Do you correct people who address you as "Dr."?

[fuzzylogician]

Occasionally I get emails that are addressed to "Dr." fuzzy; almost always, they are not sent by colleagues but rather by people who are professionally associated with academia like publishing-house employees, editors, staff, etc. -- so, not anyone who I have any particular interest in correcting. Usually I just ignore these things, but it doesn't feel quite right. On the other hand, correcting people is also no fun. I sometimes try to add "graduate student, X university" to my signature if I catch the mistake early enough in the correspondence, but that doesn't really solve the gender mistakes and besides I feel funny signing emails like that. So I wonder, what would you do in this situation: would you ignore these mistakes, since these are unimportant correspondences? or would you insist on being addressed properly? If so, how would you go about correcting people?

[emmm]

One of my advisors (a PhD herself) has told me to use "Dr." when writing to ANYONE at a university. So, I'd say don't worry about it. If these people correspond with you for any length of time, they will find out sooner or later how to properly address you. What I find more disconcerting is when I get mail back from people I know have PhDs, and the mail is signed with just their first names. I certainly don't feel comfortable jumping to that level of informality right away, as sometimes I have not even met these people yet.

[Eigen]

I don't correct all of them, but I do correct a few. It really depends if they're someone I'll be corresponding with a lot or not- someone I'm just exchanging a few e-mails with, it doesn't really seem to matter- sales reps, etc. I figure it'll take time to correct them, possibly embarrass them (depending), and they likely won't remember when I e-mail them again in 6 or 8 mos.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Eigen

[runonsentence]

When I worked in publishing and corresponded with authors and editors, I always assumed the highest title, to be on the safe side—that is, a grad student is likely to be offended by being addressed as "prof," and I'd rather not accidentally call a PhD "Ms" or "Mr."

I suppose my advice is the same as emmm and Eigen's. They're probably expecting a small margin of error anyway, in using "Dr." as a blanket statement. It's not really worth it unless you'll be developing a relationship with them.

My favorite correction, which I use when I'm teaching and someone thinks I have my PhD already, is, "I haven't yet shed the blood and tears for that."

[robot_hamster]

Never had this problem. Although I have had students email me addressing me as "Miss". I thought it was kind of cute since it is usually a 1st year undergrad.

[Riem]

What I find more disconcerting is when I get mail back from people I know have PhDs, and the mail is signed with just their first names. I certainly don't feel comfortable jumping to that level of informality right away, as sometimes I have not even met these people yet.

This is very interesting! I consult a lot of professors via e-mail and many end up signing with only their first name. In an exchange of responses, I would still use "Prof. [ ],"rather than "Rob," or "Ken,". It makes me wonder if the professors really want me to address them so informally. Even with my advisor and professors I frequently talk to during office hours or seminars, I address them as "Professor". At what point should a person really switch to such an informality? It's not like one could really ask about such things to the person.

Edited September 9, 2011 by Riem

[cliopatra]

This is very interesting! I consult a lot of professors via e-mail and many end up signing with only their first name. In an exchange of responses, I would still use "Prof. [ ],"rather than "Rob," or "Ken,". It makes me wonder if the professors really want me to address them so informally. Even with my advisor and professors I frequently talk to during office hours or seminars, I address them as "Professor". At what point should a person really switch to such an informality? It's not like one could really ask about such things to the person.

That's something I worry about too. My rule is to always let the person with higher status take the lead when it comes to informality. For example, if you're not sure how to address someone in person or in e-mail, check their signature. Super formal with the titles and position? Stick with Dr./Prof. Did they sign with their full name? I would still use Dr./Prof. Did they sign first name only and the signature doesn't appear? You can call them by their first name. But never be the first to do so. Wait for their lead.

[Sigaba]

Keep in mind that in some fields, such as in academic history in America, there can be a back story that makes calling a professor "Dr." bad form. (A professor snarled at me the last time I made this mistake.)

Edited September 9, 2011 by Sigaba

[bdon19]

This is something I am CONSTANTLY dealing with as an undergrad. Most of my professors sign their e-mails with their initials, so I never know how to address them. Some I would never think of addressing as anything but "Professor X," but others are in a greyer area. I have two professors who I regularly get coffee with, go to bars with, am friends with on Facebook, and have an overall good relationship with. However, I still don't know how to address them in e-mails. I actually had a (somewhat tipsy) conversation with one about this very issue, and she told me she didn't care what I called her, as long as I didn't send e-mails addressed to "Professor" (she will respond with "Hello, Student"). After that, I started using her first name (though it took some getting used to). Thank goodness I had that conversation in the first place, because I would often just not send her e-mails because addressing them stressed me out so much! The other professor still signs his e-mails with his initials. In person, I don't have an issue with what to call him, because students just use his last name, but I would never send him an e-mail like that. So I just do the "Hi, Prof. Y" thing, even if it feels WAY too formal with him.

I think I'll, therefore, be sympathetic once I have to encounter this with students of my own. I don't know WHAT I'd do if I'd had to deal with grad student TAs as an undergrad!

[robot_hamster]

Now that we are talking about actual professors, I find it really strange calling them by their first name. Most professors at my school prefer that the graduate students call them by their first name, but it's still weird sometimes. I went to a very traditional school for my undergrad. You would not dream of calling a professor by their first name. You were to address them as "Dr. _____" or "Professor _____" (depending on their title). If you had a good relationship with them and knew them very well, then you could drop the "Dr." or ""Professor" and call them by their last name only. So obviously it was a bit awkward for me when I started grad school at a more relaxed school.

Edited September 12, 2011 by robot_hamster

[ktel]

What I've noticed in my department is that they are using "Professor" and not "Dr." which is very different from my undergrad. My supervisor always signs his e-mails "Prof Z" which makes it very clear what is expected when I'm addressing him.

[Sigaba]

I have two professors who I regularly get coffee with, go to bars with, am friends with on Facebook, and have an overall good relationship with.

bdon19--

A question from an Old School guy: Is drinking with professors really a good idea, especially for an undergraduate?

[Eigen]

I would say going drinking with undergrads is not a good idea as a professor. I also try to avoid it as a grad student (with exceptions).

Prof's going drinking with grad students, however, is common in my field.Especially at conferences. The bars are where all the real work gets done.

[bdon19]

bdon19--

A question from an Old School guy: Is drinking with professors really a good idea, especially for an undergraduate?

I think it's just part of the culture here. I go to a small school, in the Midwest, with a bar on campus. Professors will often schedule meetings during happy hour with their older students. It's accepted practice here, and nobody seems to have a problem with it. If students aren't comfortable with it, it's fine, but most are. Each department rotates as "guest bartenders" throughout the year, and it ends up a sort of coming-of-age privilege to enjoy that. I wouldn't say it's a "bad idea" (though of course there are exceptions to that). I would totally understand it being inappropriate in a lot of places, though. We just have a very unique sort of culture here in Cheeseville, USA.

[adinutzyc]

I went to a small liberal arts college in NY. I've always addressed professors by their first name/nickname (eg Bill for William). The weird people were people from abroad (I too am from abroad) that absolutely refused to adapt and persisted on calling the person Professor LastName. I found it weird and slightly inappropriate (no, you're not erring on the side of caution, you're just trying to be different, and you're trying too hard!). On the other hand, it might have been a culture thing (though others from the same countries did adapt and embrace change)

Right now, in grad school, I really have no clue how to address people (started school a couple of weeks ago). Some people use first names (I'd feel weird to do so without having been invited to/ with it not being necessarily the norm), others use last names, others use professor lastname etc. I sort of stuck with the just lastname for now, but I just avoid addressing them directly (in emails I use the professor lastname option). All of them ar quite young and friendly, which makes me even more confused. I have to mention though that I come from a country where there are fences in place between students and professors, which has not been my experience here. Which confuses me even more

Ah, and for the being addressed Dr... part, I am eagerly awaiting to be addressed like that I'd say ignore them if they're not important. I find it sad that people arent't able to google people before addressing them. I always check the school website to see if the person I'm addressing is a PhD or not... and a female or not for that matter

Edited September 13, 2011 by adinutzyc

[Sigaba]

It's accepted practice here, and nobody seems to have a problem with it. If students aren't comfortable with it, it's fine, but most are.

@bdon19-- If it works for you it works for you. I would just recommend to any student that drinks with a professor to remember a warning Oprah Winfrey once gave to her audience. To paraphrase, When you go to a social function with your boss and coworkers, you are still at work.

FWIW, I always address professors as Professor This and Professor That (or "sir" and "ma'am") even though they all encourage their graduate students to address them on a first name basis. A long while back, one professor insisted that I call him by his Christian name. I shot him a grin and said "Sir, that's just not my way."

I've even held to this practice with a professor with whom I've developed a close friendship. In our conversations, I'll rant irreverently, swear a blue streak a mile wide, and curse up a storm, but always make clear that he's done something I've not and until I do, I will always treat him with a certain amount of professional deference.

[bdon19]

@bdon19-- If it works for you it works for you. I would just recommend to any student that drinks with a professor to remember a warning Oprah Winfrey once gave to her audience. To paraphrase, When you go to a social function with your boss and coworkers, you are still at work.

FWIW, I always address professors as Professor This and Professor That (or "sir" and "ma'am") even though they all encourage their graduate students to address them on a first name basis. A long while back, one professor insisted that I call him by his Christian name. I shot him a grin and said "Sir, that's just not my way."

Sigaba, I think we must agree to disagree. I know not every place will follow the same principles that my school does, just as I know that not every student will. However, I think we have very different opinions regarding the world of academia. If a professor insists that I use his or her first name, there's no reason why I shouldn't. In the professional world, very rarely do people call their bosses "Mr. So-and-So" anymore, so why should we? Not everyone needs a constant reminder that they have a higher degree than you. In fact, that's why a lot of my professors encourage students to use their first names; they want us to be on an even playing field. Of course they are, at the end of the day, the ones with the degree and with the power to determine our grades, but in the classroom they want to emphasize that our ideas can be just as valuable as theirs, and so they give us the benefit of putting us on that even playing field.

And if my professors and their co-workers are hanging out at the same bar that the students frequent, why shouldn't they interact with us? It's not like we're all going to frat parties together. We're socializing in an adult way. We may be undergrads, but they give us the freedom to show that we are just as responsible as they are. What we choose to do with that freedom is up to us, but most of us do keep it responsible while the professors are around. "Professional deference" is one thing, but refusing to forge personal relationships with professors is totally another, imho.

[Sigaba]

"Professional deference" is one thing, but refusing to forge personal relationships with professors is totally another, imho.

bdon19--

Please show me where I said that I refused to "forge personal relationships with professors."

MOO, undergraduates should not fraternize with professors because the dynamics of power within the Ivory Tower do not work in a student's favor. A professor has much more control over your future than you do over his. This power can be exercised in exquisitely subtle ways--such as the turn of a phrase in a LoR, a well-timed comment during a faculty meeting, or the use of an extra sharp blue pencil when evaluating a graded assignment. While it is within your rights to take that risk, it remains to be seen if you're managing that risk in ways that advance your interests.

[Eigen]

bdon19--

Please show me where I said that I refused to "forge personal relationships with professors."

MOO, undergraduates should not fraternize with professors because the dynamics of power within the Ivory Tower do not work in a student's favor. A professor has much more control over your future than you do over his. This power can be exercised in exquisitely subtle ways--such as the turn of a phrase in a LoR, a well-timed comment during a faculty meeting, or the use of an extra sharp blue pencil when evaluating a graded assignment. While it is within your rights to take that risk, it remains to be seen if you're managing that risk in ways that advance your interests.

Taking it the other way around, it can often be viewed as inappropriate for professors to be seen fraternizing with undergraduates. Forging personal relationships is fine, but they should be on the basis of teacher/student, mentor/mentee, not two people hanging out. Whether or not it's there, the illusion of impropriety on the part of the professor is a huge risk, career wise, and can lead to accusations of favoritism, etc. Not to mention some universities indirectly forbid such contact.

The difference isn't there so much with graduate students, especially once their coursework is done- the grad student and professor should start forming more familial ties, as they are on the road to being colleagues. The power imbalance isn't quite as great.

I did things with my undergrad professors- dinners at their house, etc... But that's not the same as meeting them at a bar and drinking. We're talking about a whole different level of familiarity there.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Eigen

[juilletmercredi]

I found it weird and slightly inappropriate (no, you're not erring on the side of caution, you're just trying to be different, and you're trying too hard!)

It's not inappropriate. I'm from the South and I was raised to call anyone older than me by a formal title - even if they introduced themselves as Jane, I would call them "Miss Jane" or "Dr. Jane" unless they asked me not to. At my Southern college, even the friendliest professors were and are still Dr. Smith or Dr. Jones. It took some time to get used to calling my advisors here by their first names. I'm getting more used it as I live in the Northeast now, and that's considered weird up here.

And as a graduate student who supervises and teaches undergraduates in a variety of settings, I would not even hang out in the same bar as my undergrad students, much less go grab drinks with them. When I'm with a group of hall directors and we see our RAs in a bar, we go look for another one. It's not refusing to forge a personal relationship; there are many many ways I can form a relationship with an undergrad without drinking with them at a bar.

[bdon19]

I understand the reservations a lot of people have with hanging out in bars or drinking with professors. But you have to understand where I'm coming from. As I said before, we have a bar on campus. Last spring, I had a class in the same building that houses the bar (it's in the basement; classrooms and offices are upstairs). The class got out at 4:20, and the bar opened for Happy Hour on Fridays at 4:30. Everyone in our class was over 21, except for one student, who happened to bartend starting at 4:30. So, on Fridays our professor would invite us to come downstairs and grab a drink with him, his wife, and his two young kids. Happy Hour on Fridays is very family-oriented, as our state allows all ages into bars as long as they're accompanied by parents. So, every Friday the bar is filled with professors and their families, who enjoy socializing with students. Nobody's getting wasted, it's just a place to hang out and enjoy bonding. I don't see that being much different than going to a professor's house for dinner.

Additionally, as I mentioned before, each department has an assigned night through the year where they "guest bartend." They encourage their older students to come and join them, and it's seen as a privilege students get to enjoy once they're older and, consequently, have forged deeper relationships with their professors.

Maybe I forgot to mention that my school consists only of undergrads. Maybe that changes the dynamic between professors and undergrads a bit. They treat upperclassmen, essentially, the way grad students are treated at many (perhaps most) universities. I understand that it might be inappropriate at a big school where profs are teaching hundreds of undergrads a semester, but when they have 30 or 40 at most, and everyone's invited to a central place on campus that's just as accessible (for the over-21s, of course) as a coffeeshop, I don't really see the problem. Drinking doesn't have to mean partying. I don't really get why people can't see the difference.

As far as my comment about "refusing to forge a personal relationship" goes, I guess what I meant was referring to Sigaba's refusal to call a professor by his first name, even after the professor "insisted" (s)he do so. While I feel uncomfortable calling a professor by anything but "Prof. X" until they've told me otherwise, if they outright tell me to use their first name, I'd be uncomfortable not using it.

[dimanche0829]

I'm so late in joining this conversation, but I've also been out to bars and restaurants with professors, where alcohol has been served. Then again, I'm 29, so I don't quite fit in with the general undergrad culture.

Nevertheless, I really think it depends on the professor and the student. There are some professors with whom I would feel very uncomfortable with in ANY social setting outside of the classroom...and I'm sure the feeling would be mutual.

But then there are a select few professors who have taken the time to invest in me outside of the classroom and whose company and insight I genuinely value. Having the chance to really intellectually interact one on one, or in some cases within a smaller group, over a nice glass of wine (we're not talking whiskey binge, here) offers the kinds of learning experiences that a classroom simply cannot offer.

Edited September 15, 2011 by dimanche0829

[runonsentence]

Maybe I forgot to mention that my school consists only of undergrads. Maybe that changes the dynamic between professors and undergrads a bit. They treat upperclassmen, essentially, the way grad students are treated at many (perhaps most) universities. I understand that it might be inappropriate at a big school where profs are teaching hundreds of undergrads a semester, but when they have 30 or 40 at most, and everyone's invited to a central place on campus that's just as accessible (for the over-21s, of course) as a coffeeshop, I don't really see the problem. Drinking doesn't have to mean partying. I don't really get why people can't see the difference.

This describes my undergrad institution's culture, as well. We had no grad students, so professor-undergrad relationships were markedly different than what I've seen/observed at big R1 universities.

We didn't have a campus bar so I didn't drink with my professors often as an undergrad, but it happened. It didn't seem at all inappropriate then (nor does it now, looking back). I think it's all about context.

Edited September 15, 2011 by runonsentence