Professors declining to work with me as a PhD adviser

[253805]

I am currently a 2nd year PhD student, at the end of last year my adviser had a meeting and told me I was not progressing as he had hoped and suggested I leave the program, but that I could stay, as it is there hope that a student would improve. He ominously said though that if I did stay I would have a difficulty finding other professors to work with me on a dissertation or as an adviser. I asked him at the time if I need to find a new adviser and he said no, but as I would find out in the Fall that was not true. I have passed all my classes and am not in danger as far as grades go, I believe this had to do with me not being a TA or GA, and he had been harsh on some papers I turned in during his classes. I had a really hard personal year in which I had to drive home (3.5 hrs away) every week to help out my family so my work could have been hindered but it wasn't enough so for professors to give me anything but A's and B+s. He was not sympathetic to my families tragedy and when I showed up in the fall he told me I needed to find an adviser, which I have asked the only five professors in my field in the program all have declined, either stating they have too many graduate students or don't have the same research interest (which is dubious because after the 2nd decline I was making my research to fit their specialties). I am on pace to finish all of my course work this spring but without an adviser I will not be able to work on my dissertation. My question is, is it heard of for an entire department to block a student out and prevent him from completing their degree?

Can a University accept $26,000 from a student who is paying for the service of being trained in their chosen profession and then refuse to provide that service? Do I have any rights here, anywhere I can go to fight for my right to have an adviser, someone who is already accepting paychecks based of my tuition and other students like me? I politely brought this dilemma up to the dean of the History department, stating oh I am having some difficulty finding an adviser, so far professors are telling me they have too many graduate students, do you have any advise for me, he stated it is a long standing practice that professors get to choose who they do or don't work with and it is on me to find an adviser, and that leaving the program is always an option. I feel that after this much time and money I should not be forced to do that, and I am passionate about getting my PhD. I don't think I should be penalized because one professor decided he did not like me and I was hit with an unexpected tragedy in my life that may have taken some time away from my school work. Could I go to the President of the University? or anyone above the dean of my program? Do I have a legal case, or do you think someone eventually will work with me if I am persistent and continue to come up with new research ideas to fit their interests?

[Eigen]

I feel for your situation, but no one is doing anything legally wrong, or probably not even against university guidelines.

Professors have the right to choose who they want to work with, and it's not uncommon for graduate students to have to leave a program due to not being able to find an advisor. It sucks when it happens, but it does happen.

You might be able to transfer to another program- or leave your current program and apply elsewhere.

[qbtacoma]

Wait, you are paying for your own degree yourself? You didn't get any funding? To put it bluntly: why did you think it was a good idea to spend your own money on a Ph.D in history? Even if you are, though, a degree isn't like a television or some other object you buy: you don't "deserve" anything just because you paid for the experience of being trained as an academic. Just because the experience may not be what you want doesn't mean they don't deserve to be paid for the effort and time to train you. Imagine not paying a doctor because you have bad health - that doesn't work, right?

I think you are right to suspect the department is shutting you out collectively. It probably doesn't have anything to do with your work; such unified action on their part speaks to a situation where something about you yourself makes them all not want to work with you. Especially after that not-so-subtle hint from the dean that you should probably leave. It can't be a professional thing (i.e. plagiarism, unprofessional behavior) or an aspect of your ability (i.e. grades, research) because they would have openly stated if that were the case.

I am not hopeful after reading your account. The bridges may be already burnt. Maybe you should sit down with some close friends or fellow grad students and have them tell you if you have any shortcomings which make it difficult to work with you. It may be as simple as you are the political black sheep in the department and they don't want to hear your opinion, but it may also be intolerable personal traits which make it difficult to advise you: you don't listen to critiques, for example, or you are arrogant, etc. We can't know here on the internet, but your friends probably know, and probably have substantive suggestions for altering your behavior.

[remenis]

Wait, you are paying for your own degree yourself? You didn't get any funding? To put it bluntly: why did you think it was a good idea to spend your own money on a Ph.D in history?

I hate to bring up more bad news, but the fact that you did not receive funding from the department (if that is in fact the case) should have been a huge red flag to you when you first applied. Unfortunately many times, an offer which includes no funding is a sign that the department is not really that interested in working with you and that you will face problems finishing your degree there. I've heard that some departments accept students without funding into their PhD programs and then refuse to pass those students on to the dissertation stage.

The fact is that while this practice is very hurtful, they are not doing anything illegal and that going over their heads is probably not going to help you. Talking to the president of your university is very unlikely to help your situation.

I think that qbtacoma brings up a good idea about talking to your friends and fellow students. I also think you should strongly consider leaving this program and trying to transfer to a new one. Even if you manage to get one of these professors to supervise your dissertation, if they don't fully support you, you're going to have a hard time as an academic. Your dissertation advisor is often supposed to be instrumental in helping you get a job, so if you work with someone who doesn't like you - you're going to have a hard time getting a job.

Based on your description of what has happened, you should probably leave this department. If you are dead-set on getting you PhD and want to transfer, you should probably talk to your professors about whether or not they would support that decision, and if they would write you letters of recommendation.

[TMP]

Yikes. You are definitely in a lose-lose situation. If you paid your way into a PhD program, chances are that professors aren't going to be very responsive to your needs (in other words you appear more of a customer than a colleague). If PhD students in your department do actually TA/RA in their first year, then that makes stick out like a sore thumb. "Passing courses" is not enough. You need to be doing other things like summer research, languages, TA-ing, or whatever else to add to your CV.

If you can't secure a TA position for spring semester, then get out of the program and take time off to think about this. Re-apply for Fall 2013 if this is what you really, really want to do... providing that your professors (at least 2) are willing to write positive letters and that you will promise not to pay for a PhD, ever.

[diplodocus]

Hey guys,

I’m a longtime lurker, but this was something I thought would be good to respond to. The responses to 253805 fall well below the collegial nature that has been expressed on this board, so I thought I would try a different approach.

Dear 253805. I am very sorry to hear that you have a difficult family situation, and I hope things are going well and that they get better. As much as academia likes to think their research is the most important thing, I’ve found my family and friendships to be the much more rewarding than any “innovative” research I have done.

So here is my advice, which may or not be helpful.

1. Do not take no for an answer. I think some of the responders believe that they would never end up in a situation like this. The problem is, there are often issues that come up, and even if we are stellar students, we can run into trouble. The main thing is to remain calm, and don’t say or write anything that you will regret later. But keep trying to figure this out. I had an issue earlier this year, and I thought there was no solution. Thankfully I had a great mentor professor who helped me figure all the bureaucratic machinations out. Can you talk to the department chair, graduate studies office, or someone higher up? Be persistent, but also be patient and calm.
   

1. Talk to a trusted professor in the field. While it seems your current department is being less than helpful, do you have anyone at your undergraduate institution that you could trust telling your story to? They can provide insight and support that your fellow students in your program and here on the grad board can’t.
   

1. Avoid legal action at all costs, but find out your legal options. I think legal action is the last resort, and in most cases, not even something you want to consider. Even if it is the last resort, it is likely not the best option. You would ruin your relationship with the professors and would likely scare off future schools from taking you on. That being said, it might be helpful to know about your legal options. That way you can go in informed. In law, there two similar concepts called reliance and promissory estoppel, which means that if someone has said we have this deal, and then you act on that assurance, and if your action is reasonable, but they don’t hold to the end of their bargain, then you might have a case.
   

Despite all the legal answers from history grad students, I doubt this is the best place to look for legal advice.There are often free legal clinics where you can get advice from local attorneys.The state courts website often has a list of clinics by city. Even if they say they are set up for a specific area of law, usually the person handling the questions can give you some idea of where you stand. Once again, I don’t think suing is an option you want to take.Would you really want to work with a professor who you forced to advise you because of a lawsuit?That just doesn’t seem like a good idea.But because you are paying for your tuition, and if you somehow can’t transfer to another school or get an advisor, maybe this would be a last resort to get your money back.I’m not a lawyer, so I wouldn’t know.

Good luck with everything. I know that times like this can be lonely, so I hope that it works out for the best. Just remember to keep your cool and to be kind. You don’t want to burn bridges.

I better get off to class.

[253805]

Thank you for your replies, I did not receive funding when I came in because I was granted admission on a provisional level until I finished my Master's thesis which I completed during my first quarter of my PhD. I have suspected that this was the end for me just wanted to make sure I was not paranoid, I have two more professors I have not gone to yet, I will try them and if they say no, that could be it I guess.

[253805]

Had just one more question, when I asked my Dean about the situation, I had included in my question if I should consider leaving the program, and part of his response was that, this was an option but he also suggested I could apply for a terminal M.A., what exactly is that (as in if I take that, will future employers know something negative has happened since I have a terminal M.A. and another M.A.) and does it seem likely the main professor who originally declined to be my adviser would sign off on giving me an MA?

[Eigen]

Hey guys,

I’m a longtime lurker, but this was something I thought would be good to respond to. The responses to 253805 fall well below the collegial nature that has been expressed on this board, so I thought I would try a different approach.

Dear 253805. I am very sorry to hear that you have a difficult family situation, and I hope things are going well and that they get better. As much as academia likes to think their research is the most important thing, I’ve found my family and friendships to be the much more rewarding than any “innovative” research I have done.

So here is my advice, which may or not be helpful.

1. Do not take no for an answer. I think some of the responders believe that they would never end up in a situation like this. The problem is, there are often issues that come up, and even if we are stellar students, we can run into trouble. The main thing is to remain calm, and don’t say or write anything that you will regret later. But keep trying to figure this out. I had an issue earlier this year, and I thought there was no solution. Thankfully I had a great mentor professor who helped me figure all the bureaucratic machinations out. Can you talk to the department chair, graduate studies office, or someone higher up? Be persistent, but also be patient and calm.
   

1. Talk to a trusted professor in the field. While it seems your current department is being less than helpful, do you have anyone at your undergraduate institution that you could trust telling your story to? They can provide insight and support that your fellow students in your program and here on the grad board can’t.
   

1. Avoid legal action at all costs, but find out your legal options. I think legal action is the last resort, and in most cases, not even something you want to consider. Even if it is the last resort, it is likely not the best option. You would ruin your relationship with the professors and would likely scare off future schools from taking you on. That being said, it might be helpful to know about your legal options. That way you can go in informed. In law, there two similar concepts called reliance and promissory estoppel, which means that if someone has said we have this deal, and then you act on that assurance, and if your action is reasonable, but they don’t hold to the end of their bargain, then you might have a case.
   

Despite all the legal answers from history grad students, I doubt this is the best place to look for legal advice.There are often free legal clinics where you can get advice from local attorneys.The state courts website often has a list of clinics by city. Even if they say they are set up for a specific area of law, usually the person handling the questions can give you some idea of where you stand. Once again, I don’t think suing is an option you want to take.Would you really want to work with a professor who you forced to advise you because of a lawsuit?That just doesn’t seem like a good idea.But because you are paying for your tuition, and if you somehow can’t transfer to another school or get an advisor, maybe this would be a last resort to get your money back.I’m not a lawyer, so I wouldn’t know.

Good luck with everything. I know that times like this can be lonely, so I hope that it works out for the best. Just remember to keep your cool and to be kind. You don’t want to burn bridges.

I better get off to class.

I get where you're coming from with this, but I'm going to have to disagree with most of it.

Off the bat, I think we were all quite collegial- we all agreed the situation sucked, but we didn't honestly think there was much he could do about it. Collegial doesn't always just mean telling someone what they want to hear.

As for the rest- I think pushing and being persistent can in some instances be a good thing- but in the situation the OP has described, I think it will do more to hurt his future than help. If the department really wants him gone, then I think pushing to stay around will lead to years of discomfort- not to mention no guarantee that they'd actually accept his dissertation once he was done.

Talking to a trusted professor in the field is a good idea.

As to finding out your legal options- I think you'll spend more time chasing this around without getting any real answers than is worthwhile. And since actually pursuing any legal action would probably severely limit your chances of admission to any other schools, I'm not sure that it would be a great idea.

As for the terminal MA: They're usually not a great sign on your transcript. I think you'd in many ways be better off leaving, and re-applying- explain that there were personality conflicts at your old school, but have examples of your work ready to show, to indicate that you were well capable of the work, you just had interaction issues with some of the faculty. In addition, you already have an MA, so it's not a degree you really "need". As to whether your old advisor would sign off on it- if the Dean suggested it, he probably would. I'm not sure he'd make it a particularly pleasant experience, though.

I think you just got stuck in a bad situation- there's a chance the faculty viewed you as a "provisional" student from the start, and never really got over it. I'm not sure if there's anything you can do about that, other than try for a fresh start elsewhere.

[remenis]

Had just one more question, when I asked my Dean about the situation, I had included in my question if I should consider leaving the program, and part of his response was that, this was an option but he also suggested I could apply for a terminal M.A., what exactly is that (as in if I take that, will future employers know something negative has happened since I have a terminal M.A. and another M.A.) and does it seem likely the main professor who originally declined to be my adviser would sign off on giving me an MA?

Usually no employers outside of academia would notice if you took a terminal masters instead of completing a PhD - employers in the business world often don't know the difference and won't bother to look it up - but if it would mean you would end up with two separate Masters degrees both in history that might seem a little bit unusual mainly because there's not many (if any?) situations where two masters degrees in the same field are necessary, but even then I don't think it would really hurt you.

[diplodocus]

I get where you're coming from with this, but I'm going to have to disagree with most of it.

Off the bat, I think we were all quite collegial- we all agreed the situation sucked, but we didn't honestly think there was much he could do about it. Collegial doesn't always just mean telling someone what they want to hear.

As for the rest- I think pushing and being persistent can in some instances be a good thing- but in the situation the OP has described, I think it will do more to hurt his future than help. If the department really wants him gone, then I think pushing to stay around will lead to years of discomfort- not to mention no guarantee that they'd actually accept his dissertation once he was done.

Talking to a trusted professor in the field is a good idea.

As to finding out your legal options- I think you'll spend more time chasing this around without getting any real answers than is worthwhile. And since actually pursuing any legal action would probably severely limit your chances of admission to any other schools, I'm not sure that it would be a great idea.

As for the terminal MA: They're usually not a great sign on your transcript. I think you'd in many ways be better off leaving, and re-applying- explain that there were personality conflicts at your old school, but have examples of your work ready to show, to indicate that you were well capable of the work, you just had interaction issues with some of the faculty. In addition, you already have an MA, so it's not a degree you really "need". As to whether your old advisor would sign off on it- if the Dean suggested it, he probably would. I'm not sure he'd make it a particularly pleasant experience, though.

I think you just got stuck in a bad situation- there's a chance the faculty viewed you as a "provisional" student from the start, and never really got over it. I'm not sure if there's anything you can do about that, other than try for a fresh start elsewhere.

Hey Eigen, thanks for the response. I just wanted to make sure 253805 we felt for their situation. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun at all, nor does it look like it's their fault.

As far as terminal MA is concerned, that might be the best option. I don't know if employers would know the difference, but I also don't know how marketable a History MA is in the first place. (Or a PhD for that matter). But if the professors end up not being that helpful in helping you transfer, it might be the best option. The question you might want to ask yourself is how likely you are to get a job if you were somehow able to continue with your current program? Would these professors be that helpful in the job search if you were somehow able to figure out how to stay on? Especially if you are paying for your program, it might be better to cut your losses and run.

Good luck with those two professors; I hope for your sake things work out in a way that's best for you.

I think this is a good reminder for all of us when choosing school to keep in mind how supportive our potential advisor is. Is this someone who can help you if things get rough? I had some very weird things go down with my current program, and it was invaluable to have some allies by my side.

Anyway, best of luck.

[Eigen]

Hey Eigen, thanks for the response. I just wanted to make sure 253805 we felt for their situation. It doesn't sound like a lot of fun at all, nor does it look like it's their fault.

Understandable. The situation is pretty rough.

253805: What do you want to do with your degree? That will really make a difference in relation to the terminal MA.

If you plan on trying to transfer to another university/reapply, the terminal MA might raise flags; but as others have said if you want to try to get a job, most employers won't recognize the terminal degree. Was your first MA in history as well?

[TMP]

I think the terminal MA is a better option than leaving the program before finishing. Unless, I'm thinking aloud here, those two professore will be kind enough to support your claim in their LORs should you be able to say that you had to leave the program due to family situation.

Professors may raise eyebrows but if you can give very good reasons why you took that route, they'll take it for what it's worth. Usually the best examples are poor faculty fit or adviser leaving. I would definitely consult someone in the field about this terminal MA option vs. leaving now.

If you leave the program without either of those, I think the situation will look very negative for future PhD applications. Definitely investigate your options and find one that will be the least damaging to your career.

Employers don't care. They're already impressed enough that you did graduate school at all. Just don't say "I left a PhD program." Say "it was a terminal MA program."

[runonsentence]

What a rough situation. I know it must be emotionally exhausting. But unfortunately, I think that the above posters are right in saying that it sounds like a lost cause because of several red flags. Even if you do stay, consider that you'll need more than an adviser to get past your candidacy exams and your dissertation. This may be the department recognizing now that they don't feel confident in passing your on your exams or your dissertation and trying to shuffle you out before you get that far. (Or maybe it's all political; it's hard for us to know.)

but he also suggested I could apply for a terminal M.A., what exactly is that (as in if I take that, will future employers know something negative has happened since I have a terminal M.A. and another M.A.) and does it seem likely the main professor who originally declined to be my adviser would sign off on giving me an MA?

I'm not sure if these questions have been directly addressed yet (or I apologize if they were and I missed that): basically, the terminal M.A. means that they're willing to give you a consolation prize for leaving the program early. Since most master's degrees in the humanities are comprised of two years' coursework, the DGS may be willing to decide to recognize your PhD coursework as having fulfilled the requirements for an M.A.

To hazard a guess on your second question, yes I would think so. Because accepting a terminal M.A. would mean leaving the program and also disassociating your name with their PhD program (sorry to say, I know that sounds harsh), I don't personally think you'd find a lot of resistance if you asked for it. The person to approach on the terminal M.A. front, though, is probably the DGS, not your adviser. Unless your department is structured very differently from mine.

Edited October 6, 2011 by runonsentence

[StrangeLight]

<p>a B+ in a graduate course is an indication that you are NOT performing well in the course. it is a strong warning that you are not pulling your weight. any class where you received a B+ you should consider the equivalent of a failed grade (or close to it).</p>

<p> </p>

<p>if you're paying for your degree, but other students are on fellowships, TAships, and RAships, this is a sign that the program already didn't feel strongly about you as a student. the fact that they then gave you B+s is simply reinforcing that.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>i'd suggest finding alternative employment for the spring rather than trying to convince professors to advise you. they've sent you the message that they're not interested. take some time off, reevaluate, and then consider applying to PhD programs in the future and ONLY take an offer of admission if it comes with full funding. i'm sorry to hear that you've already lost your money on this degree.</p>

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[253805]

Understandable. The situation is pretty rough.

253805: What do you want to do with your degree? That will really make a difference in relation to the terminal MA.

If you plan on trying to transfer to another university/reapply, the terminal MA might raise flags; but as others have said if you want to try to get a job, most employers won't recognize the terminal degree. Was your first MA in history as well?

the plan for the past 7 years was to go on and teach at the University level, I understand how hard it is these days to get on a tenure track but I would have been happy teaching in any position at that level, I find it to be really rewarding to work with college students, but I suppose that is over now. I don't know that I will look for another PhD program, I am not exactly in a top 25 program as is now, and another 2 years of course work is too much at this time. I guess I will just have to shape my CV up to apply as a High School teacher now. I heard some graduates with a Master's are having some luck finding Community College jobs especially in California but I imagine that is pretty competitive now as well, and with not LOR from here, that isn't likely.

@Latte Macchiato I understand what a B+ at this level means, I have only received that grade in 1 course, I was more talking about individual papers, which I have received a few and always improved after, typically that was on a first draft.

I understand what a lose - lose situation I am in, just sucks that any educators would do this to students who are only trying to pursue their goals, I hope this isn't something that happens to many people because it is just awful, and I personally believe a bit unethical. Thanks for all your suggestions, I will re-evaluate myself, and still try the last 2 professors but odds are I will begin looking for High School teaching positions for next year.

[runonsentence]

Honestly, if you're happy with any kind of job at the college level, you might have luck finding adjunct work. (In my field at least, it's common for adjuncts to only have an MA.) And possibly community college work, it can't hurt to look.

Perhaps tutoring college students is also something you could pursue? I have many colleagues who actually find tutoring in the writing center even more rewarding than teaching in the classroom.

Anyway, throwing some ideas out there in the hopes that you feel less discouraged about a career in higher ed. Good luck.

[Sigaba]

I think you are right to suspect the department is shutting you out collectively. It probably doesn't have anything to do with your work; such unified action on their part speaks to a situation where something about you yourself makes them all not want to work with you. Especially after that not-so-subtle hint from the dean that you should probably leave. It can't be a professional thing (i.e. plagiarism, unprofessional behavior) or an aspect of your ability (i.e. grades, research) because they would have openly stated if that were the case.

I am not hopeful after reading your account. The bridges may be already burnt. Maybe you should sit down with some close friends or fellow grad students and have them tell you if you have any shortcomings which make it difficult to work with you. It may be as simple as you are the political black sheep in the department and they don't want to hear your opinion, but it may also be intolerable personal traits which make it difficult to advise you: you don't listen to critiques, for example, or you are arrogant, etc. We can't know here on the internet, but your friends probably know, and probably have substantive suggestions for altering your behavior.

IMO, qbtacoma has raised questions that you should address in a soul searching conversation with yourself before proceeding.