Medieval History Preparation

[LukeZ]

Hey guys, I am going into my third year of undergrad at a small school in Florida and am a History and Philosophy/Religion double major. I would like to study medieval history (especially medieval religion) in grad school in either a history or religious studies program. My question is whether I have enough undergrad preparation for graduate work in this field despite my small school's limited course offerings.

Here are courses related to medieval history that I have completed: Western Civ. I (pretty basic, but the professor was a medievalist), Medieval Europe, History of Christianity (again, the professor was a medievalist).

Here are the courses I should be able to have taken before I graduate that are applicable: A year of Latin and a year of German, a class on St. Francis and Franciscan theology, and hopefully either a class on Medieval Religious Minorities or a class on the Crusades.

Are these courses sufficient preparation?

[Derfasciti]

Hey guys, I am going into my third year of undergrad at a small school in Florida and am a History and Philosophy/Religion double major. I would like to study medieval history (especially medieval religion) in grad school in either a history or religious studies program. My question is whether I have enough undergrad preparation for graduate work in this field despite my small school's limited course offerings.

Here are courses related to medieval history that I have completed: Western Civ. I (pretty basic, but the professor was a medievalist), Medieval Europe, History of Christianity (again, the professor was a medievalist).

Here are the courses I should be able to have taken before I graduate that are applicable: A year of Latin and a year of German, a class on St. Francis and Franciscan theology, and hopefully either a class on Medieval Religious Minorities or a class on the Crusades.

Are these courses sufficient preparation?

I am not a medievalist, however, I did flirt with the idea with quite a while and I had a long conversation with a medieval t historian at my undergrad institution about how to prep for it so I DO have some suggestions.

Firstly, are you wanting to go into an MA program or a ph.d program right away? The latter will probably expect much more from you than if you wer just doing an MA first.

Languages. German can be really useful but make sure the Latin you're taking is Ecclesiastical Latin. Try to take some independent study courses on it (even at my small institution we had a Medievalist in the English department teaching it). In my experience, even at an MA level two years' worth of a target language can look really good for you. My impression is that Medievalists, depending on their specific research interests, ultimately have to learn A LOT about other languages. So keep that in mind.

As for the courses - So long as you get good grades in them you should be ok. AFAIK the types of courses you've taken aren't what makes or breaks you. Your sample writing, your statement of purpose, and your letters of recommendation go much further than what classes you've taken.

You seem to be on the right track!

[sacklunch]

You will need more preparation in languages if you plan on applying for a PhD. Talk with your professors about what would best suit your interests, ect.

Consider applying to a lot of masters in theology/religious studies. There are a lot more funded/partially funded theology masters degrees than a lot of other humanities degrees (my opinion).

good luck.

[pudewen]

You will need more preparation in languages if you plan on applying for a PhD. Talk with your professors about what would best suit your interests, ect.

The language point can't be emphasized enough. You should have a strong reading knowledge of Latin before even thinking about applying for a PhD. My impression is that it would probably be preferable if the Latin included some work specifically in Medieval Latin, but since I'm guessing that isn't available at your school, take as much Latin as you possibly can. If you haven't taken any yet, take it for both of your remaining years; two years isn't enough, but that's one less year you'll have to do post-grad, whether independently or in a Master's program.

As for other languages, if you can manage it, French and German would both be very useful.

To get into a PhD program, you'll almost certainly have to be at a very high level of Latin, and programs would probably be happier if you'd done some French or German too. If you want to work on a topic that would make something other than Latin your primary research language (say, Old Norse or Byzantine Greek) you definitely should try to find a way to start preparing for that as well. Frankly, I don't think you'll find it possible to be ready for a PhD program by the end of undergrad, but that's no reason to be discouraged! Many Masters programs are designed for getting people up to speed in languages in order to enter a PhD, and you should have time to do enough to be very competitive for good MA programs (assuming your other stuff: writing sample, statement of purpose, recs, etc, is all good).

[LukeZ]

Thanks for the input guys. I know the language issue is really important; I would have liked to have two years of Latin, but they are not offering Latin this coming year due to lack of demand, so I'll only have it my last year. It is possible that I'd be able to have a second year of German and/or a year of French by the end of it all. I'll definitely look into doing a Latin independent study though. I also plan on looking at theology/religious studies programs as well.

[sankd]

Yeah, frankly nobody takes a medievalist applicant seriously if they are lacking languages.

Get your French, German, Greek, and Latin done.

[Derfasciti]

Thanks for the input guys. I know the language issue is really important; I would have liked to have two years of Latin, but they are not offering Latin this coming year due to lack of demand, so I'll only have it my last year. It is possible that I'd be able to have a second year of German and/or a year of French by the end of it all. I'll definitely look into doing a Latin independent study though. I also plan on looking at theology/religious studies programs as well.

LukeZ,

If I were you I would ask if it was at all possible to take an independent study of Latin. Tell your teacher and your professor your plans on going to grad school and see what they can do to help you. Another idea is to buy this: http://www.amazon.com/Primer-Ecclesiastical-Latin-John-Collins/dp/0813206677/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310386829&sr=8-1 -- you should also get the accompanying answer key too (it's a whole 'nother book).

The independent study teacher at my institution used the very same text and is apparently one of the better books out there to teach yourself Church Latin. While yo may not get immediate credit for studying it, putting that you've studied it independently on your statement of purpose and then taking a test to prove it is MUCH better than not taking a language. Even as a modern Europeanist, I often regret not taking more of a specific language or wishing I went to an institution that had more variety. The fact of the matter is language preparation is extremely important for any non-Americanist historian and having a lot of it under your belt before you apply to an MA or a Ph.d program will demonstrate dedication and look really nice.

[LukeZ]

Thanks a lot Derfasciti! That book looks like a great tool.

[Batavi]

I'm doing Ancient History so for applications I often fall in between Classics and History departments.

I'd suggest you keep yourself open to studying in Classics departments as well (for an MA) - Notre Dame has a fantastic religious/classical/late antiquity MA programme which is fully funded.

Take a look at it - The Late antiquity programme offers you the chance to improve your languages without having too high minimum requirements and is highly specialized in religion/theology.

[LukeZ]

I'm doing Ancient History so for applications I often fall in between Classics and History departments.

I'd suggest you keep yourself open to studying in Classics departments as well (for an MA) - Notre Dame has a fantastic religious/classical/late antiquity MA programme which is fully funded.

Take a look at it - The Late antiquity programme offers you the chance to improve your languages without having too high minimum requirements and is highly specialized in religion/theology.

For sure man, their M.T.S. program actually looks really promising as well.

[hildewijch]

To add a secondary question to the thread - how important would you folks say paleography training is? I am trying to decide between a paleography seminar and a medieval literature content course which looks like it would be a lot of fun...

[maeisenb]

I would say that if you're worried about languages, stay away from Classics, since then you will have to know Latin and Greek for sure.

My question is this actually. Does anyone know of any programs that specialize in the early medieval field, but aren't top tier (Harvard, Princeton, UCLA, etc.)? So that they would create a better spread in applications? Thanks.

[sankd]

Just stay away from Classics, period.

Edited July 20, 2011 by sankd

[maeisenb]

Paleography is a really useful tool, so I would say go for it if you're going to look at a lot of documents. Especially Norman/Angevin England or Carolingian. You will really need it, if you're into that

[CageFree]

You should have at least two languages DOWN before applying for a PhD. Ideally, you have Latin, French, German and possibly Greek (depending on the program). If you haven't taken French or German, then pick one and do it for the next TWO years. Then, plan to do a summer intensive course in Greek. You'd only need to do one more language.

For Latin, make sure the courses are translation courses.

Best thing to do is to look around for programs that seem to match your interests, and then look at the language requirements for those programs. For example, I've found that in Latin America, they pretty much all want Spanish and Portuguese, but some want another language, like French or a native language. That varies by program.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Teacher4PhD

[maeisenb]

Anyone else out there do Medieval History? Earlier Medievalists in particular?

[remenis]

Anyone else out there do Medieval History? Earlier Medievalists in particular?

I do medieval history. I'm primarily interested in the social and economic history of the medieval Mediterranean. Most of my research thus far has been in the late medieval 12th-13th centuries range, with a focus on Catalan and Genoese notarial cartularies, but I'm also interested in studying the earlier middle ages as well.

[maeisenb]

I do medieval history. I'm primarily interested in the social and economic history of the medieval Mediterranean. Most of my research thus far has been in the late medieval 12th-13th centuries range, with a focus on Catalan and Genoese notarial cartularies, but I'm also interested in studying the earlier middle ages as well.

Very cool! Where are you thinking of applying? I don't know the run down on late medieval economic historians, although I know Michael McCormick does large scale economic Mediterranean history. (I think he advises people who do late medieval stuff even if his expertise is a bit earlier.)

[remenis]

Very cool! Where are you thinking of applying? I don't know the run down on late medieval economic historians, although I know Michael McCormick does large scale economic Mediterranean history. (I think he advises people who do late medieval stuff even if his expertise is a bit earlier.)

I'm thinking of applying to Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, UChicago, UC Santa Barbara, UMichegan, UMinnesota, UToronto, and Yale, although I may add or drop some from that list as I work my way through the apps.

There aren't a huge number of medieval economic historians but there are a few. I have read some of McCormick's work and I definitely find it interesting even if my primary focus is a bit later.

What are your main research interests and where are you thinking about applying?

[maeisenb]

I'm thinking of applying to Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, UChicago, UC Santa Barbara, UMichegan, UMinnesota, UToronto, and Yale, although I may add or drop some from that list as I work my way through the apps.

What are your main research interests and where are you thinking about applying?

I tend toward a blend of some social and some economic stuff, as my particular interest, although certainly do have an interest in some cultural stuff as well. My list is basically the same actually, just without Minnesota, Toronto, and Columbia, while adding in Berkeley and UCLA, although as you said might change depending on how stuff goes. Plus, I'll probably apply to a few places in England, although the funding there is much tougher.

[remenis]

I tend toward a blend of some social and some economic stuff, as my particular interest, although certainly do have an interest in some cultural stuff as well. My list is basically the same actually, just without Minnesota, Toronto, and Columbia, while adding in Berkeley and UCLA, although as you said might change depending on how stuff goes. Plus, I'll probably apply to a few places in England, although the funding there is much tougher.

Yeah I'm not surprised about the overlap - we have picked out a lot of the strong medieval programs

[Loimographia]

I'm a medievalist! Late medieval Italian economics/social history (I'm really interested in the cultural influence of merchants in Northern Italy). So glad to see fellow medievalists around, since it seemed like 90% of my graduating class was US history... I actually have a question as well: I took three semesters of Latin in University (and couldn't take a fourth in Medieval Latin because the prof. decided to teach a different class that semester). But, I'm only currently getting started on my other two languages, French and Italian. I'm taking night courses on both, but do you think this will be enough? I went out of my way to mention it in my SOP, but a promise to take a year of a language, rather than evidence of actual completion, seems so flimsy... That said, I took Japanese in highschool, so I feel like I started behind the curve as of eight years ago, since it seems like everyone I know studied either French or Latin back then.

[remenis]

Hey Loimographia! So glad to see another medievalist around especially another person interested late medieval social/economic history

I think that applying with only three semesters of Latin and beginning work in French and Italian is probably going to be a weak spot in your application but one you could be able to work around if the rest of your application is strong. It's just tough because languages are so essential for medieval history but I think you're doing the best you can at the moment - you're showing them that you've identified how important the language preparations are and that you are working hard at gaining those skills.

Maybe someone else can offer more insight into this too but one grad student I know told me not to worry too much about having "proof" of knowing a language until you get in - lots of people learn languages outside of formal schooling and the grad committees can't always track down how and where you learned what. What matters is that when you get there to take your language test (pretty much always a test just on your reading ability and often with a dictionary) you prove that you can translate (most of) writing in that language into English.

Have you done primary source research using documents written in Latin? Also have you thought about continuing into intermediate level courses during the summer? A lot of colleges offer accelerated language classes that cover a years worth of the language in just a month and a half (although they unfortunately aren't cheap).

HTH

[Sigaba]

My question is this actually. Does anyone know of any programs that specialize in the early medieval field, but aren't top tier (Harvard, Princeton, UCLA, etc.)? So that they would create a better spread in applications? Thanks.

maeisenb--

Consider taking a look at the University of Southern California. Check to see if USC and UCLA have an arrangement that allows professors from UCLA to sit on doctoral committees for graduate students at Southern Cal. (USC may have such agreements with other schools as well.)

A head's up is in order. You will never in your life meet a sharper historian that USC's resident medievalist, Jason Glen.

HTH.

[Sparky]

Maybe someone else can offer more insight into this too but one grad student I know told me not to worry too much about having "proof" of knowing a language until you get in - lots of people learn languages outside of formal schooling and the grad committees can't always track down how and where you learned what.

No.

Adcoms want proof.

The "self-proclaimed language auto-didact" is a very real phenomenon in graduate school applications (as well as at conferences... ). Inflating your language abilities in your SOP is *such* an easy thing to do, and it's so tempting to convince yourself that you're not *really* cheating b/c, after all, you're going to spend the rest of the spring and the summer really learning that language, right? Adcoms do not look kindly on informal language training. If you don't have coursework to back it up, you can make it up through (in the case of Latin) sitting for the SAT II or Toronto's language exam, or by having a prof attest in an LOR that you worked with Latin primary sources that have never been translated quite beautifully for a paper, or by getting an LOR from a tutor or some such. Get proof. (You are actively taking extra classes--that looks so awesome and dedicated and is just what adcoms are looking for. Go you.)

On the other hand, I would say three semesters of Latin and one beginning modern language will not put you out of the count in medieval. I'm a medievalist (late medieval) as well, and although I did know German pretty well, it wasn't attested on my transcript beyond the AP transfer credit (!)...and I only had one semester of Latin (the grad intro class...which I guess is the equivalent of 2 or 3 undergrad semesters, depending on the school).

Make sure your writing sample uses original source primary texts, though! Whether Latin or Italian!

I do second remenis' advice about taking an intermediate Latin class this summer. Most of the medieval-friendly grad programs will offer an intermediate class as well as the standard graduate beginner one, and if your program does, you can probably get your financial aid to kick in during the summer and pay for it!