Deciding between top programs

[ECpoli]

I'm thrilled to be in at HYP but now really have no idea how to pick.

Anybody else in at these schools have an insight on the criteria you're using to decide / thoughts on the various programs / introductions?

[balderdash]

I'm thrilled to be in at HYP but now really have no idea how to pick.

Anybody else in at these schools have an insight on the criteria you're using to decide / thoughts on the various programs / introductions?

Congratulations, and I mean it sincerely. I think you should choose based on a few factors, really: quality of advisors, placement record, and funding stand out for the most important. But since you're choosing at HYP, it's not going to vary that much among them (I would imagine). Thus your decision will have to be based on "softer" factors.

For me, it would really come down to the city, the campus, the cost of living, and where you want to be geographically. As far as I'm concerned, Harvard wins because Cambridge is gorgeous and Boston is a college town. Both Stanford and Princeton are also in beautiful locations, but in smaller satellites outside their respective "cities" (SF and NYC), whereas Harvard is central and right on the red line.

But I do have to say this: I have a massive interest in you declining your P offer, so if nothing else, do a guy a favor.

Edited February 25, 2011 by balderdash

[Zahar Berkut]

How would your potential advisors compare across the three schools? And if you're a regionalist (in your comparative interests), do any of the schools have larger research institutes around your area of interest? Also consider quality of life, though I'm not sure how you'll get hard data on that.

[CAS166]

Haha really... I got into both Harvard and Yale and sent writing samples. I figured thats why I got in but who knows. weird...

Just do a stand alone MA. Thats what I did and it got me into HYP today

Harvard, Yale, Princeton all within 45 minutes. no idea where to go!

I promise its true. Found out a few hours ago... posting here wasn't the first thing I did after finding out!

Harvard is unofficial and then I got the yale and princeton emails minutes apart (maybe less than a minute)

My advice is stop showing off and just pick one reasonably. What could be the worst for god's sake? Harvard? Yale? Or Princeton? No offense, but I think what you do is just annoying.

[ECpoli]

My advice is stop showing off and just pick one reasonably. What could be the worst for god's sake? Harvard? Yale? Or Princeton? No offense, but I think what you do is just annoying.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask other people deciding between the same programs for their impressions. Its a pretty consequential decision and I don't think anything I've said is rude or offensive so please mind your own business. I wasn't aware that people are only allowed to bemoan rejections.

[wannabee]

I guess what I would say is this. Deciding between "top programs" really isn't any different than deciding between any two (or more) progams that are roughly regarded as being at the same ranking level. This is true if the two programs are considered to be "top ten", in the twenty to thirty range, or any other range you can name. Basically, the whole issue of "rank" is removed from the equation and you are left to weigh other factors: fit in terms of program requirements and research specialists, accessibility of advisors, any physical resouces available in your particular specialty, past job placement records, and, to some degree, questions of desirability of location and the full social implications of that.

I am not in your boat. I am still waiting on a number of applications. I am extremely grateful to have two great acceptance, but they are "further apart" on the ranking scale. Rank definitely has to count for something. Still, I believe that either offer could get me professionally to where I want to be. What has impressed me about my situation at one school is how accessible and welcoming the faculty have been. In my own case, I won't be able to make the campus recruit weekend but one professor is making arrangements to meet with me abroad in the midst of a very busy schedule on a short trip.

Of couse, we've all heard "horror stories" about faculty who welcome you before acceptance and then do a disappearing act, but I am getting genuine good vibes from a number of professors at this school. That does make a difference to me and this will be a major factor in my own decision.

So generally I'd say, use your common sense and don't get too hung up on a program's prestige. It's nice to have the "luxury" of selecting from highly ranked schools, since you are fairly certain that the programs can get you to your professional goals. However, all faculty (and grad students)are human beings, and you can't live on "prestige" alone. When schools are similarly ranked, you've got to figure out whether you are going to be comfortable enough to stick out the bad times and finish in a reasonable number of years. Good luck on your decision.

P.S. Plane got delayed by hours yesterday so I had to be rescheduled for today to make my connections in Europe. Still trying to get back to my current program!

Edited February 25, 2011 by wannabee

[Purled]

My advice is stop showing off and just pick one reasonably. What could be the worst for god's sake? Harvard? Yale? Or Princeton? No offense, but I think what you do is just annoying.

Personally, I didn't apply to HYP(e) because I'm really not interested in the directions the departments and professors take in my subfield. I applied to schools where it seemed the right type of inquiry is occurring, and the right academics work (right for me, of course). Maybe, again, it's a subfield thing? I have no idea the degree to which "fit" is important for those in quant-heavy concentrations.

It strikes me as a bit sad when one applies to the biggest names in order to apply to the biggest names - which is not to say that that's the case here, but it did strike me as a bit of rattling of golden chains.

[oasis]

One would hope that the first thing you learn at the top programs is humility and tact.

[wtncffts]

I can't say that I don't share some of that envy of the OP, but I also don't think anything he's said has been boastful or immodest. To the OP, though, are you already excluding Stanford and Columbia? Why so?

[ECpoli]

I can't say that I don't share some of that envy of the OP, but I also don't think anything he's said has been boastful or immodest. To the OP, though, are you already excluding Stanford and Columbia? Why so?

Great programs but they don't cohere with my interests very well. I'm somewhat surprised I was admitted to those two schools because really I can't think of more than one or two professors who would have advocated for me. Stanford fits with my interests somewhat better than Columbia but I'm pretty sure I don't want to live in California.

[tarrou]

We've got an e-mail chain going of folks choosing between Harvard/Stanford -- PM me if you want in.

[ECpoli]

Thanks but right now I think its really a question of P vs Y vs H. 99% sure I'm not going to pick Stanford.

[ECpoli]

Do people attend ASWs at schools they are pretty sure they won't attend?

[Gradhorn]

I am deciding between two programs now and one key factor is how well I mesh with faculty of interest. I am wrapping up my visit to School A that was lower on my list, but my #1 professor of interest really went out of his way to spend time with me and we hit it off quite well. That is something that counts for a lot - I am going to be working with this person for 4 years and he will be an important advocate for me when the time comes for placement. I was leaning strongly towards School B, but after this week I have changed my mind.

[tarrou]

Thanks but right now I think its really a question of P vs Y vs H. 99% sure I'm not going to pick Stanford.

Interesting. I'm just curious - why? You said in a previous post you don't like California?

[Maphobe]

Do people attend ASWs at schools they are pretty sure they won't attend?

The advice that I've gotten is: sometimes yes, sometimes no.

If it's a good program, there are faculty you would want to meet, and it's not really difficult for either you or the school to arrange transportation - I would say it's worth checking out, since you might find you "click" well with the department.

[ECpoli]

Interesting. I'm just curious - why? You said in a previous post you don't like California?

Well for one I was shocked to be admitted because while there are a few faculty members who work in areas tangentially related to my interests nobody really is a good fit as an advisor (at least compared to HYP). re:California, I'm a native northeasterner and all my family and friends live here so I'd really prefer to stay in the region.

[TieWebb]

Ha! Maybe you should defer, really think it over.

My advice is stop showing off and just pick one reasonably. What could be the worst for god's sake? Harvard? Yale? Or Princeton? No offense, but I think what you do is just annoying.

[veracious_star]

My advice is stop showing off and just pick one reasonably. What could be the worst for god's sake? Harvard? Yale? Or Princeton? No offense, but I think what you do is just annoying.

You are definitely bragging a bit, but you have every right to brag-- it is an amazing accomplishment! Congratulations!!! However keep in mind that the decision process at these institutions is not perfect (it's a game of incomplete info), so it does not necessarily mean that you are the best at political science, just the best at SIGNALLING that you have the potential to be good at political science. (These institutions get in wrong all the time--Harvard has a 50% retention rate--said Harvard prof). I definitely did not get into as good of schools as you (Granted I did not apply to most of the schools you did--only Harvard), but the beauty of the academy is that at it's essense it's about creativity and ideas and anyone with the proper training can compete. I think you have thrown the gauntlet down and I hope you are in my area...formal modelling in IR/Comparative because I look forward to competing with you !!!!!

[history?]

I guess I would offer advice if the question made sense on a fundamental level. Namely, how is it even possible that one could know how to play the game well enough to get those kinds and combinations of offers and yet not understand how to go about choosing between them? As for those who chastised you for bragging, I think they were misguided: is it really bragging to flaunt that kind of basic inability to make a decision? I call troll.

[Charlie2010]

I can't see this as bragging, because what glory is there in bragging to a message board? But the key point is that the decision is exactly the same as choosing between any set of similarly-ranked schools, in general. And the specifics depend on your focus and fit with the schools that admitted you.

[hupr]

I think that this thread goes to show that at a certain level, "fit" doesn't really count for anything. After all, if the same person with the same research agenda is getting accepted to wildly different top programs (say, Stanford and Yale), then fit isn't really playing that large of a part in his/her application.

[wtncffts]

I think that this thread goes to show that at a certain level, "fit" doesn't really count for anything. After all, if the same person with the same research agenda is getting accepted to wildly different top programs (say, Stanford and Yale), then fit isn't really playing that large of a part in his/her application.

Well, unless the OP tailored his stated research agenda specifically for each program. I don't think that's farfetched, if possibly disingenuous and somewhat cynical. Or else, his application was otherwise just so outstanding it trumped the concerns with 'fit'. I mean, if he's being sincere and he was accepted to every single program he applied to (I'm assuming this), this would seem to be necessarily the case.

[ECpoli]

Well, unless the OP tailored his stated research agenda specifically for each program. I don't think that's farfetched, if possibly disingenuous and somewhat cynical. Or else, his application was otherwise just so outstanding it trumped the concerns with 'fit'. I mean, if he's being sincere and he was accepted to every single program he applied to (I'm assuming this), this would seem to be necessarily the case.

identical apps for every school

what i'm looking for here is not general advice about how to choose a program but specific opinions abour h,y, and p from other people choosing between these programs. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was bragging. As said above there isn't really a point in bragging anonymously to people i dont know. Though, to be fair, I probably was bragging a little. Anyways, I really don't see why this particular thread is offensive to anyone. What is wrong with asking other people choosing between the same programs for their thoughts. I'm not say "HYP OMG how do I choose!" I'm saying "if anybody else is giving careful thought to these programs what are some positives and negatives you've noted?" Seems pretty reasonable. Then again, people obviously like to be obnoxious and bitter on message boards.

[Penelope Higgins]

This is a pretty good rundown. I would add that like Yale Princeton, in CP and IR, is also a seriously divided place along methodological lines. Harvard is diverse but not divided - more of a big tent place where students can find a home regardless of their interests. Don't go to Stanford to do CP unless you want to do formal and/or quant work.

These are VERY different places if you are a theorist. Since you have not mentioned your subfield it is hard to provide any more information.

Here's the rundown among HYPS:

Harvard: big, disorganized department with faculty all over the place in their little centers and programs. Amazing resources but can be hard to get noticed. Their best grad students are among the best in the discipline. The middle- or low-level ones disappear. If you are going to be a superstar this is the best bet. Cambridge is by far the coolest place among the four.

Yale: smaller, much more organized. Currently experiencing something of a battle between people who believe that the most important thing is to be absolutely sure that your statistical estimates are correct and people who believe that the most important thing is to be interesting, original, and theoretically sophisticated, regardless of how you study what you study. Placement has been a problem in the past decade, at least relative to expectations and history. New Haven is obviously worse than Cambridge.

Princeton: larger than Yale if I am not mistaken. Some great students and the formal-quantitative pipeline has now been activated (check out this year's placement record). Many of the most arrogant professors in the discipline are here. Princeton is much, much less cool than either Cambridge or New Haven.

Stanford: smallest, most focused, arguably the best training. Placement is amazing, especially in comparative/IR. Palo Alto is sunny and warm when the East Coast is freezing and cloudy, but you will be a graduate student in a social science, so you are not the top of the social food chain. Nice place to live, but not cool like Cambridge.