2009 Application: Religion-Theology-Philosophy of Religion

[demondeac]

The reality at Emory in recent years was that most applicants wanted to work under Wendy Farley or Mark Jordan (the two most senior faculty members in theology). Ian McFarland is sympathetic to more confessional positions (as are some faculty members in Bible and History), but he just doesnt have the clout. As a result, the applicants who get the most support are the ones whose interests most align with Farley and Jordan, not necessarily McFarland or McDougall.

I'm not so sure this is the case; with my interest in continental philosophy and theology (right along with Wendy Farley) I couldn't even garner an interview. I talked with a good friend of mine who is a candler student and he was certain I wasn't orthodox enough for the program! If there is an implicit bias against evangelicals, then it cuts equally towards us heretically heterodox folks as well. The so-called "southern bias" has to be additionally tempered by the fact that southern programs are additionally held to the standard of "practical theology" by their major donors (who likely have evangelical backgrounds). Likewise both Vandy and Emory have a strong "practical" component that may work in the favor of evangelically minded folks (as long as their projects aren't inconceivably strange like the guy last year trying to derive a biblical theology using the principles of analytic philosophy!). If you want to study some facet of Barth or another evangelical theologian at either Vandy or Emory, there are plenty of welcoming folks who would be more than happy to direct a dissertation on that particular topic.

[rollofthedice]

demondeac said:

I'm not so sure this is the case; with my interest in continental philosophy and theology (right along with Wendy Farley) I couldn't even garner an interview. I talked with a good friend of mine who is a candler student and he was certain I wasn't orthodox enough for the program! If there is an implicit bias against evangelicals, then it cuts equally towards us heretically heterodox folks as well...If you want to study some facet of Barth or another evangelical theologian at either Vandy or Emory, there are plenty of welcoming folks who would be more than happy to direct a dissertation on that particular topic.

I completely understand your frustration. The process does play out differently for each applicant.

However, I can tell you that the majority of students who were admitted at Emory in recent years were admitted to work under Jordan and Farley and concentrated in issues of deconstruction, gender studies, and pretty much anything that falls outside the realm of "traditional systematic categories." If you proposed a course of study on Barth at Emory, Ian McFarland and Joy McDougall would pretty much be it...and to be honest, McFarland is far stronger in that suit. You would not garner enough support from other faculty to warrant an admission. Even if you had some practical element, this would not be enough to put you over the top.

Also, the practices program does not get you admitted. You have to be accepted to the area of concentration first, and then the committee on practices reviews your application at the end. Therefore, the majority of Practices students at Emory are doing ethnographic studies in Religion, and not necessarily "practical theology." (Note also that the practices funding comes from Lilly, the Religion program funding does not.)

With all due respect, demondeac, I highly doubt that your lack of theological orthodoxy had much to do with it. I know of only one current theology PhD student who could be considered theologically orthodox. Only one. The phrase "not orthodox enough for emory" is somewhat of a contradiction in terms! I dont know if it was a bias against your outlook as much as the sheer competition for limited spaces at that point. Also, last year theology took two of its own students from Candler (which is unheard of at Emory! they pretty much shun all Candler students as a general rule.). That pretty much wiped out their selections for the year. I think only one other person from the outside got in. That means you were competing for one spot rather than 3-4. I think this had more to do with what went on in your case than anything else. Last year's situation at Emory probably had very little to do with you at all. I dont know if that is a good thing or a bad thing ?

Like I said in the previous post, with Jordan leaving it may start to balance out a little more, but that will take time. And, at some point when the economy gets better, they will have to replace Jordan. Whoever they pick at that point will be a strong indication of where the department is headed.

Either way, having gone through the app process at Emory on the ground, I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. I know most of the profs from first hand experience. To be completely honest, I tried last year to get into the Historical Studies program to work under Lewis Ayres (my masters adviser). My interests in historical theology also had a practical element so i applied to practices. I got burned pretty bad in the process (turned down for interview weekend but wait listed til April when they finally told me No). With Ayres gone, I was a little fed up with the program. So I didnt apply to it this year. But I did apply to Emory's Institute of Liberal Arts (along with about 12 other programs!). And now the waiting game.

Best of luck in your other options.

[demondeac]

Thanks rollofthedice,

You definitely have more firsthand knowledge of the program, and I appreciate the help. I think I was guilty of conflation with the two very different "practical" programs at Vandy and Emory, as these things don't generalize well at all. I think Vandy has already interviewed its Practical Theology folks, while we Un-Practical theologians (by implication!?) wait impatiently in the wings for any word at all. So in their case I think it can help your admissions, but not at Emory from your description.

I guess with the Emory de facto rejection coming so early in the process, with lots of downtime until our next word from programs has forced me to try and come to terms with how anyone wouldn't love to have me as their phd student . So being evangelical may have been a strike against some folks, but I guess my point was even if you are doing continental philosophy, deconstruction, etc. and wrote your SoP in your direction (as did I) it won't of necessity even get you close to an interview let alone an offer. So for future generations of PhD seekers trying to glean anything they can from these forums remember this: Beware! :twisted: Sorry, that was a little dramatic.

[academiccricket]

I was rejected from a Ph.D. at UW Madison in Hebrew & Semitic Studies today...which stung a bit because it was one I considered a "safety." This is going to be a long February / March.

[r&sstudent]

Hello, all . I am issuing a correction to an earlier post. While it is certainly the case that master's-level students at UChicago are the cash-cows of the Div School, such is not the case at Boston College. I was accepted by BC last year, and I am quite happy here! The master's programs are run by a different school within BC - The School of Theology & Ministry, which is brand new. Weston Jesuit School of Theology and the Institute for Religious Education and Pastoral Ministry (which was a BC entity), as well as the Century 21 Online program, merged to form the STM this past fall. The Theology Department, which pertains to the School of Arts and Sciences, is a separate entity. So, BC's theology faculty doubled in one year, and the funding is separate. BC offers attractive, merit-based funding for grad students. If the app is still open, I suggest that you consider Boston College. To be frank, I hate Boston as a city, but I am very pleased with the quality of BC's faculty (I'm doing moral theology), and also with the ability to take courses at all of the other theology schools (including Harvard and BU) for free.

If you have questions, let me know...and good luck to everyone! By the way, I'm hoping to apply to Ph.D. programs next year in sexual ethics/Catholicism, and I'm wondering if there are programs I have not looked at that you would suggest. At present, I am considering BC, Harvard, Loyola Chicago, Northwestern, and GTU.

Take care

[demondeac]

While it is certainly the case that master's-level students at UChicago are the cash-cows of the Div School, such is not the case at Boston College.

I apologize since I was the one who made this sweeping generalization; my experience was with the philosophy department at BC. They don't fund their masters students, and this presumably pays for their PhDs in the same fashion as some theological programs. I did like the coziness of the theology and philosophy departments at BC; they said it wouldn't work at most places, but it works quite well at BC. How can you hate Boston? What a cool city.

In a side note, I can now quit dwelling on my de-facto Emory rejection with an acceptance to GTU. I at the very least will not go 0 for 12!

[r&sstudent]

I find that some of the people here are tough to be around. While there are many cultural opportunities and excellent schools, as well as convenient public transportation, I find that the locals can be rather abrupt and harsh. I realize that this is a generalization, and I have certainly met some pleasant people outside of my school (which has plenty of amicable folks), it's not exactly a place that one might call warm.

Congrats on GTU, deamondeac! That's exciting . Did you get some funding? I heard that it can be tough to secure there, as they may not have as big a budget (I could be wrong, but that is what I have heard). Any insight into my Ph.D. question?

[demondeac]

Bostonians are a rare group! I visited a week ago and honest to God there was a big, italian guy talking at about 140 decibels on his cell phone and he said the very words "you go tell Vinny and dose clowns....." The lack of hospitality up north was almost universal in my experience checking out both Chicago and Boston. My wife and I (both Georgians) played a game called "freak out the northerners" where we would address perfect strangers on the street with eye contact and a simple "hi" or "how are you doing" as we walked past. It was a blast, and good practice for impending application rejection!

Funding at GTU is always a question mark, as with most grad-only programs (like Claremont, to which I am also applying). We'll have to see how it shapes up, but the most one could hope for might be full-tuition and maybe some work study. I certainly would not mind living in Berkeley (it's so crunchy), and only an hour from Napa.

[r&sstudent]

What do you mean by crunchy? Haha. I'm sad that you had an inhospitable reception in Chicago. I love that city (I went to a school in Chicago for undergrad), and I could have gone to UChicago for my master's. I'm so grateful that I turned them down. I won't live here in Boston unless I am in school here, so if I do not get into BC or Harvard for a Ph.D., I'll be leaving at the end of my master's program . Best of luck with the rest of your apps! To your knowledge, does BC require and interview? I can't remember your area...are you in phil of religion?

[studyordie]

Congrats on GTU deamondeac, I went to undegrad in LA and the only redeeming thing I can say about California is that the people from the northern part of the state that I got to know were interesting, down to earth people. If you end up out there my only advice is to stay north of Santa Barbara.

[demondeac]

What do you mean by crunchy?

Crunchy like granola, i.e. very health-conscious and holistic, slang for folks who wear hemp and presumably munch granola...

To your knowledge, does BC require and interview? I can't remember your area...are you in phil of religion?

They don't interview, but I took a campus visit to the philosophy department two weekends ago. They were just starting to look at apps that day (good timing, maybe?). My interests at BC would definitely be in philosophy of religion, though most of my apps were in theology proper.

Thanks sbyoda02 and studyordie for the well-wishing; it's a hard road ahead so I appreciate the support!

[theostudent]

For those of you who are familiar with the program--what is the general tenor of BC's theology program--MTS in particular? I realize I'm inviting generalities, which is unfair, particularly for a relatively large school like Boston. So far, I haven't paid BC too much attention for two reasons:

1) My interests tend toward RO and post-liberalism, and I come from a more confessional background; BC seems to be more Jesuit than other RC schools (e.g. even Jesuit Marquette, which has some fresh faces on the faculty).

2) While my application is decent for an MTS (1480 GRE, one peer-reviewed article forthcoming, a few good references), I come from a small, practically unknown (Protestant) liberal arts college; I'm not sure if BC would pay my app much attention.

If anyone has any advice along these lines, that'd be great.

[achowa00]

All this hating on the Boston crowd hurts a bit...although I am from the south and living in the northeast and finding myself acting more like a New Englander every day. Eye contact? No thanks.

Demondeac, congrats on the acceptance! Very exciting! Berkeley would be a fantastic ($$) place to live and study.

[studyordie]

danielm43- My friend who studied under an Iliff grad who told him not to go to Iliff said the guy's main complaint was that the profs were distant and not around to help out Ph.D. students that much, his specialty is NT. He has a good job but it probably has as much to do with his denominational affiliation as with anything else on his resume, of course that's only one grad.

Theostudent- Your interests seem very similar to my own, when its Ph.D. time I would encourage you look at UVa. Milbank has of course been gone for a bit but I'm reading Charles Mathewes right now and if you like the conversations postmodern Augustinians get into he is as good as anybody I have read plus he actually makes sense within an American context (something I don't always get from RO and am actually coming to appreciate since I'll probably be here for the rest of my life). The postliberal approach is also well represented there with Ochs on board...

[theostudent]

studyordie -- UVA is definitely in my top 3 for PhDs. Just gotta get through two years of a significantly less-funded masters program first.

[studyordie]

Which 2 round out your top 3? Are you considering crossing the pond?

[theostudent]

Marquette and Duke would round it out. If funding were more accessible across the big pond, I'd have Edinburgh up at the top. O'Donovan is retiring in a few years, and it'd be great to study under him while I still could.

[r&sstudent]

theostudent,

BC is definitely a Jesuit school. I have found it a very nice fit for me, and I encourage you to apply. There are some Protestants in the various programs, and they seem to feel included. As far as what you want to study in particular, I don't know that you would find that here. We don't shy away from postmodernism and what have you, but I haven't heard the term "post-liberal" used in any context. You are more than qualified, if your application were merely based on your GRE scores, your publication, and a fair world. No matter what happens, I wish you the best! If you are interested, here is the link to the School of Theology and Ministry website: www.bc.edu/stm .

Don't forget, by the way, that as a student at a school in Boston, you would have access to the other eight theological schools, among them BC, BU, Harvard, Andover Newton Theological Seminary, Episcopal Divinity School, Hebrew College, and more. I'm taking a class at Harvard right now - there is no additional charge, and BC has some nice merit-based financial aid packages (not for housing, but full-tuition scholarships are available).

[Genghis]

Hi guys,

I got a call from UVa that I got accepted to their MA/PhD program! (history of religions- buddhism)

I originally applied for masters degree, but they offered me that if I switch to MA/PhD they'll fund me.

Has anyone else heard back from UVa?

Wow, man. That stings. That really stings. I just got rejected from UVA for history of religions in Buddhism! Can I ask what kind of Buddhism you study?

[demondeac]

Wow, man. That stings. That really stings. I just got rejected from UVA for history of religions in Buddhism! Can I ask what kind of Buddhism you study?

Sorry to hear that Genghis. That's a bold move to just ask your advisor one way or the other! I chickened-out at Emory and emailed the graduate secretary to see if there was any kind of waitlist, since I wasn't invited to the "cool kids" weekend 8) . No response, as expected, but it brings up a really valid question. What is the big deal with all the secrecy and wielding of information power. Let me climb up on my soapbox...

So why is it that programs routinely incorporate deception into the whole process? It seems quite normal that large groups of folks have been de facto rejected, but the program doesn't send them official notice on the off chance (probably like .5%) that the few waitlisted folks also decline offers. Why don't they disclose when they're going to be deciding, and when official offers had been made? Do they really think that absence makes our hearts grow fonder, rather than just rationalize away about how we didn't like the program anyway (even if they do admit us)? It seems like we're all adults here, and the only thing that makes us less-than-adultlike is the ridiculous information power these programs are hoarding while we try to figure out the next step of our lives. In your case Genghis, they had already made a decision, but apparently weren't going to let you know until the "official" letters are sent out in April 2027. That's ridiculous and unfair to you. It's like middle school all over again...

So Christian Bale-esque rant aside... is UVA's history of religions just really quick at processing apps compared to the other areas at UVA? I would hope an earlier deadline (Jan 3) would translate into earlier decisions, but apparently not...

[rollofthedice]

is UVA's history of religions just really quick at processing apps compared to the other areas at UVA? I would hope an earlier deadline (Jan 3) would translate into earlier decisions, but apparently not...

You mean Dec 3, right? Ridiculously early.

Theology, Ethics, and Culture must be on a different timeline than History of Religions...unless things have drastically changed since last year (which I doubt). My understanding is that UVA's theology program is the earliest deadline and the last to lat you know. Last year I had been rejected at 5 schools accepted at one UK (Durham) without funding, and it all came down to UVA. After waiting through mid-March I finally emailed the graduate admissions secretary and she gave me my status over email. that was on March 20. I dont even know when the official letter came.

I can tell you this much: This year, I got an urgent email from Kevin Hart on Jan 22 informing me that they were missing 2 of my 3 reference letters (which turned out to be a mistake) and that they were going to begin deliberation in the morning. This means that they sat on our applications from Dec 3 to Jan 23. WTF?

I wonder if their decision making process is structured differently than other schools...say, private ones, like Emory, Duke or Vandy that seem to get on the ball much quicker with a later deadline. I cant understand a delay of that much time.

I agree with your rant though. Why the hell does it take 3.5 months to hear one peep out of these people? Shouldnt they be hammering out a short list and a sufficient wait-list in a manner of weeks, not months?!? We are at a disadvantage from the get-go...except, of course, the fact that we have this little forum.

[Genghis]

Sorry to hear that Genghis. That's a bold move to just ask your advisor one way or the other! I chickened-out at Emory and emailed the graduate secretary to see if there was any kind of waitlist, since I wasn't invited to the "cool kids" weekend 8) . No response, as expected, but it brings up a really valid question. What is the big deal with all the secrecy and wielding of information power. Let me climb up on my soapbox...

So why is it that programs routinely incorporate deception into the whole process? It seems quite normal that large groups of folks have been de facto rejected, but the program doesn't send them official notice on the off chance (probably like .5%) that the few waitlisted folks also decline offers. Why don't they disclose when they're going to be deciding, and when official offers had been made? Do they really think that absence makes our hearts grow fonder, rather than just rationalize away about how we didn't like the program anyway (even if they do admit us)? It seems like we're all adults here, and the only thing that makes us less-than-adultlike is the ridiculous information power these programs are hoarding while we try to figure out the next step of our lives. In your case Genghis, they had already made a decision, but apparently weren't going to let you know until the "official" letters are sent out in April 2027. That's ridiculous and unfair to you. It's like middle school all over again...

So Christian Bale-esque rant aside... is UVA's history of religions just really quick at processing apps compared to the other areas at UVA? I would hope an earlier deadline (Jan 3) would translate into earlier decisions, but apparently not...

I don't think UVA is quick at processing the apps-- I remember last year people talking about how they took exceedingly long. Actually the only reason my adviser knew about me is because I am an auto-reject-- she told me she's retiring and not taking any more PhD students. And she's the ONLY person I could study with there, the only person in my tiny subfield with a very unique language set.

I didn't actually ask her about my decision, I e-mailed her about an article she had written. She just told me out of the kindness of her heart-- probably didn't want me dragging out hopes until March.

[Genghis]

I can tell you this much: This year, I got an urgent email from Kevin Hart on Jan 22 informing me that they were missing 2 of my 3 reference letters (which turned out to be a mistake) and that they were going to begin deliberation in the morning. This means that they sat on our applications from Dec 3 to Jan 23. WTF?

Wow, RIGHT after I read this I checked my e-mail and got something from another program. The secretary told me, and I quote, "The committee will meet in early March to review all applicants and send decisions out within the first week." The applications were due December 15th. Amazing. Not only because they sat on them for so long but because this reveals just how little time it takes them to make the decisions! If they had started on December 16th, I could have had my decision before Christmas!

Mind you this is a VERY small (non-Religion) department, and they have fewer applicants, but still...

[cavedan]

Just to throw some more results on the heap (I also posted these on the results page):

On 2/2 I got an email invite to Notre Dame's interview weekend (2/26-28) for the Christianity & Judaism in Antiquity Ph.D.

Also on 2/2 I got an email from Duke (New Testament Ph.D.) with a link to the Status website, which said I am not being offered admission but had "qualified for the alternates list" (=it doesn't look good)

On 2/3 I got an email from a potential advisor at Yale's Ancient Christianity Ph.D. program to set up a phone interview (very nervous about this one)

[academiccricket]

Don't forget, by the way, that as a student at a school in Boston, you would have access to the other eight theological schools, among them BC, BU, Harvard, Andover Newton Theological Seminary, Episcopal Divinity School, Hebrew College, and more. I'm taking a class at Harvard right now - there is no additional charge, and BC has some nice merit-based financial aid packages (not for housing, but full-tuition scholarships are available).

Last time I checked (last year), Hebrew College wasn't officially part of the BTI. Although they work with ANTS and students between both colleges can cross-register, I don't think BTI students can take courses at HC. I studied at HC and wasn't allowed to take courses through the other colleges in the BTI.