years, and my former adviser was dead. I don't think I would have ever, ever gotten into grad school at all without some of these forums, which introduced me to a language of professionalization I was not aware existed. (I seriously didn't even know what a conference paper was.) I spent a lot of time googling other people's interests and research terms. Before I frequented these communities, I was an applicant who merely liked to read and had a vague idea of one author I wanted to focus on. After lurking and reading hundreds of posts, I was finally able to define my interests and write a statement of purpose that wasn't completely cringe-worthy.

My bottom line "truism": if you're brilliant, well-prepared, well-connected, have an in-the-loop adviser, and have university resources at your fingertips, you probably don't need TGC. But if you're missing one of these vital pieces, you'll find the information here useful. At least--more useful than anything you might channel or mysteriously divine while alone in your bedroom.

[Alyanumbers]

Having said that, I do think that there is useful information here. Not everybody has a wealth of information at their fingertips; not everyone can ask their professors, mentors, and other fellow applicants for help. I did not have any help at all when preparing my application. I'd been out of school for several years, and my former adviser was dead. I don't think I would have ever, ever gotten into grad school at all without some of these forums, which introduced me to a language of professionalization I was not aware existed. (I seriously didn't even know what a conference paper was.) I spent a lot of time googling other people's interests and research terms. Before I frequented these communities, I was an applicant who merely liked to read and had a vague idea of one author I wanted to focus on. After lurking and reading hundreds of posts, I was finally able to define my interests and write a statement of purpose that wasn't completely cringe-worthy.

Hahaha, that is me. This forum has taught me so much! I didn't know what a literature review was, or what MLA-style formatting means, and I had no idea what level of sophistication the adcomms expected for the writing sample. I discovered that the things I'm interested in have big, smart-sounding names, and I can now effectively express my interests in a concise and professional way. I know people like me who've been to the UK for their masters, and they were telling me how in their first few months, they would just listen to their classmates' conversations and take notes, because so much of it was completely new to them. This is essentially what I'm doing here.

[fj20]

". . . these forums are simply evidence of our very human impulse to understand what's beyond our control." [i don't know how to quote people on this forum, but this is from lifealive's post two posts up.]

A legitimately profound statement--doubly impressive seeing how shallow the subject matter can often seem.

Edited December 26, 2010 by fj20

[woolfie]

I somewhat agree with the original post, but I don't think it has to be so all or nothing. Maybe the OP just got nothing out of a lot of the advice because he/she did his/her research so well. But, for example, there are so many posts asking "OMG I got a 710 on the verbal, should I retake it for a 790 which is what I HAVE to get to get into school X?" And those people are always given the best advice: that mincing scores and obsessing about numbers will not make a better application. And I think that is the best advice, not just anecdotal, uncorroborated evidence of which we will never know what the right answer is. It's true. Does anyone else disagree? I don't think anyone would. I think there are some basic things that are just true such as the above example. Some people need to be told that. Yes they could get that answer from a faculty member, but we are all worried about bothering faculty with too many questions since they are writing our LoRs for us, and it's just so much easier to ask a forum than a faculty member.

As for other more esoteric questions about applications, no, we can't know their answers. People always say "take this with a grain of salt" or "I don't serve on an adcomm so I'm not sure..." and I think everyone keeps this in mind, or at least should. I never trust a post to be the end all be all of what to do about an application. I know it's an opinion. And our discussing these things is not to find out the truth, but to creatively brainstorm, to put ourselves in the place of an adcomm so that we can visualize a better application. I think it's a very functional and helpful way to get through the application process.

(clarity)

Edited December 27, 2010 by woolfie