Usefulness of a MPA/MPP

[adollarninetynine]

Hello all,

I was wondering what you guys thought of the job prospects/pay after obtaining one of those degrees? I am also going to be attending a top law school and many seem to tell me that a MPA/MPP degree is pretty much worthless and going to lead to no job opportunities by itself? what are your experiences with this?

[fenderpete]

You need to be a touch more specific as to what you want to do career-wise before we can help out much, although I'm not too sure I like the 'MPAs are pretty much worthless' line.

[adollarninetynine]

I am sure it is not worthless but that is the sentiment that is shared around the law schools i visited. I am looking at a non profit or government position working with education reform mostly.

[fishpoo]

hehehe, that's kind of how I feel about a law degree

anywho, here is some evidence of some people working in educational reform with their worthwhile MPP degrees:

http://www.studentsfirst.org/blog/entry/meet-the-staff-nithya-joseph-says-shes-inspired-by-those-working-for-change#

http://www.all4ed.org/about_the_alliance/susan-lusi

http://democrats.edworkforce.house.gov/newsroom/2011/02/miller-announces-promotions-to.shtml

An MPP/MPA will open up a lot of doors for you, as will a law degree. The prestige of those opportunities and payscale (and a whole slough of other details) will depend most on who YOU are and the type of experiences you gather under your belt while in school, and after graduation. It will also depend on which school you attend (moreso for law school than for public policy schools):

- some schools have better employment rates for graduates than others

- Some schools are targeted more heavily by big consulting agencies or federal agencies depending on the quality/prestige of the program (and location, e.g., DC)

I am sure it is not worthless but that is the sentiment that is shared around the law schools i visited. I am looking at a non profit or government position working with education reform mostly.

[fishpoo]

Hrm.... I just reread your initial question - Why ask if you're already going to a top law school? hahaha

[adollarninetynine]

i havent started to attend yet and i had a deep interest in a mpa/mpp. was thinking about doing a dual program so was inquiring.

[abogs78]

ADollarninetynine,

I don't think it makes sense for you to come to the MPA/MPP forum to feel the pulse of people here regarding jobs prospects after graduation. Some of us just got into schools and the last thing we need is someone telling us ahead of time that some law school smucks believe that MPP/MPA degrees are worthless. If you have heard from folks in law school that MPA/MPP are worthless, then you need to be the one to make up your mind regarding why you are going for an MPA/MPP degree in the first place. I am sure there are a lot of people who will say going to law school is a waste of time as well because of the high price tag of attending law schools, without any idea whether you will get a job or not once you graduate.

I am sure you can say that about any degree. Getting an MBA or a JD does not lead to jobs just like that particularly in this economy. It is all about what you bring to the table, your experience and sometimes, knowing one or two people in the job arena you want to work in at the end of the day could also be useful. So, like others rightly said, how about apply first, go for your MPA/MPP and then decide if in fact it is really worthless. Pheewwwww......I just got pissed off with that line "'MPAs are pretty much worthless' line." I guess you need to ask Ban Ki-Moon, Klaus Schwab, David Petraeus, Paul Volcker and Eliott Spitzer if their MPA/MPP degrees are worthless

Edited July 5, 2011 by abogs78

[fenderpete]

I struggled a bit not to post an angry reply to that too, and Abogs has put it pretty diplomatically. In all honesty, a JD is pretty useless from my standpoint in development unless you want to work on human rights lobbying in the US. The world is also fairly lousy with lawyers at the minute, and I've heard it's getting crazily competitive to find a job after pouring tens of thousands of dollars into tuition (plus a lot of time). One thing you need to think a little about is your attitude - you've come in here asking for advice from MPA degree holders/applicants and instantaneously alienated everyone with your trite remark. That's not an attitude that'll get you far in any non-profit.

From what you've described as your interests, I can't help thinking an MPP or MA focusing on education might be a better fit. If you want to do a dual program you'd probably need to apply in a different year as you need to register for both courses at the same time for most institutions.

[Hall&Oates]

What are your goals?

An MPA can be very useful for the quantitative curriculum in particular the stats and econ which you may not find in a law program. Harvard's Kennedy School says that MPP graduates might expect around $60K upon graduation. If you're a lawyer going into white-collar crime prosecution, for example, it could be a complementary skill-set. An MPA would help a lawyer understand implementation of the law. A lawyer would argue in the Bakke case, an M.P.A. at the University of California might be tasked with implementing the judge's decision. Public policy degrees are fairly flexible so they are advisable only so far as your interests are defined.

I appreciate your skepticism since it is expensive and two years. We all need to pay bills and I understand that. Here's a good rule of thumb though: If money motivates you more than the service element, you're barking up the wrong tree. Stick to white-shoe law firms like Akin. Public policy programs are more idealistic than are legal ones. Charlie Rose, for example, went to law school and dropped out because he found it chilly and destructive.

[adollarninetynine]

i am sorry to offend anyone maybe my word choice was too blunt. this was certainly not a sentiment shared by me, i was just wondering what you guys were planning on doing and what you guys knew about job prospects. basically wanted hear some thoughts from you guys since you have all already applied and will be attending as I have still not applied.

[fishpoo]

There are forum discussions on this board about the value of a dual JD/MPP degree. Word on the street is that THAT degree may have little use. (I'm not knowledgable on the topic of dual degrees, by the way. I suggest you find those other discussions).

i am sorry to offend anyone maybe my word choice was too blunt. this was certainly not a sentiment shared by me, i was just wondering what you guys were planning on doing and what you guys knew about job prospects. basically wanted hear some thoughts from you guys since you have all already applied and will be attending as I have still not applied.

Edited July 6, 2011 by fishpoo

[fenderpete]

i am sorry to offend anyone maybe my word choice was too blunt. this was certainly not a sentiment shared by me, i was just wondering what you guys were planning on doing and what you guys knew about job prospects. basically wanted hear some thoughts from you guys since you have all already applied and will be attending as I have still not applied.

No problem, we all misspeak and online isn't the best format for getting your thoughts across at times.

I think development/public affairs has always been an insanely competitive field for jobs, and unfortunately the economy hasn't helped lately (donor money isn't as forthcoming = less program staff can be hired) and I'm not sure it'll fully rebound to the level it was at before the recession, due to a shift in focus to training and using national staff over international expats. That being said, an MA is now becoming the minimum qualification in our field to get anywhere, combined with relevant work experience. For me, in international development, that means overseas work and plenty of it. For you I'm assuming it'd be relevant work in local/state/federal education?

The work experience one is a big thing, as in this market you're not going to get hired unless you can prove you've done something pretty similar before in the past, so building that portfolio of past work is pretty important - and imo is better to do before grad school, as you may find out it completely changes what you want to focus on in grad school (and thus the programs you apply for).

Am I right in thinking you haven't applied for law school yet either, or do you mean you haven't applied to MPAs but do have a place in law school already?

The best advice I can give you is to look at programs and see where their graduates ended up working, and think about whether you want to do something more legalistic or more policy/NGO related. Having a JD won't hurt you for jobs in public policy (and having an MPA won't hurt you for a legal career) but it may just be a roundabout way to get there depending on exactly what you want to end up doing.

What are your medium and long-term career goals? You said working for non-profits, but what type in what field? What sorts of organisations? What sort of role (program staff, finance, legal, HR)?

If you narrow that down a bit I'm sure folks will be happy to help out.

[ZeChocMoose]

Since you said that you are interested in education reform, I am assuming that you are interested on the K - 12 level. Usually with those types of jobs, you'll need to have a sufficient level of practical experiences in the field of education before anyone is going to pay you to "reform" it.

I am not sure if there is a lot of value in pursuing a law degree if you are interested in education reform. It would be more helpful to have an education policy MA or MPP and some relevant work experience. If you rather work in education law than go with the JD. Otherwise, I would rethink especially since law school tuition can be expensive.

Edited July 6, 2011 by ZeChocMoose

[carpecc]

A law degree teaches you about the law, just the law. It's great for research and law policy, but mostly teaches you how to work in court, law firm, or government bureaus that writes the law.

An MPA and MPP is a much more flexible degree, it can be about many different things. The MPA specifically teaches you management (HR, accounting, etc) for government work. It's going to cover different areas then a law degree.

If you want to write law or policy then law school is a good bet. If you want a job more administrative, management or multidisciplinary then an MPA or MPP is better. If you want to do law work, but have the admin skills, then do the dual degree.

[MYRNIST]

The irony of someone attending law school calling out another degree program as being an unwise choice in terms of finding a job is rich indeed. Original poster, you are aware that there is a massive over-supply of lawyers, particularly young ones, in the US right? ABA has accredited so many schools, and so many humanities majors see a law degree as a ticket to a sinecure that there are simply too many candidates for too few jobs. I forget the exact stat, but something like 40% of law graduates do not find meaningful legal employment within 2 years after graduation.

It's probably more accurate to say it's a tough job market for any young person right now.

[adollarninetynine]

reading comprehension is your friend, i never said that, i was told this and was merely asking for opinions.

[MYRNIST]

reading comprehension is your friend, i never said that, i was told this and was merely asking for opinions.

As it is yours; my scorn was referring to the law students who communicated the "sentiment that is shared around the law schools i visited", not you personally. I cited the arguments against that view as reasons why you shouldn't believe the law students.

Edited July 25, 2011 by MYRNIST