Is an MA in General Psychology worth it?

[rcpk310]

Hello all,

I recently applied to NYU's MA program in General Psych for Spring 2012 and am waiting to hear back. I have a 2010 BA in International Relations with lots of ethnic reconciliation/human rights non-profit experience. I decided a few months ago that psychology is my calling and I want to become a therapist. I took a couple of psych summer classes to fulfill necessary pre-reqs, am now a research assistant in 2 labs, and I am helping out a doctoral student edit his manuscript for publication.

I have talked to maaannnny people about path to becoming a therapist- whether or not I should do an MA in counseling, an MA in General Psych then a PhD in Clinical, or just a PhD in Clinical. Since I really like research, I decided against the counseling. Since my background in psychology is limited and clinical psych programs are insanely competitive, I thought it would be a good idea for me to do an MA in general psych first to gain more research experience, make connections, and work my ass off so I get a high GPA! I want to start ASAP, and I want to be in NYC, hence my spring application to NYU. It was the only school in NYC with spring admission that I liked, so I only applied there.

Here is where my current confusion lies- I really don't think I'm going to get into NYU because my GRE scores are not so great and I kind of rushed the application. If I indeed do not get into NYU, should I continue the research assistant positions I have now and apply to other MA programs for Fall 2012? Or should I skip the MA altogether and just go for the PhD in Clinical Psych, hoping that the longer I stick with my research positions, the stronger my application will be...? (Note: my research positions entail the kind of things undergraduate psych majors would do). I am personally leaning towards applying to other MA programs for the fall- I loooove the clinical psych MA at Teachers College and I also was thinking of looking into school in Boston, possibly BU and BC. However, I have heard so many people railing on MA programs that I feel maybe it would just be a huge waste of time and money. I don't know! Would love to hear what people think!!!

Thanks so much! Sorry for the long post!

[lewin]

I think every year we have this thread -- is the general MA worth it? Myself, I was rejected from the PhD program and accepted to the MA so I sympathize with the dilemma. My opinion was that it was too expensive. $25,000/year in tuition with no tuition waivers or teaching/research assistantships? No thanks! And a huge part of graduate school is be working directly with professors but I got the impression that the MA program does not offer that opportunity.

My decision was easier because I got accepted into other PhD programs, but I think even if I had not been, I would not have done the MA. I had kind of checked the box on a whim (on the PhD application) and didn't really think it through.

[lewin]

....p.s. by "every year we have this thread" I don't mean to disparage that fact, it just speaks to how many people are faced with the "NYU MA" dilemma.

[Behavioral]

If your undergrad GPA isn't abysmal, then skip the MA if your ultimate goal is a PhD. The component of your profile that will get you into PhD programs is research, and that can be accomplished by working in a lab (and not only is it free, but like most jobs, you might get paid for it, too!). I'd suggest an MA to people who have a red flag for a GPA and need to demonstrate ability to do well in more rigorous courses.

[rcpk310]

Thanks! Yeah I have heard people saying an MA is a waste of time and what you really need is research experience. I guess since I don't have a background in psych, I wanted to see if people maybe thought otherwise for my situation. Also the "research" I'm involved in right now is just me doing random things in the lab that grad students and professors ask me to do, like conducting interviews for experiments, setting up physiological measurements, transcribing and coding, etc. Haven't even gotten to do any statistical analysis yet, although that might happen soon. Anyway, all of this is to say that I don't know if this experience plus my limited psych background will be substantial enough to get me into good programs. Any suggestions for securing better lab positions? What kind of research work do I need to have on my application to be seen as an attractive applicant?

My GPA is not amazing...3.6 overall. However my major GPA was a 3.8, except that was for International Relations so I don't know if that would matter when applying for clinical psych programs!

Thanks for the feedback!

[-hermes-]

When do you hear back, rcpk310? Are you planning to accept if you get in?

I think my contention with the MA Psych program at NYU is that it's taught by adjunct professors.

[watson]

If your goal is to get a PhD in psych, then don't bother doing a terminal masters program. It's expensive and your PhD program will make you repeat your masters anyway (best case scenario you get out of a class or two, but you'll still need to do another thesis and you likely won't graduate the PhD program any faster). The kind of work you're doing now is exactly what grad schools look for in applicants--just make sure in your essay you explain clearly what you did (they want to know that you understood what it meant and what the studies were examining) and what you plan to do in grad school (they want to know you have clear goals, are dedicated to research, and know what you're getting into).

[socihealth]

I am applying to both masters and PhD programs. I think that the masters options overall are very expensive but might be good options if I can piece together some scholarship money. I appreciate your post Watson, because I had not factored in the extra time it might take to complete a masters and then take additional classes towards a masters at my PhD school in the future. Outside of the financial cost, do you think the time cost it worth it? Do schools prefer to admit students with no masters or do they see candidates with a masters degree as desireable?

[carlyhylton]

Ps @rcpk310

I went to a TC info seminar and their ''Clinical Masters'' program really isn't a Clinical Masters program per se...

TC offers what seems to be a pretty general MA program with two 'tracks'

the clinically oriented track is the MA in Psychology in Education: Applied Track (in Personality and Psychopathology)... which doesn't exactly seem like a Masters in Clinical to me...

A couple of things that I'd like to mention from the seminar:

PROS

-if you are interested in TC's faculty might be a good opportunity to network/work with profs if you'd like to apply there for your PhD, I think they have some pretty good counselling area profs but it's definitely not my area of expertise... a lot of their clinical faculty are kind of counselling-y too as a lot of them do psychotherapy stuff

CONS

-there are virtually no research assistant/research opportunities at the Masters level

-their programs are SUPER expensive. SUPER EXPENSIVE.

You could also look at other non-general masters programs?

Also.. on another note

Counselling psychology still entails research too...

maybe you mean that you like research that is 'hard(er) science'?

[sweetnighter]

Counseling Ph.D.'s have a major focus in research - as somebody who's intimately knowledgeable about NYU's counseling Ph.D., I can tell you that having too little research experience or interest guarantees a rejection. You shouldn't choose counseling v clinical based on your interest in doing research: You should make that decision based on your personal interests and framework. If you think the DSM is a bunch of BS and you're interested in multicultural psychology, counseling is the place for you. If you want to work with schizophrenics, clinical is the place for you. If you're somewhere in between, think it over and read about specific program's emphases and frameworks.

Ph.D. admissions are competitive. While many people still do go straight from undergrad to ph.d., its becoming less common. A good master's program will give you the opportunity to boost your GPA, meet faculty, and engage in research.

That said, I was accepted to NYU's psych master's too, but I turned it down because another school offered me the same degree for much less. NYU master's is certainly very expensive.

[Ameonna]

Having actually taken the MA option for Clinical Psychology, I can certainly agree with those who have said this option is very expensive. For me, if you factor in housing and all the other expenses (and extra classes), it was a $60,000 investment. That's huge, and I advise you NOT to take that lightly.

Even so, I am a firm believer in making the most of what you have, and an MA program in psychology is very much about what you make of it. What I haven't seen mentioned yet on this thread is LORs, which are a huge part of the application process; if you haven't had a lot of opportunities to create strong relationships with professors in undergrad, the MA may be your opportunity to do so. Also, you will be able to take advanced classes within the field, perform research, and work on a number of independent projects (including a Master's Level Thesis, which looks GREAT on an application). Of course, you have to make the most of these opportunities. Doing the bare minimum to graduate from an MA in psychology is a VERY BAD idea if you're going to make this kind of investment. If you do it, be prepared to work.

Also, I want to dispel something that has been stated on this thread previously; a Master's completed at another school CAN be carried over to a PhD in some cases, and some of the programs I have applied to will actually consider your Master's Thesis as a replacement for their own Master's Thesis requirement. Of course, this is a moot point for me since I'm switching research focuses entirely, but it's not necessarily going to be a "waste of time" depending on the program you apply to. You do have to research each individual program and see whether or not they will accept your classes/thesis as part of the MA work you did at another school.

Yes, you can go into a lab and work. It's cheaper, it can actually provide you some monetary gain AND you can get a lovely LOR from those positions. That said, what a Master's provides is the opportunity to show you can handle graduate-level work, not just in terms of research, but in terms of balancing classes, research, jobs and more. It's a lot of work; whether or not it's worth it is up to you!

[rcpk310]

When do you hear back, rcpk310? Are you planning to accept if you get in?

I think my contention with the MA Psych program at NYU is that it's taught by adjunct professors.

I didn't get in, as expected! But I think ultimately it's a good thing, given what I've heard from others about the program, the entirely adjunct faculty, and the fact that Clinical Psych is not even a research focus there.

If your goal is to get a PhD in psych, then don't bother doing a terminal masters program. It's expensive and your PhD program will make you repeat your masters anyway (best case scenario you get out of a class or two, but you'll still need to do another thesis and you likely won't graduate the PhD program any faster). The kind of work you're doing now is exactly what grad schools look for in applicants--just make sure in your essay you explain clearly what you did (they want to know that you understood what it meant and what the studies were examining) and what you plan to do in grad school (they want to know you have clear goals, are dedicated to research, and know what you're getting into).

Thanks for the encouragement about the research experience I'm involved in now. I'm still worried, though, that it's not going to be enough for me to compete with other applicants who have an undergraduate degree in psych and were able to do more as research assistants, even conduct their own research. I also am not 100% clear about what I want my area of concentration to be in grad school. I have some ideas, but they're not really based in experience, so that's something else I'm worred about when admissions is evaluating whether or not I will be a valuable contribution.

Ps @rcpk310

I went to a TC info seminar and their ''Clinical Masters'' program really isn't a Clinical Masters program per se...

TC offers what seems to be a pretty general MA program with two 'tracks'

the clinically oriented track is the MA in Psychology in Education: Applied Track (in Personality and Psychopathology)... which doesn't exactly seem like a Masters in Clinical to me...

A couple of things that I'd like to mention from the seminar:

PROS

-if you are interested in TC's faculty might be a good opportunity to network/work with profs if you'd like to apply there for your PhD, I think they have some pretty good counselling area profs but it's definitely not my area of expertise... a lot of their clinical faculty are kind of counselling-y too as a lot of them do psychotherapy stuff

CONS

-there are virtually no research assistant/research opportunities at the Masters level

-their programs are SUPER expensive. SUPER EXPENSIVE.

You could also look at other non-general masters programs?

Also.. on another note

Counselling psychology still entails research too...

maybe you mean that you like research that is 'hard(er) science'?

Thanks for the info about TC! I am actually working on my application as we speak. I LOVE the program actually, and when I visited there I just got a really good feeling from everyone I met with and felt people were very dedicated and down to earth. I got the sense, though, that actually there WERE research opportunities at the masters level, and that in fact masters students had the opportunity to confuct their own research for a masters thesis. This is part of the program that actually really attracted me to it. Re: counseling psych...yes, I know it entails research, I guess just from what I've heard (regarding masters programs in counseling) it's significantly less research than in a clinical program. I could be wrong though.

Counseling Ph.D.'s have a major focus in research - as somebody who's intimately knowledgeable about NYU's counseling Ph.D., I can tell you that having too little research experience or interest guarantees a rejection. You shouldn't choose counseling v clinical based on your interest in doing research: You should make that decision based on your personal interests and framework. If you think the DSM is a bunch of BS and you're interested in multicultural psychology, counseling is the place for you. If you want to work with schizophrenics, clinical is the place for you. If you're somewhere in between, think it over and read about specific program's emphases and frameworks.

Ph.D. admissions are competitive. While many people still do go straight from undergrad to ph.d., its becoming less common. A good master's program will give you the opportunity to boost your GPA, meet faculty, and engage in research.

That said, I was accepted to NYU's psych master's too, but I turned it down because another school offered me the same degree for much less. NYU master's is certainly very expensive.

Thanks for the info....this is a helpful way to think about choosing counseling vs clinical. I would definitely consider myself "somewhere in between", so after looking at the differences in the programs, mainly in what kind of coursework I would be taking and what the faculty are involved in, I became certain that clinical is for me.

[stereopticons]

I am currently finishing up my MA in Experimental/General Psychology at William and Mary. And I think it's been a really good choice for me. I started undergrad as a music major and switched halfway through, so I didn't have a lot of research experience. I don't know about NYU, but W&M's MA program is research-focused, and really, the whole program is set up to make you a more attractive candidate for PhD programs (that's what they keep telling me, anyway. I'll believe it when I get in!) I think the program has really helped me focus my research interests and figure out where I wanted to go with my research. However, there are several people in my year who are interested in doing clinical work, and I don't want to say they are less impressed with the program, but there is definitely less emphasis on clinical or counseling experience. One great thing (and probably the main reason I decided to go to W&M) is that the MA program here is funded-- tuition waiver and an almost-livable stipend. I was accepted to two other MA programs last time I applied and W&M definitely had the best financial offer.

tl;dr: It can be a good thing, especially if it's funded.

[onthegreatbayou]

I'm applying to the MA at William and Mary. It sounds great. I think it's important to consider what your goals on getting a masters are and to then check if the masters in focused on taught components or on research. I would eventually like to get a PhD so I think the W&M masters would put me in a good position for that.

Stereopticons - is it rude to ask how much the stipend was? I know that it can change from year to year but a rough figure would be appreciated. Doing a masters for which I'd have to take a few loans out wouldn't be an option for me.

[thinking]

Stereopticians, if you don't mind, I would be interested in the funding information too.

[Chase G]

I would have to agree that getting your PhD in this situation would probably be best. An MA would take up too much unnecessary time and money, but I also know that there are some students who decide to stick to the master's degree and consider a PhD in their future.

Personally, I went with a master's because I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do after school, but then I realized that a PhD would help me build my own practice. I found this site while looking for a master's degree program (http://www.mastersincounseling.org/) that really helped me find a great program and gave me a lot of information about my options.

I may be too late to help you with your particualr dilemma, but I hope this helps someone out there! Good Luck!