UPenn Visit

[bfat]

Howdy folks,

I'm headed to Philadelphia the first weekend in October for a film festival, and I thought I'd check out UPenn while I'm there. I debated about posting this in the "Visits" thread, but since I'm really only interested in the English dept., I thought I'd post it here...

Has anyone visited Penn's English dept? Are they pleasant about walk-ins, or should I make an appointment with someone first? I'm trying to get a feel for the department, but I can't tell much from their website (it's kind a terrible website). My interests are in theory, media/cinema studies, and American culture, and from what I can tell from their course offerings, they seem like a good fit, but I just want some inside info.

Anyone a student there who might want to show me around for an hour or so on Sat., Sun., or Mon.? I'll buy the coffee.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated, thanks!

[asleepawake]

Trying to visit an Ivy that you haven't been accepted to isn't a good idea. You can certainly look around campus, but the faculty members are way too busy to meet with the number of applicants who request a meeting. It would almost always be a waste of their time, since, statistically speaking, said student probably isn't going to be accepted anyway. From your perspective, you might feel more confident in your chances of being accepted, so it might be worth poking around as long as you don't bother anybody. Maybe talk to a student - they'll be less jaded and your interactions can't hurt your application!

Edited September 4, 2011 by asleepawake

[Gvh]

OK, so I realize I do not belong to the English department, but I have to say I disagree with asleepawake; I am hoping to start a masters in the Fall so I visited Harvard this summer and yes, perhaps the staff might be a bit busy, but if you even just went to talk to an admissions counselor, they are more than happy to hear you out. Even they said they like putting a face to a name. Besides, if you're taking the time to go visit a school in the first place, chances are you are a serious applicant and have as good a chance as anybody else of being admitted - indeed perhaps more so, as you took the time to introduce yourself.

[runonsentence]

Speaking with an admissions counselor is entirely different from speaking with a faculty member. It is an admissions counselor's job to meet with potential applicants and work with applications, whereas for faculty it's a side service they provide to the department on top of their teaching and scholarship.

(Though I'm not really sure there's anything to be gained by speaking with someone from the admissions office for graduate applications anyway, as the department adcom is the group of people it will be most difficult to impress.)

I think the above posters had it right. My (admittedly murky) impression from studying the UPenn website three years ago when I applied there was that they weren't incredibly keen on visits.

Edited September 26, 2011 by runonsentence

[0000000000AAA]

Agree with others! The idea isn't just bad, it's awful. "Admissions Counselors" only make decisions for undergrads. Graduate programs essentially handle their own admission. Waltzing into a English dept and asking "so whose got office hours today?" is not going to help your cause.

If you want to appear devoted or serious about the school, but it in the SoP.

[Gvh]

Hah, ok maybe I wasn't too clear. I definitely agree that waltzing into the building and asking to see someone at random is a bad idea. And by 'admissions counselor' I'm not talking about some dude whose job is filing paperwork and showing prospective students around - I'm saying having a personal one-to-one talk with the department's admissions director. This is someone who knows the program inside out and sits on the admissions board. From my personal experience, these people have guided me in terms of helping me get in touch with the faculty members based on your interests etc.

That's all I'm saying -

[bfat]

Um... yeah, I never intended to walk into the English department and ask to speak with someone, other than whatever administrator is at the front desk--sometimes they have pamphlets or info packets, and just walking around the building where the offices and classrooms are can tell you a lot. I visited Cornell this summer (though I have a friend in the English dept. there), and people were very friendly and willing to talk about the school. I really was posting here to see if anyone was attending Penn and might want to meet up for coffee or something. I had no intention of ambushing any professors. Sheesh.

[MGJR]

Sorry I don't live in Philly and so I can't help there but I will say, just to contribute my situation, I did have a sit down meeting with the department chair about a phd program at Harvard a few years ago and it was fabulous (I ended up putting off my app for other reasons).However, I plan on meeting with a few more professors this fall and sitting in on classes. I am always professional when I ask to come so I understand if they can't meet. I am also personable, I like to see what programs are actually like before I commit and that's just my style. I think that it is ultimately better, in all aspects, to be able to put a face to a name on an applicaiton. It also shows your dedication and your willingness to be involved in the department. If an instructor is unable to meet with you then no big deal, completely understandable, but it has certainly never hurt to ask.

[xfgdfrmgpo332]

Hey everyone, so I was gonna start my own thread but this seems like a pretty appropriate place to ask...are visits normal? I'll be applying to places this fall and had planned to take a trip to the Northeast in early December and visit 3 or 4 schools I am interested in applying to, but I don't know what the protocol or expectations are. Some of the comments in this thread have helped, though.

Have most people here visited/plan to visit some of their potential schools (I am talking about before being accepted, or even applying really)? Not even necessarily to sit and chat with Professor XYZ, but just to check out the town, campus, and department....

One more thing - though this a really dumb question, I've wondered about this - do the top English grad schools have interviews? Obviously Harvard isn't going to interview all 762 or whatever applicants...but is there an interview process for the top tier of the pool to help them decide?

[ComeBackZinc]

Uh, people are aware that non-Ivy universities also have busy professors, right? (Many of who develop extremely prominent and important research.) The reflexive "we're talking about an Ivy!" attitude around here is so reductive.

Also, people visit departments before they are accepted all the time. There are various ways to approach this, of differing levels of formality. Yes, of course it's a bad idea to show up and expect to speak to individual professors, but who is advocating that? You can email the graduate school and ask them for the procedure about how to visit the school. They'll likely talk to you about tours and general grad school stuff. You'll find that department websites list contact info for those inquiring about the grad program. You can shoot a short, respectful, non-presumptuous email to the graduate director's office (or someone who fulfills a similar function) and say that you are interested in visiting and ask if that's possible. They'll likely be used to it. If they say no, they've said no and there's no big deal. If they say yes, work the program.

I don't know why people are insisting that this is some terrible faux pas. We just had a prospective (not yet admitted) grad student come for a visit and meet some of us and some professors. It happens all the time.

[runonsentence]

I agree it's reductive to apply this thinking to all Ivies. The advice I gave was based on my (again, admittedly murky) knowledge of the department culture at UPenn, which I perceived to being somewhat unwelcoming of visits, or at least in contrast to some other departments I applied to that year (e.g., UNC-Chapel Hill, who aren't slouches).

[ComeBackZinc]

I understand. Sorry if I was snippy. My comment wasn't intended to be directed at you particularly and I apologize for being cross.

[runonsentence]

No worries, you're fine

[ecritdansleau]

I actually think it's wise to do this if you take a productive approach to it--just walking around town or campus might bring to attention university resources/cultural centers that help you realize why the school is a good fit for you (and you can incorporate such facts into your SOP). I recommend thinking beforehand of what might be important to you; for instance, it is difficult for me to imagine being productive without having positive feelings towards a university's library system, and even, ideally the library building, study spaces, etc.. That being said, sometimes there are library tours available, or librarians to speak to, who can easily point to some of the more famous collections they possess--if they have collections pertinent to your research interests, this another thing you can add to your SOP.

Keep in mind that the sort of visit one might have before admission is necessarily very different from the kind of visit one has if one has been admitted, and departments put more of their resources and energy into the latter. I think part of the reason for this might be that--much in contrast to the nature of undergraduate visits, where the prospective student is more like a customer--PhD programs give funding/jobs to their students--it follows that they really shouldn't have to do much in convincing applicants they are a worthwhile place to be. Becoming part of a department isn't like joining a gym, and departments would be ill-advised to treat prospective students as such; such a practice could possibly be misleading and give a prospective student a false sense of connection when they need to let their application speak for itself.

For a pre-admission visit, I would focus on getting a sense of the atmosphere of the department/school in general, and then, not thinking about it *TOO* much, to not as they say "count one's eggs before they've been hatched".

Edited October 21, 2011 by ecritdansleau

[LLajax]

Just thought I'd put my $0.02 in here- I go to the school in question (although not to the English department), and I really would suggest visiting and meeting with professors. Email the graduate coordinator for the department and ask if there are any events (colloquium and such) that you could attend, or graduate students that you could talk to. If you have POIs, email them and see if you could meet with them while you're visiting. It can be really helpful for you to meet them, if only to put a face to your name on your applications. Futhermore, it gives you a chance to ask about their research, or funding, or special things they like about being in the department (which is great information for you personally, and for your SoPs). I'm not in the same department, but I don't think that the professors look down on you for visiting as being cocky about getting in, they realize that it is important for you to get the feel of the school and the department. That being said, they might be very busy this weekend as it is midterm season (this week and next) across campus, just an fyi.