POI Red Flags?

[mandarin.orange]

Had an admit to my top school...the department sounds great; they are very active in exactly the research I want to do, with loads of opportunities for me to beef up on skills and courses I think would be useful for the later job market.

When I initially emailed the POI, he responded enthusiastically, and at great length, in less than an hour! Subsequent emails (about 3 more throughout the whole application/admission process) were equally enthusiastic, complimenting my great record. I am waiting to hear on funding and we mentioned a visit to the campus, and perhaps speaking on the phone in the meantime. I mentioned I could free up some time during weeknights next week, and I received a curt reply that he was pressed for time Mon-Tues, traveling again Wed, and could we speak over the weekend? I responded that Sunday would be fine; just tell me a ballpark time so I could be at home. No reply.

And, not a word today. I've gone about my life, errands, exercise, prep for school tomorrow as usual, but always aware of the phone in the background and wondering a little..."hey, WTF?"

Is this a sign of things to come? It has me questioning if I should agree to work under this person. I've seen plenty of friends experience bad advisor-advisee situations during my masters, so I've gone into the application process a bit guarded and on the lookout for signs that an advisor would be difficult/aloof/absent/crazy.

How can you tell someone won't be a great advisor? Who has seen telling "red flags" in the past, and at what stage - i.e. during the initial correspondence, or visit, or discussing with current students?

[eklavya]

I responded that Sunday would be fine; just tell me a ballpark time so I could be at home. No reply.

And, not a word today. I've gone about my life, errands, exercise, prep for school tomorrow as usual, but always aware of the phone in the background and wondering a little..."hey, WTF?"

Is this a sign of things to come? It has me questioning if I should agree to work under this person. I've seen plenty of friends experience bad advisor-advisee situations during my masters, so I've gone into the application process a bit guarded and on the lookout for signs that an advisor would be difficult/aloof/absent/crazy.

How can you tell someone won't be a great advisor? Who has seen telling "red flags" in the past, and at what stage - i.e. during the initial correspondence, or visit, or discussing with current students?

few guesses here: may be he is really busy. trust me, some people are with what they do. it has nothing to do with their personality type. and if i am getting this right, you said sunday would work for you but he didn't respond? that means he probably is busy today as well - work, family, other things. or maybe he is the type who observes the sabbath? if he responded to you enthusiastically before, i am sure his enthusiasm hasn't drooped now. give him some time. i know you are in the waiting phase, and perhaps going crazy. but a slight delay in communication shouldn't really be used as the golden ruler to abruptly measure someone's personality.

[newms]

I agree with bhikhaari. The delay may just be that the PoI is busy. I think a good way to get a feel for how a PoI would be as an advisor is to talk with their students. See if their students are happy with the program and just talk with them about the program and how the lab/group operates. You might also want to know how much access the students have to the PoI - does he meet regularly with them? My PoIs at schools I've been admitted to offered to put me in contact with their students, so perhaps you could ask the PoI. You could also look at placements for their former students - do they get jobs at good schools or good companies after graduating? Of course, the best way to know how well you'd work with the PoI is to meet or talk with them - if it gets close to Sunday and no reply from him, I think it's perfectly ok for you to send a polite reminder email. Good luck.

[Strangefox]

I agree with Newms and Bhikhaari.

Professors are extremely busy. If he responded enthusiastically - it's a great sign. Now talk to his students and find out what kind of person he really is. Don't judge him just by the fact that he has not answered your last letter yet.

[psycholinguist]

Agree with everyone else. Not only are professors really busy (sometimes ludicrously so), but they get an absolute ton of email. I'd say it's nothing to worry about at all. Wait a few more days, and if there's no reply, yeah, send a little reminder-note. Odds are he clicked on your email, read it, prepared to reply, either got interrupted or overwhelmed with urgent things, and then didn't have the email marked as unread anymore.

[awvish]

Another question in the same vein--one place to which I've been accepted is a fairly prestigious school in my field and has a pretty good (although not the most stellar) financial package. The POI though, I know to have had a falling out with a former student (who is an acquaintance of mine), which negatively impacted the acquaintance's career. Having gotten all the information I can out of the acquaintance (who is a reticent person and not close to me), I still don't have a lot of information. I've contacted current students, none of whom seem to have a problem with the POI (although would they put it in writing? For the sake of someone they don't even know?)...

The program also states that switching POIs is not a big deal, and so I'm hoping that this provides enough of a way out for me to not have major worries about accepting.

Should I be more careful/worried about this?

[newms]

Another question in the same vein--one place to which I've been accepted is a fairly prestigious school in my field and has a pretty good (although not the most stellar) financial package. The POI though, I know to have had a falling out with a former student (who is an acquaintance of mine), which negatively impacted the acquaintance's career. Having gotten all the information I can out of the acquaintance (who is a reticent person and not close to me), I still don't have a lot of information. I've contacted current students, none of whom seem to have a problem with the POI (although would they put it in writing? For the sake of someone they don't even know?)...

The program also states that switching POIs is not a big deal, and so I'm hoping that this provides enough of a way out for me to not have major worries about accepting.

Should I be more careful/worried about this?

It takes two to tango -is it possible that the falling out was more the fault of your acquaintance than the PoI? Also, it's always possible that people can have falling outs without either party really being at fault, since certain personality types do not work well together - but the question is, was the falling out handled professionally? Did the PoI intentionally cause your acquaintance's career to be negatively affected by the falling out? Or was it a by product? If it were the former, that would be a big red flag to me, but if it were the latter then it may have been inadvertent.

Another thing to consider when you look at how easy it is to change PoIs, is how many PoIs are there at the school that you could work with? It is very helpful if it is easy to change PoIs, but you have to have someone you could change to.

Is it possible for you to visit and talk with current students in person? If not, then maybe you could talk with them via IM or on the phone, since those are less formal means of communication, they may be more willing to volunteer information. Good luck!

[LouWho]

Your POI flat out told you they were pressed for time on Monday and Tuesday. I'm assuming the time frame you're talking about is this week. In which case, I wouldn't expect an answer until Wednesday.

[mandarin.orange]

Your POI flat out told you they were pressed for time on Monday and Tuesday. I'm assuming the time frame you're talking about is this week. In which case, I wouldn't expect an answer until Wednesday.

Just to clarify, he mentioned being super-busy Mon and Tues, and traveling on Wed...which is why he asked to speak over the weekend - meaning this weekend past, and that was when I didn't hear anything.

[newms]

Just to clarify, he mentioned being super-busy Mon and Tues, and traveling on Wed...which is why he asked to speak over the weekend - meaning this weekend past, and that was when I didn't hear anything.

So he never followed up and set an appointment for the phone call? It seems he forgot about it. It's not a good sign that he did that, but remember that profs are busy and he enthusiastically responded to you before. It's entirely possible that he simply forgot. I would email him again, just following up from where the thread left off the last time, restating how much you would like to talk with him and asking when would be a good time to talk. Good luck!

[mandarin.orange]

POI did end up calling Monday and apologized for dropping the ball over the weekend, and we had a good chat.

Thanks for the reminders to be patient. I have to remember that similar happened with now-boyfriend and when I met my current roommate as well - in the beginning stages, I had to initiate contact at a time when I thought I'd left the ball in their court. Both situations have worked out fantastic!

Sometimes I wonder if reading that (in)famous book "He's Just Not That Into You" has done more harm in my life than good.

[mandarin.orange]

Another question in the same vein--one place to which I've been accepted is a fairly prestigious school in my field and has a pretty good (although not the most stellar) financial package. The POI though, I know to have had a falling out with a former student (who is an acquaintance of mine), which negatively impacted the acquaintance's career. Having gotten all the information I can out of the acquaintance (who is a reticent person and not close to me), I still don't have a lot of information. I've contacted current students, none of whom seem to have a problem with the POI (although would they put it in writing? For the sake of someone they don't even know?)...

The program also states that switching POIs is not a big deal, and so I'm hoping that this provides enough of a way out for me to not have major worries about accepting.

Should I be more careful/worried about this?

Have you met the POI yet? Do you know first-hand whether this would be a personality mesh or not?

I had a fantastic MS advisor, with whom I still correspond and collaborate with to this day (7 years since earning my degree). Plenty others have successfully completed their degrees under him. I was there at a time when, coincidently, many of my labmates (all PhDs-to-be) really, really struggled with him, and to this day will say they made the wrong choice in advisor.

Many of my college friends went onto grad school in varying fields. I remember many complaining about their advisors, and more often than not, it was just a symptom of a deeper problem: they set themselves up to have one option only for a grad program, or academia was really not for them.

I think you should form your own opinion, particularly if you can track the path his current/past students and see if there is a successful record of completion and moving on to good jobs.