advisor leaving univ, forcing me to tag along

[vammov]

Hello everyone,

I have a peculiar problem. I started the Phd program immediately after my bachelors with the hope that I will be able to finish up the phd early and get to work in a research lab. During the admissions I actually contacted one senior faculty , and since he was not recruiting anyone that year, he forwarded me to a new tenure-track faculty in the same field. I was interviewed and taken in by that new faculty.

When I joined, I heard strange stories about this new prof, that he was arrogant and forced students to work hard. But, I seriously felt that was more of a personal issue with the previous students and carried along. I had worked with him for two years and published few papers and finished up the phd course requirements and was about to start the thesis topic. The work I did during these 2 years, did not give me much satisfication and I was seriously considering changing the area of work. My advisor even sent me abroad to present my papers at conferences. During the 4th semester, I had been getting hints from other sources that his tenure-track was going to end and he might leave the university. I tried to contact my advisor and ask him if everything was going fine and if he would be leaving the univ - since I need to make sure of my future and apply to other universities and have my options open. My advisor just said, he had another year to stay and I was relieved. After a month after I contacted him regarding his tenure, the advisor indicated he was leaving the university and he wanted me to move with him to the new university. His new university was very low ranked, and I do not want to spoil my career by making that decision. Since I already passed the qualifying exam, I was planning to stick to the old university and find a new advisor and start the thesis topic. During this 2 year span , I had interacted with the senior faculty, with whom I actually intended to work and developed a comfortable rapport. I am sure that senior faculty would accept me into his research group.

When I stated my intentions to stay back and continue with another advisor in the old university, my current advisor started asking me for reasons why I dont want to make a move. I told him clearly that i do not wish to move to lower ranked university and that I also have some family issues to move to a far away place. But he just keeps trying to convince me to go along with him. I dont know how to make things clear to him. I had been reiterating my opinion and he doesn't seem to care. After a long discussion for a day, I told him I wont be coming along, he started proposing other solutions like getting co-advised by him and another faculty in the current university, or coming with him as a visiting student.

I am looking at this opportunity to explore the working area of the senior faculty, since I am more interested in his work than in my current area of research. But my current advisor doesn't seem to understand it, and due to his personal ego problems with the senior faculty he is forcing me not to go and work with him. I am seriously confused. How should I go about convincing him and staying back in the old university, what other options do I have?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

[LJK]

Have you talked to the 'senior faculty' member that you think would be willing to advise you? You seem to be assuming that a rapport will easily translate into being advised by him which may be true but may not be if there are funding issues or something of that sort. I'm not saying you are wrong, but you should confirm that your assumption is correct before going any further. After confirming that staying and being in the group you want to be in is a viable option, talk to the graduate program director. Make sure everything is good with you making the switch and staying from the department's point of view. As long as you have your new advisor lined up and your department supporting your move, it doesn't really matter what your current advisor wants.

It sounds to me like you are useful to the advisor in some way - either you are very good in the lab or a good writer or are far enough along that you will actually graduate and count on his tenure review or something else entirely. If what it is you do for him is very helpful to him/his career, its not very surprising that he would want you to move with him or want you to continue to be advised by him in some capacity.

So line your ducks up with your current department and other than being a pain about anything currently in progress, your leaving advisor can't wield all that much power over you - particularly there is no way he can be 'forcing [you] to tag along' or 'forcing [you] not to go and work with [senior faculty member].' This guy can't force you to do anything as long as you line up your preferred option.

[husky]

I agree with LJK. Line up your options at your current university. If the current advisor is leaving, he can't force you to go with him. He also can't force you to not be advised by the senior advisor. I can understand you wanting to be kind and turn the current adviser down gently, but at the end of the day you have to do what's best for you. He is supposed to understand that.

[Katzenmusik]

I agree with the above comments. You chose this university, along with its location and prestige. You can't be expected to uproot your whole life just because your adviser is moving, especially considering you're interested in working with the other faculty. It sounds like you're a good student, and he wants to keep you around because you help him and/or because your success reflects well on him. But at the end of the day, you have to do what's best for you... not what's best for your adviser.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Katzenmusik

[Eigen]

If you're in the sciences (which I gather you are), moving with your advisor is the usual course- it's quite rare for someone to switch to another lab in order to stay.

That said, if you passed Quals, you should receive your PhD from your current institution even if you move with your advisor- something to keep in mind. We have a group that moved from a top-ranked program to ours about two years ago, and all the students that came with the PI who had passed quals would be receiving their degrees from said top-ranked program, even though they were finishing the work here.

I'd reiterate the above advice about making sure you have things lined up at your current institution... Especially making sure that you won't lose time in swapping groups. In my field, the swapping of groups could set you back 1-2 years in your degree, depending on how far apart the research was.

[vammov]

Thanks for the advice.

When I had discussions with him, my current advisor keeps saying I have spent two years of time, effort and money on you and he gives me a sense of guilt. I am not comfortable with that.

The reason, I am not wishing to move with him is that my interests changed a little during the course of 2 years and when I took some new courses. Currently I am planning to set up a co-advisor kind of situation with another advisor in the current university and stay back, and continue working with current advisor and change the line of work to reflect my new interests. If that does not work out, I dont have any intention of moving out as the new university does not give hope of good personal life.

I am fine with extending my phd for 1 year, if I get to work on my current area of interest and get to associate with the senior faculty. But I was requested not to approach any professor until talks with the current advisor are finalized. Is that a good thing to keep waiting when things are going haywire?

[Eigen]

When I had discussions with him, my current advisor keeps saying I have spent two years of time, effort and money on you and he gives me a sense of guilt. I am not comfortable with that.

You may not be comfortable with it, but is still true- he has spent a lot of time and money on you, and you're thinking about swapping to another group.

You still haven't mentioned what discipline you're in, but you mentioned lab work... I know in chemistry (or related subjects) it can be quite difficult to change advisors part way through a program- especially past the first year. And you usually need your previous advisors blessing.

[vammov]

You may not be comfortable with it, but is still true- he has spent a lot of time and money on you, and you're thinking about swapping to another group.

You still haven't mentioned what discipline you're in, but you mentioned lab work... I know in chemistry (or related subjects) it can be quite difficult to change advisors part way through a program- especially past the first year. And you usually need your previous advisors blessing.

I am in Computer Science. I agree that he has spent a lot of his resources, but after looking at the university profile that he is going to - i feel it would be detrimental for my career if I go along with him. The comp science dept in the university is not even ranked in the usnews top 130 universities. Currently I am arranging for a co-advisor here in the current university and looking to continue work with him. I am planning to ask him to keep me posted with all the arrangements being made, and how it would work if there are going to be some unforeseen circumstances and my advisor and co-advisor are not on talking terms. I want to make it clear that everything (funding, role of each advisor, have both the advisors as active, fallback solutions,etc) should be transparent and mutually agreed. Is that a right thing to ask? If that doesnt work out, I am planning to talk to the department head and decide the next course of action. In worst cases, I would come out with a masters and apply for a better univ next academic year. I now have a chance to quit and make sure the damage is little, if any thing doesnt work out, and if I am half way through the thesis, I would be stuck with no where to go. Thats the reason, I am insistent on keeping everything clear and transparent and choosing the best thing to do.

you might think I am selfish... but I am not altruistic to place myself in complex situations considering other's situations.

[IRdreams]

I'm not in the sciences so my opinion might not count, but I would never move with an adviser who was moving down the rankings. In my field if you are at a school in the top 25 or so, you have as reasonable a chance at Academic placement as can be hoped. However, the placement rankings for the 26th and below schools drop below 4%. First and foremost you owe yourself the best chance at securing a reasonable job in the future which moving would seem to preclude if your field follows a similar pattern.

Furthermore, on the adviser's guilt trip tactics: I actually find his argument rather ridiculous and underhanded. Again, you owe him nothing. Graduate students are notoriously underpaid. He received your services for several years at a low rate and it sounds like he got a lot out of the interaction. Even if he paid you out of his grant, the work you did for that pay is ALL he is due. One of the downsides of academia is that graduate students are often taken advantage of, especially due to our relative lack of information about academia. First and foremost, programs need RAs and TAs and they need more of these than they need young Professors so already grad school is set up somewhat like a ponzi scheme. While some programs are honorable in how they address these realities of the profession, others are not due to a fear that they would lose much wanted labor. My suspicion is that your advisers tactics fall within this deplorable tradition.

[Eigen]

Again, if you've passed Quals (which you have), you will likely graduate from your current institution no matter where you finish the work from. And if that name is on you degree, does it really matter that some of your work was done at a lower ranked school?

As to the ponzi scheme... I'm not saying it doesn't exist in the sciences, but it's much more of a humanities issue.

[natsteel]

Again, if you've passed Quals (which you have), you will likely graduate from your current institution no matter where you finish the work from. And if that name is on you degree, does it really matter that some of your work was done at a lower ranked school?

As to the ponzi scheme... I'm not saying it doesn't exist in the sciences, but it's much more of a humanities issue.

What Eigen says is true. However, I don't understand why anyone would want to follow a younger faculty member who, I assume, has been denied tenure to a lower-ranked university. Perhaps if you had a really good relationship with the professor you could complete your work at the new place while still earning the degree from the better university. For example, in the Humanities, once you finish your exams, you can write your dissertation away from the university. But that doesn't seem to be the case here and you seem to be looking forward to working with new people at the current school. Just stay firm.