Fall 2012 Applicant Chit Chat

[oseirus]

I used to daydream about being a top pro athlete, and about being a rock star...now I day dream about being accepted to Yale, Columbia, Penn and Princeton and still not have heard from my top choice ??!!?? Totally insane. Just like I wanted to be Emmitt Smith when I was growing up, I now want to be Safferz!!!!

...btw, Safferz, instead of just declining your Penn admission, can you assign to one of us?? We can decide on a lottery basis or by way of a special essay contest...or by who has the best stand-up routine (throwing you a bone, oseirus)...

Man you are too kind this morning however I bet New England Nat will swoop in last minute and deliver a KILLER set. No no, can't go the comedy route. I have too many detention slips in my past for "class clownery" as one teacher so helpfully put it. I have a counter-counter proposal. How about her slot be given to another African history major? BUT the caveat is it has to be someone on grad cafe and it doesn't matter if they even applied there. I wonder who THAT could be? Hmmm ... I wish that person would come forward

[oseirus]

After one has been accepted into programs is it normal to not contact the program at all until a decision has been made? I'm 95% I'm going in one direction, but I feel like I'd be foolish to not wait until every decision and offer has been made before I move to contact someone within the department?

I think the previous consensus was that once you are accepted the onus is on the school to sort of woo you. They make the offers etc and you can even play one school against the other. Unless of course your dream school has come a-courting, then it is a buyer's market in your case.

[ReallyNiceGuy]

I mean the school made an offer, I really like the school, and barring something crazy happening from the schools that are left, I have essentially made a decision.

Should I just wait until a 100% decision has been made before contacting them?

*yes, I'm very concerned about manners and being very polite at all times. I also don't want to break any rule I'm unaware of.

[maeisenb]

I mean the school made an offer, I really like the school, and barring something crazy happening from the schools that are left, I have essentially made a decision.

Should I just wait until a 100% decision has been made before contacting them?

*yes, I'm very concerned about manners and being very polite at all times. I also don't want to break any rule I'm unaware of.

Well I think you have to sign and send them something formal to accept their offer and a lot of schools haven't sent that out yet. But overall probably comes down to your comfort level really and if you want to visit and take few weeks to think about it. I think if you're accepted at a bunch of places and there are those you know you won't go to, then sure let them know. I would think about it as college admissions if you had choices in April when you got into a few places, but the one huge key would be make sure to talk to your POIs at other places regardless, since they are also going to be in your field for your academic career. Just remember to be polite and gracious to everyone at every place.

[New England Nat]

So there is a contract that will come in the paperwork for your admission if you haven't received it yet, the couple I got came a few days to a few weeks after the email saying I'd been accepted. The American Association of University Professors (or something like that I can't remember the name exactly) basically says that the schools should give you until April 1st to make decisions, but much to some of the schools annoyance, other schools will pressure you to make a decision before that point. I had a conversation about this with my Graduate Program Administrator and that's part of what is pushing this process earlier and earlier every year.

Once a school has extended you a funded offer with paperwork it is a binding contract, it can only be revoked in the case of fraud on your part. If they've accepted you they want you. Some of them will woo you to a greater or lesser extent. I have a sibling with a PhD in history and the amount of wooing that went on from one school after they made an offer really surprised her. But either way, after you have an offer in hand the "don't contact them you can only do harm" rule is out the window. You should feel free to email anyone within the department that you believe can answer any questions that will help you make decisions.

[StrangeLight]

I mean the school made an offer, I really like the school, and barring something crazy happening from the schools that are left, I have essentially made a decision.

Should I just wait until a 100% decision has been made before contacting them?

*yes, I'm very concerned about manners and being very polite at all times. I also don't want to break any rule I'm unaware of.

you should contact your POIs at all of the schools you've been admitted to. copy the DGS on each of these emails, but no need to address them directly. thank the POI for the acceptance, tell him/her that you're extremely excited about beginning a PhD program in the fall, but mention that you have other offers and are still waiting on a few decisions, so you'll keep in touch with them as the process moves forward.

ideally, you should do this with each school after receiving your acceptance, even/especially if you are notified by clicking through some website and seeing a form letter of congratulations. you want to make contact with the human beings you'll possibly be dealing with.

in cases where you're certain you won't be going to a certain school, thank them kindly and decline the offer as quickly as you can. almost all schools have (informal) waitlists, and even if they don't, they've set aside a funding stream for you. if you don't use the funding, it can potentially go to a student in their 6th or 7th year (when they're out of guaranteed funding**).

say you have 3 acceptances and are waiting on 2 more schools. if you absolutely know you won't be going to 1 of the 3 schools, thank them very kindly for their offer of admission and decline it ASAP. if you've been accepted to your top school with full funding, you can also consider withdrawing your application from some schools that haven't notified you yet but that you definitely won't be attending. in situations where schools have accepted you but no funding offer has been made yet, just sit tight. wait it out. still contact the POIs and thank them for the admission, but don't accept or reject those offers yet.

**given that the average "to completion" times for PhDs is somewhere between 6 and 8 years, almost all of us will be confronted with at least one year over our guaranteed funding packages. sometimes these extra years come through prestigious fellowships like the ACLS mellon or the SSRC IDRF, but more often, they come through an extra year of TAing because a fellow student at an earlier stage secured an external fellowship and has therefore freed up a TA "slot" for a given year.

[Hopin'-n-Prayin']

in situations where schools have accepted you but no funding offer has been made yet, just sit tight. wait it out. still contact the POIs and thank them for the admission, but don't accept or reject those offers yet.

So if may ask some follow up questions: in this situation, contact the POI, but do I do anything more than thank them for the admission? Do I mention that I have not recieved a funding offer or that pending a decision on funding by the school I will let them know if I will be attending? Do I mention other pending apps, etc...? Any feedback by you others with insight would be appreciated...

[TMP]

H&P, look out for your PM.

[telemaque]

So if may ask some follow up questions: in this situation, contact the POI, but do I do anything more than thank them for the admission? Do I mention that I have not recieved a funding offer or that pending a decision on funding by the school I will let them know if I will be attending? Do I mention other pending apps, etc...? Any feedback by you others with insight would be appreciated...

I'd like to know this too.

[TMP]

Same for you, telemaque.

[crazedandinfused]

Just to kind of jump on the bandwagon: It's totally reasonable to ask a prof if he/she is tenured in order to be certain that they will actually be in the department for 6-8 years, right? I know it's not good to go to a program based on one POI, but in this case he tips the balance.

[virmundi]

Just to kind of jump on the bandwagon: It's totally reasonable to ask a prof if he/she is tenured in order to be certain that they will actually be in the department for 6-8 years, right? I know it's not good to go to a program based on one POI, but in this case he tips the balance.

Dear C&I -- I wonder if this POI is an Assistant Professor or Associate Professor? Typically, at least in my experience, Assistant Professors are in the process of getting tenure while Associate Professor is the rank that one acquires post-tenure.

Edited February 12, 2012 by virmundi

[Gene Parmesan]

This is all brilliant advice. Especially because people in similar sub-fields apply to similar schools, so when one person has respectfully declined, units shift, and spots open more efficiently for other applicants. Also, the more respectful and professional one is about declining an offer in advance, the more you'll be respected by said academics later in your career if you happen to come across them in some context. I'm personally doing my best to sort through my top three schools (between those I've received offers from and those I'm still waiting from) in order to be fair to other applicants.

So if may ask some follow up questions: in this situation, contact the POI, but do I do anything more than thank them for the admission? Do I mention that I have not recieved a funding offer or that pending a decision on funding by the school I will let them know if I will be attending? Do I mention other pending apps, etc...? Any feedback by you others with insight would be appreciated...

In this case, I would say something like: "While I have been notified that funding is still being sorted with the department, I look forward to hear news regarding financial aid, as well as learning more about the department and its students." That way you emphasize that you're not just waiting for an offer before you take them seriosuly..that you're thinking ahead of funding and considering a multitude of options/trajectories. A respectful and thoughtful response to your POI might provoke them to say "WHY HASN'T THIS STUDENT RECEIVED FUNDING YET?!" Thus leading to a multi year funding package resulting in your receiving the bancroft prize and a tenured post at Harvard and yada yada yada..

[Ganymede18]

UToronto's Center for Medieval Studies announced. Don't know if anybody else here applied.

[New England Nat]

Just to kind of jump on the bandwagon: It's totally reasonable to ask a prof if he/she is tenured in order to be certain that they will actually be in the department for 6-8 years, right? I know it's not good to go to a program based on one POI, but in this case he tips the balance.

In nearly all places except Harvard and Hopkins, Assistant Professors do not have tenure and Associate Professors do. In some of the top programs it is absolutely acceptable to ask when the last time they tenured an assistant professor was. Some of them do not, though many say they are changing. Yale and Harvard traditionally didn't. Princeton didn't until the last few years (there was a scandal about junior female faculty and there is still a fair bit of angst about junior female faculty here).

[New England Nat]

That way you emphasize that you're not just waiting for an offer before you take them seriosuly..that you're thinking ahead of funding and considering a multitude of options/trajectories.

I actually disagree, I think given the humanities PhD market it's perfectly acceptable to say. "I'm interested in your school but I have funded offers else where, and I can't go to your program without (or without significant) funding."

[taybaxter]

I just got a very confusing email from a POI at Columbia. She responded to an inquiry I sent her a while ago. Very thoroughly. Encouragingly. I wasn't accepted last week but haven't been rejected yet either. But, if I had been rejected, why would she take the time to respond as she did...ugh so confused

Edited February 12, 2012 by taybaxter

[telemaque]

I just got a very confusing email from a POI at Columbia. She responded to an inquiry I sent her two months ago. Very thoroughly. Encouragingly. I wasn't accepted last week but haven't been rejected yet either. But, if I had been rejected, why would she take the time to respond as she did...ugh so confused

Maybe they're not done accepting people?

[Gene Parmesan]

I actually disagree, I think given the humanities PhD market it's perfectly acceptable to say. "I'm interested in your school but I have funded offers else where, and I can't go to your program without (or without significant) funding."

I agree with you. Very acceptable, indeed. Making it clear is important. But I feel like thats the kind of thing you relay to the grad director/advisor. Not necessarily to the person you want to work with, in my opinion. Most profs know you can't go somewhere without funding or have other offers. I guess I just saw it as leaving a good/lasting impression on your POI whether or not you've contacted them before. Either way, it doesn't hurt to contact your POI after the acceptance.

[Simple Twist of Fate]

I used to daydream about being a top pro athlete, and about being a rock star...now I day dream about being accepted to Yale, Columbia, Penn and Princeton and still not have heard from my top choice ??!!?? Totally insane. Just like I wanted to be Emmitt Smith when I was growing up, I now want to be Safferz!!!!

Haha, yes. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to be a pro athlete or rock star, though.

[Safferz]

I used to daydream about being a top pro athlete, and about being a rock star...now I day dream about being accepted to Yale, Columbia, Penn and Princeton and still not have heard from my top choice ??!!?? Totally insane. Just like I wanted to be Emmitt Smith when I was growing up, I now want to be Safferz!!!!

...btw, Safferz, instead of just declining your Penn admission, can you assign to one of us?? We can decide on a lottery basis or by way of a special essay contest...or by who has the best stand-up routine (throwing you a bone, oseirus)...

You guys are a riot!!

[remenis]

Maybe they're not done accepting people?

They're not - I got an email from a POI at Columbia last week as well and he said no official decisions would come out for a few weeks. Professors have been slowly letting people who are definately in and definately not in know, but most people (some of whom will get in) will not know for a while.

[oseirus]

I just got a very confusing email from a POI at Columbia. She responded to an inquiry I sent her a while ago. Very thoroughly. Encouragingly. I wasn't accepted last week but haven't been rejected yet either. But, if I had been rejected, why would she take the time to respond as she did...ugh so confused

Did you check the timestamp? Maybe she sent it before decisions were made? There also could be the VERY real possibility that they aren't done w/decisions yet because I think I only saw 2 people say they'd been rejected outright and no one has said they were even wait-listed, which wouldn't make sense. Even if the sample pool here on grade cafe is small, you'd expect to at least see one person wait-listed and more than just 2 people rejected. Hope still exists for some Columbia apps!

[New England Nat]

I just got a very confusing email from a POI at Columbia. She responded to an inquiry I sent her a while ago. Very thoroughly. Encouragingly. I wasn't accepted last week but haven't been rejected yet either. But, if I had been rejected, why would she take the time to respond as she did...ugh so confused

Or maybe she's just interested in your work. I have contact with PoIs from places that both rejected with me and I turned down a year after the process. One of them may be an outside reader for me. Remember you are entering a profession and you will be seeing these people for the rest of your career.

[TMP]

Or maybe she's just interested in your work. I have contact with PoIs from places that both rejected with me and I turned down a year after the process. One of them may be an outside reader for me. Remember you are entering a profession and you will be seeing these people for the rest of your career.

I strongly agree. Let her/him in your circle if s/he shows genuine interest in your work. You want to start building relationships with people outside of your department because everyone is going to help you get a job when you go on the market, not just your department. Yes, they may be disappointed now to have you as their student directly, but they'd like an opportunity to be part of your intellectual development.