E.C.D. Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I am ABD with an MA in poli sci and want to break into the community college world. How do I do this? I want a full time job. Can I start with adjuncting and work my way up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eigen Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Not sure if you can make it past an instructor position even at a CC with no PhD... Or are you talking about getting a position while you finish your dissertation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_hamster Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Not sure if you can make it past an instructor position even at a CC with no PhD... Or are you talking about getting a position while you finish your dissertation? Depends on the community college. I took classes at the one here where I live way back when and there were high school teachers teaching some of the classes. I doubt they had PhDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeLight Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 i wouldn't be so sure. i had high school teachers with PhDs. some had even published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_hamster Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I had high school teachers with PhDs too, but not too many. I also had teachers that didn't even have a teaching degree, they got what they call a teaching certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eigen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Depends on the community college. I took classes at the one here where I live way back when and there were high school teachers teaching some of the classes. I doubt they had PhDs. I'm sure they were teaching classes without a PhD... But I doubt they had full professor positions- or even assistant/associate. They were probably instructor level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_hamster Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Okay, I looked up the community college's website. They have some job listings, this is for an instructor position. So yes, Eigen, this is probably what they were. MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: 1. Bachelor’s degree in xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or closely related field. 2. Two (2) years of recent verifiable work experience in xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. 3. Excellent oral and written communication skills. Edited February 8, 2011 by robot_hamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eigen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Okay, I looked up the community college's website. They have some job listings. Again, is that for a professor position or an instructor position? I know plenty of people with lower degrees that teach, but they won't have a professorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_hamster Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I went back and edited when I saw that you posted the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eigen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Hehe, crossing in the aether. Although, it's important to remember that even an instructor position can get tenure track- just a different aim overall. Edited February 8, 2011 by Eigen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot_hamster Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Another thought. Even if it is just an instructor position, it is still probably good experience if you're looking to be a professor later on down the line. Something to fill the void between the masters and the PhD if you're looking to take some time off from school. Edited February 8, 2011 by robot_hamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eigen Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Have to be careful taking a break ABD, though- some school guidelines won't let you come back where you left off, and in fact might make you predominately start over depending on the length of the break. If you really just want to teach, a MA might be a good option- you'd have to ask more specifically Poly Sci profs, but I had a young instructor in chemistry that had his MS, and really enjoyed his job. He was a great teacher, and he didn't really want to do research, he wanted to teach. The pay was lower than a professor position, but it was sufficient for him and his family. Instead of publishing in "research" journals, he now works to publishing in the Journal of Chemical Education. I know other fields can be more competitive on the teaching front, though- especially humanities/social sciences, mostly due to the lack of industry positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.D. Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Thanks everyone. I know for a fact you can get a "full time" position w/o a PhD - I personally know someone. Although I'm sure it's MUCH easier and you get paid MUCH more if you have the doctorate.... I know I want to teach. The PhD would only be to beef up a resume and get a shot at a better/higher paying CC job......especially as these jobs get more competitive. I just don't know if it's worth the misery of doing the diss - at this point I don't even like politics or political science anymore, the people in the field, or the solitude. I'd much rather be out teaching and interacting with people. I am also an urban guy and can't stand living in a small college town...so there's that too. I may make less money in the long run, but I'll be much happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonacademic Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 For some CC jobs, all one needs is an AA (a BA will not cut it) (I assume this holds true for trade positions exclusively, rather than more traditional academic fields), but for Poli Sci positions, I assume an MA or higher is desired. Depending on where you are, CC jobs are almost as competitive as 4 year college positions, hence the need for a higher degree. Undoubtedly, you can get a job. However, most likely you'll be trapped in adjunct hell, and you need a PhD to escape that, in this day and age. I live in a very rural, undesirable area, and know that this is a requirement for full time faculty even here. As an adjunct, you could easily make less than $10,000 a year, even teaching 3 courses per semester. That's not something I would happily jump in to. Keep in mind that the ratio of adjuncts to full timers is even worse than 4 year colleges - a small handful of full timers for a veritable army of adjuncts schlepping between campuses is not unusual. It may be difficult to get a position at a CC off the bat if you don't have experience at one and/or come from a very elite background, simply because CCs are so different than other colleges and worry (rightly) that those with champion pedigrees might jump ship for greener pastures (how's that for mixed metaphors?!). I'd recommend looking at the Chronicle of Higher Education for further advice from professors - both the Chronicle itself and the fora (especially the job seekers and the non-tenure track, to get a sense of what you might get into). As someone who has adjunct experience at a CC, I'd recommend each resource, though of course take all information with a grain of salt. Depending on where you are ABD, you might want to suck it up and get it over with. Not an easy thing to do, I concede, but I don't think that leaving at this point with hopes of landing a CC job will end up being a happy resolution. Eigen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtncffts Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Thanks everyone. I know for a fact you can get a "full time" position w/o a PhD - I personally know someone. Although I'm sure it's MUCH easier and you get paid MUCH more if you have the doctorate.... I know I want to teach. The PhD would only be to beef up a resume and get a shot at a better/higher paying CC job......especially as these jobs get more competitive. I just don't know if it's worth the misery of doing the diss - at this point I don't even like politics or political science anymore, the people in the field, or the solitude. I'd much rather be out teaching and interacting with people. I am also an urban guy and can't stand living in a small college town...so there's that too. I may make less money in the long run, but I'll be much happier. I can certainly understand someone preferring to teach rather than research, but I have to say: if you "don't even like politics or political science anymore", why would you want to teach it? Your unenthusiasm for the subject won't put you in very good stead. Now, maybe this is just a result of your current situation, and you feel your passion for poli sci will be regained with time and distance. I don't know. anonacademic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.D. Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 "As an adjunct, you could easily make less than $10,000 a year, even teaching 3 courses per semester." Are you fucking serious? What's the fucking point of doing that? How the hell would you make ends meet? This is bullshit. I can't believe I diluted myself into thinking that this was a good idea. Fuck my life. Getting a PhD in this field was a TERRIBLE idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.D. Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 "if you "don't even like politics or political science anymore" I like teaching it a lot...I'm still passionate about that aspect of it. I just could care less about the boring minutia of it - I really think it's silly to spend years on a research project that no one will care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.D. Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 HOW DO I GET OUT OF THIS MESS? HOW DO YOU START FROM SCRATCH? nhyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonacademic Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 CCs house some of the most underprivileged individuals in our society, single parents who are trying to take a better step towards their futures, kids who couldn't hack it in high school but are slowly realizing the importance of higher education, elderly, minority populations...the list goes on and on. It's really too bad that everyone with a Ph.D. sh*ts on the idea of teaching at CC as some kind of academic purgatory or hell. These people need help. I do want to clarify - although I do not think I suggested otherwise - my post in light of this observation. I do terribly enjoy teaching at CCs for precisely this initial reason. It's incredibly rewarding work. I teach a lot of remedial courses, so I certainly have first-hand experience here. The only reason why it might become purgatory is if you're an adjunct - and I would extend that to liberal arts colleges and research universities as well. There simply isn't an escape. Maybe this isn't the case elsewhere, but it certainly is in my area, even with a plethora of local colleges (CCs, "tech institutes," state colleges, branch campuses, etc.). The ticket out (or the ticket to get in the line to get out) is to have your PhD, pure and simple. OP, keep in mind something else I said: this is a rural, undesirable area, and we have low cost of living. Most adjuncts teach at two colleges, and probably average $20,000/year. It's not easy, to be sure, but it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.D. Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 How long do you think you have to adjunct for before someone will take you full time? Could you just string together some shit jobs (adjunct, retail, etc.) until a full time teaching job opens up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonacademic Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 How long do you think you have to adjunct for before someone will take you full time? Could you just string together some shit jobs (adjunct, retail, etc.) until a full time teaching job opens up? It's hard to say. The best thing would be to be proactive. It's unusual that departments hire internally (that is the word on the street, anyway) - I suppose the theory runs something like, "Why pay for the milk when we can have the cow for free?" CC jobs are focused around students and teaching; they don't care so much about research. Hopefully you have a solid teaching portfolio. Again, I'd recommend going to the Chronicle of Higher Education. There are many posts there that will help you chart your next move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFaustus666 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 I do want to clarify - although I do not think I suggested otherwise - my post in light of this observation. I do terribly enjoy teaching at CCs for precisely this initial reason. It's incredibly rewarding work. I teach a lot of remedial courses, so I certainly have first-hand experience here. The only reason why it might become purgatory is if you're an adjunct - and I would extend that to liberal arts colleges and research universities as well. There simply isn't an escape. Maybe this isn't the case elsewhere, but it certainly is in my area, even with a plethora of local colleges (CCs, "tech institutes," state colleges, branch campuses, etc.). The ticket out (or the ticket to get in the line to get out) is to have your PhD, pure and simple. OP, keep in mind something else I said: this is a rural, undesirable area, and we have low cost of living. Most adjuncts teach at two colleges, and probably average $20,000/year. It's not easy, to be sure, but it can be done. Also remember that there are plenty of free-lance opportunities around by which you can supplement your income until (if you choose to do so) you have the coveted piled-higher-and-deeper in your hand: private tutoring, private consulting, etc., etc. My fathter did all of those things, but most of all he taught, and loved teaching, as an instructor in a community college, even though he was a high school dropout, and (later) a college dropout. (He started his own consultancy, became friends with the local political hierarchy, etc., to pull the strings needed to obtain an instructor position without even a high school diploma.) It can be done. It's not easy, but it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.D. Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 "The ticket out (or the ticket to get in the line to get out) is to have your PhD, pure and simple." UGH. I know I'll never finish. And I know I'll never live in another shitty rural dump. Guess it's a 9-5 for me then.....good luck everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeLight Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 How long do you think you have to adjunct for before someone will take you full time? Could you just string together some shit jobs (adjunct, retail, etc.) until a full time teaching job opens up? that's the thing. without the PhD, probably no school will take you as a full time instructor. especially in poli sci. there are too many PhD holders for too few jobs, so any full time gig with bennies is going to go to someone with a PhD. just quit, dude. it's not the end of the world. you've got the MA so you could probably get into public policy, and that actually pays well. anonacademic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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