Finding info on placement

[t_ruth]

Sorry to post so much on this new subforum

Some department web pages have lists of recent graduates and where they are now, which is *very* useful when trying to make school decisions. Other schools aren't so kind and want us to do our own digging I suppose. Does anyone have suggestions for how to find this information? Is it ok to ask a school (once you are accepted) if they would share placement information with you?

Thanks!

[ridgey]

Please, post away!

My suspicion (based on nothing but my cynical nature) is that schools know this is something people are interested in. Those that are confident in their placement rates make that information relatively easy to find; those that are less than proud won't go out of their way to make that information available.

What you could do - assuming you're thinking about jobs in the field - is look at the places you'd like to work and check out CVs. Admittedly, this is pretty inefficient but you'll be able to see if graduates of your programmes ever ever get the jobs you want, just not the rates they get those jobs.

[cardnav]

If it's not readily visible, try looking in the "for employers" section. Usually the school wants to brag about their success in order to attract more employers.

[UnlikelyGrad]

Also, check individual professors' research pages--they often have info about former grad students.

[doctoraldude]

if you cant find it - you can just email the grad assistant and ask - i did that for one school, and realized why they didnt want to put them on teh website !

[t_ruth]

Also, what is a good placement for someone right out of school? Should we expect people from a #12 ranked university (in the field) to stay in the top 20? or do most do some time in a lesser institution and then move up?

[IvyHope]

Generally speaking, in our field, it's not likely to get employment at an institution that's ranked higher than the one you did your PhD. However, much of this depends on the amount of work you complete while a graduate student- one of the most important things to keep in mind is the number of publications you have on your vita will likely determine your employability after grad school.

Publish or perish!

[t_ruth]

Generally speaking, in our field, it's not likely to get employment at an institution that's ranked higher than the one you did your PhD.

Yes, certainly, but is a lateral move common right out of grad school (or only going down one to five places)? or is it more common to drop even further? Considering an average amount of publications in graduate school...

[IvyHope]

Alot of it also depends on the job market. Right now, folks in my program are not getting any interviews. Hopefully the economy/job market will pick up over the next 2-3 years.

Yes, you can make a lateral move..but you have to be good as a graduate student. There are a couple of people I know who are young faculty from similar programs as the one they are now working in...the next step then becomes securing tenure, a process much more difficult than dissertating or finishing grad school, or getting into grad school for that matter (at least in our field).

If you want to move up on the job market, I'd shoot for 5+ publications, with several "on the assembly line" when you graduate. You are expected to make a certain number of publications in your first several years of work, and this contributes to your tenure decision. It's easier to set up some pubs as a graduate student to have them come out during your first couple years as faculty- this counts toward your publications credit.

[rising_star]

Perhaps more important than the specific department's placement record is that of the person you want to work with.

[dramanda]

I suggest looking at your POI's CV. These often list current and recent graduate students. You can then google these names to get a sense of where people end up "right out of the gate". If they don't have these listed, you can also look through publication lists and try to figure out some student names. It may take a while, but is perhaps worth it in the long run.

[t_ruth]

At most of the places I'm applying I'd be working with very new professors, so no date on their individual placement rate. Is this a positive or a negative then? Is it better to work with a more or less experienced advisor?

[socialpsych]

Is it better to work with a more or less experienced advisor?

T, what I've heard is that young professors can make very good mentors because they're just out of grad school themselves and have the energy to get you involved in their work. They are also very motivated to do research and publish actively, because they still need to expand their CV in order to get tenure. On the down side, they might be busier/more stressed out, and they are also more likely to move while you are still in the program...so the important thing is to build a connection with a more senior person so that you will still have a place in the program even if your advisor ends up moving.

This totally has nothing to do with the original topic you posted about, sorry...

[t_ruth]

no worries socialpsych, these topics tend to meander and your response is relevant...

hmmm....do students ever move w/their advisors? I was mostly asking about the experience thing since rising_star mentioned the placement record of the person I would be working with. I would just think that would be too malleable over time to mean much unless someone was a very established person in the industry...

[rising_star]

t_ruth, people do move with their advisor. My advisor has only been at this job for 3 years and he brought some of his grad students with him. The ones that were further along stayed put and defended at the previous institution. He was sort of considering taking a different job this year and he told me repeatedly that I could go with him if I wanted but could stay too. So, I think it sort of depends. And another, related story, at my old institution, a new prof started the same year I started my MA and he brought one grad student with him. His other students were at the fieldwork/dissertation stage so they stayed and he traveled back there for their defenses and that sort of thing.

As far as new professors, it depends. My MA thesis advisor was an untenured (though TT) assistant prof when I started. She got tenure my first year (I think). I never considered it an issue because she didn't think of it as one. She was the best person in the dept to advise me on the work I wanted to do. But, given the bleak academic job market, I wouldn't be worried too much about young profs (or even more senior ones) moving.