Applying for Fall 2012 Admission. Blah.

[_wanderlust]

I've wanted to get a PhD in history ever since I was 12. This may be a sign that I am not sane. (Then again, after lurking on here for quite a while, that would put a whole slew of us in the same category.)

I'm graduating in May 2011 with a BA in history from a top 30 public university. I'm really confident about my personal recommendations and my writing sample. The statement of purpose doesn't scare me. I can make it compelling. I've wanted this for a long time. Seriously, though, I'm really worried that my GPA and my academic history will close a few doors in my face.

Academic history: Did one year of a program at a well-ranked school in the United Kingdom. I got pretty good grades; this was the first year of an honors history program. For financial reasons, I transferred to a public university in my state after one year. I also took three classes at a community college to save money and fulfill three gen-ed requirements. I haven't taken the GREs yet but I'm basically devoting the entire month of May to this endeavor. Gotta kick some math ass, y'know?

GPA: cGPA upon graduation is going to be a 3.769. My GPA within my history major is going to be 3.933.

Interests: The history of ideas/intellectual history. The Progressive Era in the United States. The place of the US within the world -- how American history fits into the big picture when considering the world and other important ideas (I love mixing it up and finding US influence in other countries and vice versa). Also totally random: resistance to fascist and totalitarian movements.

Goal: PhD in US history. Considering an MA enroute to the PhD if I can't get into a desirable PhD program. The MA would hopefully be a one year MA. I'm toying with the idea of going in the UK for the MA program.

Potential list of schools (for Fall 2012 admission):

- University of Wisconsin-Madison (A girl can dream.)

- Brandeis

- Columbia

- Northwestern (Probably my top choice. Love the program; love the professors; 2 of my 3 main referees have Northwestern PhDs and are quite adamant about me applying)

- CUNY Graduate Center

- UC-Irvine

- NYU

Masters:

- Oxford

- St. Andrews

- Warwick

- Durham

- Cambridge

Now, I'm not sure if you guys can relate -- but when I took a long hard look at that 3.769 and then looked at the transfers on my academic record, I just felt like a bunch of doors were potentially slammed in my face. I don't know if that's stupid or unreasonable, but maybe you guys have felt that before. I also get anxiety when I look at more than two schools per day. That also probably sounds really weird. I want this so bad, but the whole process of researching schools and applying is seriously giving me anxiety and upsetting me.

During my year off, I'm hoping to further clean up my senior paper and get it published. I'm also hoping to get some more experience within history -- not sure how that is going to happen, but I'm asking around about some internships and the like.

If anybody has any opinions, I would greatly appreciate them (honesty is awesome.) Are there programs that I should scratch off my potential list? Are there programs that you think I should definitely consider? My list is not at all comprehensive, as it's quite late and I'm currently procrastinating (avoiding my physics homework... yay for gen-eds...).

(After reading through this post I'm pretty sure that what I just threw out there is 1/3 stream of consciousness, 1/3 mumbo jumbo, and 1/3 everything else.)

[sankd]

I don't really think you have any glaring worries, but remember this can be a bit of a crapshoot. Don't be anxious! Good luck.

[modern]

Your GPA is outstanding, just forget about that. You can get anywhere with that in principle. If you get a good GRE you can forget about the scores crap.

You can turn the transfers stuff into something very positive in your statement.

The defining part is proving that you can write history and research history. The referees are extremely important for that, but so is the CV and even the statement. You got to show from the start that you have a clue of what is a feasible project within an interesting approach for a PhD, and it has to be coherent with your previous training (what you can do). The writing sample has to be publishable stuff or almost so, and it will obviously help a lot if it fits the professor/departments interests, at least in a broad way.

[cyborges]

I've wanted to get a PhD in history ever since I was 12. This may be a sign that I am not sane. (Then again, after lurking on here for quite a while, that would put a whole slew of us in the same category.)

I'm graduating in May 2011 with a BA in history from a top 30 public university. I'm really confident about my personal recommendations and my writing sample. The statement of purpose doesn't scare me. I can make it compelling. I've wanted this for a long time. Seriously, though, I'm really worried that my GPA and my academic history will close a few doors in my face.

Academic history: Did one year of a program at a well-ranked school in the United Kingdom. I got pretty good grades; this was the first year of an honors history program. For financial reasons, I transferred to a public university in my state after one year. I also took three classes at a community college to save money and fulfill three gen-ed requirements. I haven't taken the GREs yet but I'm basically devoting the entire month of May to this endeavor. Gotta kick some math ass, y'know?

GPA: cGPA upon graduation is going to be a 3.769. My GPA within my history major is going to be 3.933.

Interests: The history of ideas/intellectual history. The Progressive Era in the United States. The place of the US within the world -- how American history fits into the big picture when considering the world and other important ideas (I love mixing it up and finding US influence in other countries and vice versa). Also totally random: resistance to fascist and totalitarian movements.

Goal: PhD in US history. Considering an MA enroute to the PhD if I can't get into a desirable PhD program. The MA would hopefully be a one year MA. I'm toying with the idea of going in the UK for the MA program.

Potential list of schools (for Fall 2012 admission):

- University of Wisconsin-Madison (A girl can dream.)

- Brandeis

- Columbia

- Northwestern (Probably my top choice. Love the program; love the professors; 2 of my 3 main referees have Northwestern PhDs and are quite adamant about me applying)

- CUNY Graduate Center

- UC-Irvine

- NYU

Masters:

- Oxford

- St. Andrews

- Warwick

- Durham

- Cambridge

Now, I'm not sure if you guys can relate -- but when I took a long hard look at that 3.769 and then looked at the transfers on my academic record, I just felt like a bunch of doors were potentially slammed in my face. I don't know if that's stupid or unreasonable, but maybe you guys have felt that before. I also get anxiety when I look at more than two schools per day. That also probably sounds really weird. I want this so bad, but the whole process of researching schools and applying is seriously giving me anxiety and upsetting me.

During my year off, I'm hoping to further clean up my senior paper and get it published. I'm also hoping to get some more experience within history -- not sure how that is going to happen, but I'm asking around about some internships and the like.

If anybody has any opinions, I would greatly appreciate them (honesty is awesome.) Are there programs that I should scratch off my potential list? Are there programs that you think I should definitely consider? My list is not at all comprehensive, as it's quite late and I'm currently procrastinating (avoiding my physics homework... yay for gen-eds...).

(After reading through this post I'm pretty sure that what I just threw out there is 1/3 stream of consciousness, 1/3 mumbo jumbo, and 1/3 everything else.)

It's pretty ridiculous to think your GPA would hold you back if your writing sample and SOP are spot on. I would actually encourage NOT over-explaining your academic history beyond mere rudimentary, professional ways (2 sentences or so). They want to know why you left, but overdoing the story can make a red flag where there isn't one.

If you're interested in 20th century american intellectual history, you should add Harvard, University of Michigan, Stanford, and Berkeley. IMHO, you have too many state schools on the list that might get crap funding when they do admit you, but I'm not claiming to be an expert. I have no idea about going to the UK to do a master's, but since you mentioned finances before it seems prohibitively expensive unless they give you funding. Do they, typically? If not, it DOES make sense to study US history in the US in a master's program that might give you a tuition waver to boot---just saying. Anyway, good luck. And WANT it, but don't want it too bad. Apply far and wide, forget about your GPA worries (which are so off-base it's incredible), and don't bomb the GRE.

[StrangeLight]

your GPA is fine. having a few community college credits, especially if they're only for gen-ed requirements, is fine. this will hold you back at exactly zero programs, so don't worry about it.

some insight on how the admissions committee works in my program:

the adcom reads your SOP first. the adcom puts your application in a file, with a front page that lists your GPA, GRE scores, TOEFL scores. no one pays any attention to these at this point in the process. you could have a 2.0 GPA and they'd still at least read your SOP. some people forget to send transcripts and they'll still evaluate the application and put it in the "admit" file pending the transcripts actually arrive.

the adcom then gives your application to faculty members that you may be working with (regional or thematic "fits"). those faculty members read the SOP, the writing sample, and the LORs, and rank the candidate on a scale of 1 to 5. each file is evaluated by 5 professors OUTSIDE OF the adcom this way. there was at least one instance where a student's TOEFL score was too low to be admitted, and the faculty member asked, "what should i do with this? the score's too low." the response was, "read it and rank it and just ignore the scores. if you want the student, then we'll ask them for another english language test before they arrive in the fall."

then the adcom gets the files back and goes through the top-ranked students in detail. keep in mind that these rankings occur based only on the SOP, LORs, and writing sample. they know the GPA, GRE, TOEFL, but they're told not to factor that into their decision. language proficiency matters to the degree that you remember to mention your language proficiency in your SOP (which you should always do, including for grant applications). so the adcom evaluates the top-ranked candidates with a fine-tooth comb and fill in the available spaces based largely on departmental politics. so and so wants to beef up his advisees and get a new cohort. this big subfield is pretty content with their current crop so they're going to be incredibly picky with any new students. that subfield hasn't had a student in years, so they want to fill out their cohort. this guy's retiring, that lady's on sabbatical, this prof is already on 9 or 10 dissertation committees, etc.

GRE scores will never discount your application (at least in my program). if they're shitty, that's a knock against you, but that alone will never keep you out of the program. if you're an international student, they literally throw your GRE scores away. american students have been taking standardized tests since kindergarten. not the case for almost everywhere else in the world, so US students already have an unfair advantage. then the fact that so much of the GRE is culture-specific.... they just toss the scores. i'd be surprised if most programs don't do this for international students, actually.

so... study for the GRE, try hard, and then don't sweat the score. your GPA is fine as is. no one will care that you did a few credits at a community college. put ALL of your energy into your SOP and writing sample. prepare your LOR writers with materials so they can write a detailed, specific letter about your ability as a researcher. not that you're a good person, not that you're a good student, not that you wrote a great term paper. you want someone to say "this person has worked in archives before, created a strong research paper, assisted me in my own research." let your LOR writers know about your language proficiency so they can include it in your letter. if you really want to go overboard, ask them if they think it would be good idea to share their letters with each other, so they can each highlight different aspects of your abilities and cover all the bases. that's going above and beyond, but i'd say that's a better use of your time than prepping GRE math or worrying about community college credits. good luck!

[StrangeLight]

It's pretty ridiculous to think your GPA would hold you back if your writing sample and SOP are spot on. I would actually encourage NOT over-explaining your academic history beyond mere rudimentary, professional ways (2 sentences or so). They want to know why you left, but overdoing the story can make a red flag where there isn't one.

If you're interested in 20th century american intellectual history, you should add Harvard, University of Michigan, Stanford, and Berkeley. IMHO, you have too many state schools on the list that might get crap funding when they do admit you, but I'm not claiming to be an expert. I have no idea about going to the UK to do a master's, but since you mentioned finances before it seems prohibitively expensive unless they give you funding. Do they, typically? If not, it DOES make sense to study US history in the US in a master's program that might give you a tuition waver to boot---just saying. Anyway, good luck. And WANT it, but don't want it too bad. Apply far and wide, forget about your GPA worries (which are so off-base it's incredible), and don't bomb the GRE.

i'd second most of this. your GPA is absolutely fine. do not explain any of it, really. focus your SOP on what you want to study, concretely. you can always change your mind, but your SOP should convince the adcom that you can conceptualize an executable research project. so talk about american intellectual history, but propose a concrete topic. maybe even two, if they're interrelated. talk about how you would answer your research question and how your interests line up with profs in the department, the school's area studies centers (if applicable), the school's library collection (if applicable). they really like it when you say some of your sources are in their library.

UK masters are not funded. sometimes a school will have a fellowship or two to offer, but most people go in unfunded. also, UK programs tend to unfund or underfund PhD students as well (at least in comparison to US programs that *should* fully fund all PhD students). for one thing, you'd be far away from the experts in your field. for another, you'd be far away from your sources. and for another, you'd be paying out of pocket. look into american-based FUNDED masters programs. these exist and are much better stepping stones into top PhD programs. not that the UK programs you listed are bad at all, but they come with real financial costs that may not be worth the name attached. also, 1 year masters programs are not always seen as sufficient or equivalent to an american masters program, which is 2 years. so you may have to do the masters AGAIN at a US program, even with a UK masters. this will vary by field.

[TMP]

You're kidding about your GPA, right?

If you're going to care about the difference between a 3.7 and a 3.9, then I wonder how long it will be before you start driving yourself nuts in a program. Nobody expects perfectionism, but everyone is a perfectionist. You just need to learn to manage that and right now you can be saying that there is no real difference between a 3.7 and a 3.9, but it is a big difference between a 2.7 and a 3.7, right?

If you're very serious about American history, don't do the UK. Do the UK, if only you're planning to include some British into your work. Otherwise, you'll be stranded when all of your sources are 6,000 miles away. Although doing a one-year MA in the UK is okay because you're getting it in less time than doing a US one. However, you most likely won't even be ready to apply for the PhD when you start that program because you don't have much to show. So if you're looking to do one-year MA program in the UK, plan on waiting another year to apply (and figure out something to do in the meantime!)

Try to get a mix of public and private schools for the PhD. Many, many programs are having problems with finances and the public ones are most vulnerable because anything can happen with the states' budgets.

Anyway, I second StrangeLight's thoughts. Just adding my own here.

[RPits]

i'm going to jump aboard here and say to take your focus off of that not-so-horrible GPA. as a fellow 2012 hopeful, i have similar worries. but, i've also sought the advice of my current adviser and other profs i've stayed in contact with, so, here's some other food for thought about what you may be able to do to serve as resume boosters post undergrad (current candidates please correct anything you think is wrong so i can stop wasting my time :

-seek out internships, research assistantships (sometimes they can be arranged at local archives, or in university libraries who have received historical papers, etc.), or other historical projects which don't necessarily need to revolve around research. for instance, i'm working on an oral history project right now. no research; just getting some experience.

i also agree with strangelight regarding the loi and articulating your historical interests. life is rough for twentieth century americanists these days. while i've heard from many that you don't have to be overtly specific, perhaps doing some more research over the course of this next year (as an extension of your undergrad thesis?) might steer you into some interesting arenas. then, you'll also be able to reach out to some schools who you think might appreciate your interests and the fact that you've done a lot of exploring post graduation.

good luck! judging by what i've read as of late, we'll all need it

[_wanderlust]

Thanks everybody. It means a lot that you took time to respond and deal with my post.

I'm really not sure if anybody else can relate to this, but I just feel absolutely drained after going through all of the information for one school. I keep a folder for every school that I'm semi-interested in on my computer. I have a word document where I list financial aid information, application information, etc., and then I keep another word document with a list of the faculty I'm interested in, recent PhD publications from the department, etc. I'm try and download a few of the supplementary or recommendation forms so I can have everything I need in one place. I'll do this one school at a time.

Seriously, though, if I try and do more than one school over two or three days, I get depressed. I get bogged down by information. I'm not sure if I'm the only one that finds this whole process really draining, but one thing I've definitely learned is that this is a process. It can't all be done at once, and this is something that I basically just realized this past week.

[vtstevie]

I'm the exact opposite - I go over department web pages practically for fun, I find it's the perfect compliment to, say, sports (and with baseball right around the corner, I should be looking at a LOT of schools). I just jot down the names of people I'd like to work with, whether they guarantee funding and if they have a foreign language requirement at this early juncture - once I have a list of about 15-20 I'll start narrowing it down and looking into the harder info.

It's still early, don't stress too much yet. For now, just look at your favorite books on your shelf, check out where the author teaches and make note of it. If you're going crazy looking at too much info as of now, simply tone down the amount you're taking in at once - that's what I'm doing anyway.

[cyborges]

Thanks everybody. It means a lot that you took time to respond and deal with my post.

I'm really not sure if anybody else can relate to this, but I just feel absolutely drained after going through all of the information for one school. I keep a folder for every school that I'm semi-interested in on my computer. I have a word document where I list financial aid information, application information, etc., and then I keep another word document with a list of the faculty I'm interested in, recent PhD publications from the department, etc. I'm try and download a few of the supplementary or recommendation forms so I can have everything I need in one place. I'll do this one school at a time.

Seriously, though, if I try and do more than one school over two or three days, I get depressed. I get bogged down by information. I'm not sure if I'm the only one that finds this whole process really draining, but one thing I've definitely learned is that this is a process. It can't all be done at once, and this is something that I basically just realized this past week.

not to be a downer, but this is also the life of an academic to some extent -- research grants and/or institutions, figuring out what needs to go into a particular fellowship application, emailing your support network and coordinating them to speak on your behalf, and THEN writing the actual grant proposal or fellowship application. add in waiting to hear from those institutions and being rejected more often then not. in short, you have to have a thick skin. consider this a dry run and get used to it!

[natsteel]

I've wanted to get a PhD in history ever since I was 12.

Also, not to be a downer, but, whatever you do, don't open your SOP with a line like this. It's okay to be anxious or overwhelmed even this early in the process... You have a couple of months which can be spent looking into programs so if you can only do 1 per day, that's fine (as long as you don't procrastinate). Like vtstevie, I'd look over various departments' pages for fun, sometimes for hours.

[_wanderlust]

Also, not to be a downer, but, whatever you do, don't open your SOP with a line like this. It's okay to be anxious or overwhelmed even this early in the process... You have a couple of months which can be spent looking into programs so if you can only do 1 per day, that's fine (as long as you don't procrastinate). Like vtstevie, I'd look over various departments' pages for fun, sometimes for hours.

Wasn't planning on it.

[vtstevie]

Also, not to be a downer, but, whatever you do, don't open your SOP with a line like this. It's okay to be anxious or overwhelmed even this early in the process... You have a couple of months which can be spent looking into programs so if you can only do 1 per day, that's fine (as long as you don't procrastinate). Like vtstevie, I'd look over various departments' pages for fun, sometimes for hours.

good to know we cool dudes not alone

[ReallyNiceGuy]

Though I have not been admitted anywhere and I too am applying for fall 2012 I do have something to add regarding GPA and community college credits:

I took classes at a community college for 2yrs right out of high school. I was an 18yr old kid who literally didn't care about college. I finished an AA with a glorious 2.4 gpa (LOL) and ran around the world for about 5yrs. When I came back, I went back to a University and the last 2+yrs have been 4.0. When I contacted 3 of the top 5 schools on my list a grand total of 0 of them told me they would even care about my early yrs.

I realize our positions are different, but 3 different people at the 3 different schools (all top 20) said they would not concern themselves with CC work because "it's not history courses" and "if you show marked improvement, it tells us you are serious now, perhaps you weren't then?"

Best of luck to you.

[natsteel]

I've wanted to get a PhD in history ever since I was 12.

Just don't start off your SOP with this...

Edited June 12, 2011 by natsteel

[Safferz]

Just don't start off your SOP with this...

Scroll up, you warned wanderlust already... back in March!

[ZeeMore21]

Sorry wanderlust, but do you really need encouragement with the information you provided? I know everyone wants to feel valued but sometimes I question people who seem to be worried but then puts down that kind of academic record.

And I agree, wouldn't put down that "I've been wanting to do X since I was a child." I know professors who have told me that they just sit down and laugh when they read something like that."

Edited June 13, 2011 by ZeeMore21

[oseirus]

I wish I could see what you wrote on your SOP now

[oseirus]

I like coming back to read these threads ... how full of hope we were