History of Art - MA/PhD 2009

[mm_donuts]

Where are all those IFA people hiding? We're desperate for information! (Well, at least I am)

[phillybuff]

Hey guys, I'm waiting on BU and University of Toronto.

I called Toronto last week and they told me that they had sent out all of their PhD acceptances/rejections, but that since I had applied Direct-Entry PhD, I would still be considered for masters status, and that they would hopefully send letters by the end of the month.

As for BU, according to the CAA catalogue, they technically don't notify till April 1. Only a little nerve-wracking!

[cubbies]

I'm one of the IFA accepted people. Even though there's no funding for the year (there very rarely is anyway, ask anyone who has ever gone there), the travel money is an awesome perk and it's looks like a great program.

Yesterday I got an email that said congratulations, etc with a copy of the letter that they said they put in the mail the day before. No word on how many people were offered admission but it did say that, "The competition has never been higher". Opening it at work caused quite a bit of commotion...

[farthistory]

I'm depressed that I did not get into CUNY - got my meager tiny envelope today. Not sure why - I have a MA, perfect grades, good GRE, met with faculty - they seemed positive... The only thing I can think of is I submitted one week after the Financial Aid deadline, but I didn't even get in at all, even without financial aid. Anyone know how many got in out of how many applicants? I got wait listed for the Visual Studies Program at Rochester, and I got in with funding to SUNY Stony brook, but it was my last choice. Anyone have any thoughts on the reputation of Stony Brook? Still waiting for Columbia, but I seriously doubt I got in. I feel like if I can't even get into to CUNY, there's no way I'll get into Columbia. I just want to know either way with Columbia so I can make a decision. When is Columbia going post decisions!?!?

[amleta]

When is Columbia going post decisions!?!?

I second this opinion. Also impatiently waiting on Harvard, UMich, UDel, and Johns Hopkins. Why yes, I have been twitchy the last 3 weeks, why do you ask? ^_~

[arthist]

IFA MA people: Does anyone know roundabouts how much tuition will cost for 2009-2010?

I went on the Bursar's website but it's confusing because a) There isn't a link for IFA, so I just assumed you look under Graduate School of Arts and Science There are two different numbers floating around for GSAS - $1206/unit and $1600-something/unit. That's quite a difference... any info out there?

[angle_of_repose]

I got in with funding to SUNY Stony brook, but it was my last choice. Anyone have any thoughts on the reputation of Stony Brook?

Hi all - I'm new to the forum. In response to the Stony brook query - I also got in with funding to Stony Brook and am under the impression that it has a very good reputation and is just getting better. That said, I'm still undecided as I have one other acceptance and am waiting on a few other schools...

[farthistory]

Hi all - I'm new to the forum. In response to the Stony brook query - I also got in with funding to Stony Brook and am under the impression that it has a very good reputation and is just getting better. That said, I'm still undecided as I have one other acceptance and am waiting on a few other schools...

Where else did you apply? Just curious! I wonder how many acceptances Stony Brook gave out of how many applicants.

[farthistory]

I second this opinion. Also impatiently waiting on Harvard, UMich, UDel, and Johns Hopkins. Why yes, I have been twitchy the last 3 weeks, why do you ask? ^_~

Don't you kind of feel like if Columbia hasn't contact us yet, it's a rejection? I feel like they would have already called/ emailed acceptees in late Feb., and now they're just bureaucratically organizing the mass mailing of rejects. I'm not at all informed on this matter, just speaking from neurotic intuition... anyone who is knowledgeable on this - and/ or who already got in out there? what do you think?

[amleta]

Don't you kind of feel like if Columbia hasn't contact us yet, it's a rejection? I feel like they would have already called/ emailed acceptees in late Feb., and now they're just bureaucratically organizing the mass mailing of rejects. I'm not at all informed on this matter, just speaking from neurotic intuition... anyone who is knowledgeable on this - and/ or who already got in out there? what do you think?

It does definitely feel like that. On the other hand, I've had some contact with a professor there, so I have some reason to hope, but the later it gets, the worse it feels. Said professor implied that they'd made their decisions regarding first choice students, but were still negotiating their second choices, so to speak. My personal theory is that Columbia is simply micromanaging the entire situation

[georgica1]

Don't you kind of feel like if Columbia hasn't contact us yet, it's a rejection? I feel like they would have already called/ emailed acceptees in late Feb., and now they're just bureaucratically organizing the mass mailing of rejects. I'm not at all informed on this matter, just speaking from neurotic intuition... anyone who is knowledgeable on this - and/ or who already got in out there? what do you think?

I've been assuming as much. With that said, the phone acceptances were all posted a few weeks ago, so I'm starting to think that maybe they're still deciding about the waitlist, etc. Also, it's possible that they're considering moving some applications to the terminal MA programs. I find it somewhat hard to imagine that they've just been sitting on a pile of rejections for weeks without bothering to notify, but I guess anything is possible at this point. I never thought I'd look back fondly at the undergrad application/admissions process.

[farthistory]

Has anyone gotten rejection letters from Columbia yet?

[londonWill]

I've been assuming as much. With that said, the phone acceptances were all posted a few weeks ago, so I'm starting to think that maybe they're still deciding about the waitlist, etc. Also, it's possible that they're considering moving some applications to the terminal MA programs. I find it somewhat hard to imagine that they've just been sitting on a pile of rejections for weeks without bothering to notify, but I guess anything is possible at this point. I never thought I'd look back fondly at the undergrad application/admissions process.

Has anyone else applied for the MA in Modern Art at Columbia? I spoke to the department secretary (at the end of February) who said the MA applications weren't reviewed until the PhDs were confirmed, so I'm guessing it will be a while before we hear anything (mid-April?). Coming from the UK I was a bit daunted by the prospect of a seven year PhD and felt I wasn't quite ready, although I'm somewhat regretting not applying now. Also, does anyone know how common it is for rejected modern/contemp. PhD applicants to be reconsidered for the MA, as it obviously makes for even stiffer competition. One thing I've also noticed, despite what admissions offices say, is the number of PhD applicants who've gained MAs first to improve their chances of admission. In London, especially at the Courtauld, about a third of MA students are from the States; they come over after a liberal arts BA, get a masters in one year, and subsequently apply to American PhD programs with a much better chance of admission. Maybe I'm just imagining this...any thoughts?

[purplepepper]

One thing I've also noticed, despite what admissions offices say, is the number of PhD applicants who've gained MAs first to improve their chances of admission. In London, especially at the Courtauld, about a third of MA students are from the States; they come over after a liberal arts BA, get a masters in one year, and subsequently apply to American PhD programs with a much better chance of admission. Maybe I'm just imagining this...any thoughts?

Yes, I think this is absolutely true. I was told by one of the schools that I was accepted to was that one of the reasons my application was strong was because of my MA. I too did the one year MA in the UK, not at Courtauld though, and I absolutely loved it--it was such a great experience. There are many reasons why I chose not to pursue the PhD in the Uk though, for instance I felt that I hadn't reached the maturity to go straight into dissertation work, plus of course it's bleeping expensive. When I was in London one tube ride was 2pounds, and last time I went back it was up to 4...totally ridiculous! Plus, I think in general, there is more mentoring and guidance at an American Phd.

[amleta]

Yes, I think this is absolutely true. I was told by one of the schools that I was accepted to was that one of the reasons my application was strong was because of my MA. I too did the one year MA in the UK, not at Courtauld though, and I absolutely loved it--it was such a great experience. There are many reasons why I chose not to pursue the PhD in the Uk though, for instance I felt that I hadn't reached the maturity to go straight into dissertation work, plus of course it's bleeping expensive. When I was in London one tube ride was 2pounds, and last time I went back it was up to 4...totally ridiculous! Plus, I think in general, there is more mentoring and guidance at an American Phd.

Same here. Would have loved to stay on and do my PhD, but alas, I am broke. My application results don't demonstrate this, but my application was much stronger for having my MA already - even an MA in a different discipline (Medieval Studies) - never mind the connections I gained.

[fullofpink]

I have two questions, and if everyone would be cooperative, that would seriously be fantastic!

1) In your signature area would you mind putting your area of concentration, and what type of degree you are applying for (or if you already in your program place that in there)? You can be as specific, or non-specific, as you like. From what I've gathered most people here are applying for a Phd, and many of you are in Modern/Contemporary and/or Asian. I could be completely wrong, there are 16 pages here. That would seriously be awesome! That way, when we you say "I got accepted into school A, B, C!" it just allows us to know immediately what for!

2). For everyone who was accepted (with or without funding, I'm not sure if most know yet) into an Ivy league program, would you mind posting your GRE scores? If it's too invasive, I completely understand. I'm just trying to see at what level they are expecting . Thank you!!

[georgica1]

Has anyone else applied for the MA in Modern Art at Columbia? I spoke to the department secretary (at the end of February) who said the MA applications weren't reviewed until the PhDs were confirmed, so I'm guessing it will be a while before we hear anything (mid-April?). Coming from the UK I was a bit daunted by the prospect of a seven year PhD and felt I wasn't quite ready, although I'm somewhat regretting not applying now. Also, does anyone know how common it is for rejected modern/contemp. PhD applicants to be reconsidered for the MA, as it obviously makes for even stiffer competition. One thing I've also noticed, despite what admissions offices say, is the number of PhD applicants who've gained MAs first to improve their chances of admission. In London, especially at the Courtauld, about a third of MA students are from the States; they come over after a liberal arts BA, get a masters in one year, and subsequently apply to American PhD programs with a much better chance of admission. Maybe I'm just imagining this...any thoughts?

I'm not entirely sure if Columbia considers PhD applicants for the terminal MA in Art History, but according to postings on the results page, other Columbia departments have, so it's a possibility. With that said, even though it might technically make competition for the MAs stiffer, I'm guessing that a lot of people who applied to the PhD would turn down an offer to be moved to the MA pile (have an MA already, don't want to go to an unfunded program, etc.) so I don't necessarily think it would make a huge difference. I also think that you're probably right about MAs boosting your chances of admission, particularly if it's an MA from a prestigious program like Courtauld, not necessarily because an MA automatically makes you more qualified, but because applicants with MAs probably have a better sense of what they want to work on/more research experience/better writing sample. I'm definitely regretting not applying to a few MA programs as a backup.

[kid_grape]

for those of you who have mentioned that you did a master's program before applying for your phd, how do you feel it helped you academically? also, was your program one year or two? if it was only one, so you feel it still made a significant impact? i am currently thinking of pursuing the same course of action, and wondering what some of the benefits are, and would love to hear your thoughts.

thanks

[amleta]

for those of you who have mentioned that you did a master's program before applying for your phd, how do you feel it helped you academically? also, was your program one year or two? if it was only one, so you feel it still made a significant impact? i am currently thinking of pursuing the same course of action, and wondering what some of the benefits are, and would love to hear your thoughts.

thanks

I did a single year MA in the UK. My reasons for doing so were shallow: only one year vs two in the US (and thus cheaper); another chance to live abroad; I didn't have to take the GREs; and a higher chance of being accepted (was accepted to 7 of the 8 programmes I applied for). Despite my reasoning, it ended up being a brilliant decision. Academically, I learned what it was really like to be challenged, because I was very much out of my comfort zone. The professors had entirely different expectations, so I relearned how to write, how to read, and how to critically address the issues I was learning about. My writing drastically improved, and I became a much better student and scholar. Half the programme was taught, and half was dissertation, so I got a crash course in independent work and research. Further, my PhD research (I hope) will continue my MA research - so I wouldn't have that at all had I not done my MA.

Beyond academics, the programme completely changed my outlook and perspective. I thought I was hot shit going into the programme (from undergrad at a prestigious SLAC, consistent praise of my writing, and a ton of research experience); imagine my surprise when my first grad paper was harshly critiqued! Most relevantly to this forum, however, I really got my thoughts in order about what I wanted to do and why, and how the academic system works. Had I applied for a PhD programme straight out of undergrad, I would have flopped spectacularly. I had no idea what 'research interests' were, never mind my own; I didn't know the risks involved in pursuing an academic career (what? not everyone becomes a tenured prof?); I didn't understand how my debt would affect my post-degree life; and I was so overly impressed with my own brilliance and my wonderful 'talents' that I would have been laughed right out of any application committee.

Because I won't now, of course. Ha. *sarcasm*

Anyway, my identity as a student and scholar before my MA and after are completely different things. These are really only a few of the things which it helped me to accomplish. I wouldn't trade it for the world, and I don't think my academic career could risk that loss, either. Because while I'm no amazing scholar now, I'm miles better than I was before. (Ack. I feel like sending apology emails to my undergrad profs.)

[purplepepper]

I actually agree completely with amelta. I did my year in the UK too for superficial reasons--no GRE, and I as I lived in france for a bit as an undergrad, I was desperate to get back to Europe. But it was a brillant idea for all, almost exactly all of the reasons amelta mentioned. I grew as a scholar, learned about my own interests, learned how to network, and I too had to reteach myself how to read, how to think, how to do independent research, and how to find my own resources. and marks for UK MAs are definitely NOT inflated. I worked damn hard without knowing what my profs expected of me, and was critized a whole lot, but it made me a much better scholar. (and i think American unversities are aware of this)

I too would have flopped spectacularly if I had applied to phd programs straight out of undergrad.

The only drawback to a one year program is that if you want to apply for the next year to a phd program, whichI do not recommend by the way, you have to start the application process just as soon as the year starts. You wont know the profs and thus they wont be able to write good recs (you are expceted to have a rec from your MA adviser at least), and you won't be able to submit your MA thesis/dissertaion as a writing sample which is a bit of a drawback. With that being said, UK MAs are usually a full 12 months, and you are sure to find some kind of opportunity that lets you work or gain experience while focusing on your applications.

Yes, one year did make a significant impact.

To the poster asking about GRE scores, I dont mind sharing mine. They wern't bad, wern't spectacular

660V 680Q 5.0A and I got into some very very top programs. (including the ivies) I promise you, GREs and even grades don't make your application by any stretch of the imagination. Recommendations are extremely extremely important along with your statement. If those aren't strong, they can sink any application with perfect scores.

[londonWill]

I did a single year MA in the UK. My reasons for doing so were shallow: only one year vs two in the US (and thus cheaper); another chance to live abroad; I didn't have to take the GREs; and a higher chance of being accepted (was accepted to 7 of the 8 programmes I applied for). Despite my reasoning, it ended up being a brilliant decision. Academically, I learned what it was really like to be challenged, because I was very much out of my comfort zone. The professors had entirely different expectations, so I relearned how to write, how to read, and how to critically address the issues I was learning about. My writing drastically improved, and I became a much better student and scholar. Half the programme was taught, and half was dissertation, so I got a crash course in independent work and research. Further, my PhD research (I hope) will continue my MA research - so I wouldn't have that at all had I not done my MA.

Thanks for all the responses to this thread; I definitely agree on the merits of getting an MA first, especially one from the UK. I think it's a shame that a lot of American programs are getting rid of (or rather assimilating) seperate masters (how many still offer them: Columbia, Penn, IFA?) I think it offers an important bridge for students; a kind of rapid immersion into graduate study that can help with the transition from undergraduate level work. The UK masters degree almost resembles an accelerated version of the graduate experience in which you go from coursework to independent research and finally, one-on-one supervision with a dissertation advisor in the space of one year. My problem is that I wish I was doing it the other way round. While London is great (the Courtauld, UCL and SOAS make for a very dynamic art history 'scene') if you did your undergraduate degree there, as I did, it's perhaps not as exciting or fulfilling to go back to for an MA.

Having said that, it's a lot more affordable for British and European citizens (who get their tuition subsidized and are also elligible for quite generous government funding and grants for both masters and PhD). And of course MAs in the states are generally unfunded as well...difficult decisions! I agree with mims3382 about the timing issue too, as it seems like it wouldn't be feasible to start a one year program this year and subsequently apply for a PhD the following year. Lastly, how do people perceive American MA programs (Columbia, for instance)? Is there an attitude that if you're really serious about academia you'll go straight into a PhD, whereas 'terminal' MAs are exactly that: finishing degrees for those going into arts careers/curating etc.?

[kid_grape]

thank you guys for such great answers! it really does help put things into perspective. and i'm definitely reconsidering holding off on applying until i'm done with the masters. it does make sense that if the whole point is to improve academically, i'd have to go through the year to get some writing done and build those relationships with professors. i had thought of doing an MA then perhaps applying for the whitney isp (ps. does anyone know about THAT program? could not find any info on it anywhere except the tiny bit on the official website) to do some more independent research, but wasn't sure if i should hold out EVEN longer to apply for my phd. but after reading your replies, it seems like a reasonable option.

as for how american institutions view MAs... i can't honestly say i know for sure. but my inclination is to think that schools are probably glad that you spent the year trying to become more knowledgeable in the field and acclimate yourself to academia, rather than sitting on your butt and doing nothing until you decide to apply for a phd. not everybody applies/gets in right out from undergrad, so i imagine at the very least it can't hurt to show that you've tried and are now more familiar with what you want, and still have the desire to continue your education in that field.

thanks again for the wonderful insight! it was so helpful. and i'm definitely feeling reassured about going this route after being rejected from all those phd programs lol.

[void]

So I have a few questions for those of you with acceptances. How are you making your decisions? Is it mainly program fit, prestige, funding, or other reasons? I have been accepted to a few PhD programs, but probably my largest concern is the prospect of finding jobs at the other end, especially since none of my acceptances are from Ivys. Has anyone found a reliable Art History PhD program ranking? And do you think it is rude to email the programs asking for percentages of graduates in tenure track positions and/or curatorial work and how long it took them to get there? Is anyone else in this position and how are you dealing with this?

[ElusiveMuse]

Void, they should give you that information without any problem. After all, they want you to accept their offer. It is not an unreasonable question. I mostly rely on the opinions of various trusted faculty members as to the reputation of these programs for finding graduates a job, but one university gave me that information in a packet.

[venusfueri]

So I caved and emailed the grad director at BU and got a response within 24 hours.

Rejected from BU. Dammit. It was really dissapointing, since the professor who would be my advisor told me to my face that I would be a "perfect fit" and "enjoyed" reading my writing sample. I applied last year for various PHD progs and really do not know if I can emotionally do this anymore - and I have been on the fence even during the application process. I am still waiting to hear from Columbia (that annoying black monolith) but that is for a different department.