Are there any Straddlers out there?

[Blurry]

I was just curious if there were any fellow straddlers on this board: those from working class backgrounds, first generation college students, etc. I've been reading about some experiences transitioning from the working class to the "middle" class and I have found them similar to my own. It is all the more difficult for straddlers pursuing graduate studies.

[bellefast]

I am first generation and from a working class background. The sheer fact that I have done a lot of the things some other people did without my circumstances is so mind blowing. It is quite difficult for individuals like us especially in the beginning.

[litjust]

I, too, am first generation from a working class background. The "foreignness" of academia is what makes it so difficult, I think.

[philaed]

I am a first generation college grad/ from a working class family as well! Thanks for starting this thread for those us of applying this season....It is really difficult. I think that we end up spending a lot of time "figuring out" graduate school when most people might just ask a relative and get sound advice. With that said, building a network of "friends/advisors in academia" quickly becomes really essential.

[OnceAndFutureGrad]

Hi all, I too am first generation and from a working class background. My fiance has a steady blue-collar career so we are always going to be a house of two different worlds. Thank you for starting this thread. I have an MA - you can do it too! There are a number of challenges in graduate school for us "straddlers". It can be achingly difficult to interact daily with people whose experiences differ so much from ours. We may feel like impostors; or just as bad, the people we love may feel self-conscious by comparison to our success. In the US, a strong work ethic makes classicism less apparent than in other places, but it can still be awkward, particularly as some people refuse to admit their priviledged upbringing. I hope that we all find places in graduate school this season, and triumph through adversity.

[litjust]

For me, it will also be interesting to straddle both worlds and succeed in academia without having to relinquish the very fabric that shapes my identity, which is heavily influenced by my working class background. While I've started to build that network of friends in academia, I also make sure that I maintain relationships with folks outside of academia so that I stay relevant. I bet this will get harder once I actually begin a program. It seems like it would be easy to become so submerged in a new reality.

[DeeLovely79]

I am a straddler as well. I agree with the posters above, white collar/middle class world has its' own language that can be difficult to learn if you don't have mentors and colleagues willing to "translate" for you.

My difficulty has been that my position involves me working directly with clients from blue collar backgrounds and aiding my white collar supervisors/mentors in understanding their experiences. It's challenging because being that I grew up blue collar (I have the term working class, it implies that non-blue collar workers don't work, we are are non-blue collar workers and I'm pretty sure that we have all worked hard just to get to this point) that is the first lens through which I view everything and so I really identify so much with the ethics and beliefs but at the same time I don't want my kids to struggle the way I did. In order to break that cycle I'm moving deeper into a middle class career path which involves accepting a new set of behaivors and beliefs. In some sense you feel like you are rejecting your past, the very past that got you where you are now.

I've recieved my bachelor's degree from an Ivy League college, have a master's degree from a university that's in the top 20 of my field and I've worked with renown researchers, CEOs etc and I still struggle with the notion that don't belong. It all starts to click when I come across a young straddler who is in undergrad or getting their masters and I am able to give them the benefit of my experience. A large part of why I am pursuing my doctorate is so that I can help other straddlers navigate this world.

Edited January 15, 2012 by DeeLovely79

[bellefast]

There are a number of challenges in graduate school for us "straddlers". It can be achingly difficult to interact daily with people whose experiences differ so much from ours. We may feel like impostors; or just as bad, the people we love may feel self-conscious by comparison to our success. In the US, a strong work ethic makes classicism less apparent than in other places, but it can still be awkward, particularly as some people refuse to admit their priviledged upbringing. I hope that we all find places in graduate school this season, and triumph through adversity.

I hope so! I believe we all will make it. Someone will realize our passions and let us show them how great we are.

[Blurry]

Thanks to everyone for posting and I am glad the reception of this thread is so positive. There were a few specific things I wanted to say:

I am a first generation college grad/ from a working class family as well! Thanks for starting this thread for those us of applying this season....It is really difficult. I think that we end up spending a lot of time "figuring out" graduate school when most people might just ask a relative and get sound advice. With that said, building a network of "friends/advisors in academia" quickly becomes really essential.

I have an issue with networking and I think it is one of the more foreign things that I've encountered. Growing up, everything was sort of 'in your face'; people said what they meant and meant what they said and the idea of charming someone for individual advancement isn't just foreign, it is somewhat repulsive. I learned quickly as an undergraduate to keep my opinions to myself and not to stir the pot, so to speak. I would speak very passionately and loudly about issues and was somewhat confrontational, calling most everyone on their bullshit (or what I took to be bullshit; it was mostly diplomatic talk I was not used to). This all changed in my Masters studies and I am now much more quiet and my world has become mostly about what I don't say rather than what I do say.

Hi all, I too am first generation and from a working class background. My fiance has a steady blue-collar career so we are always going to be a house of two different worlds. Thank you for starting this thread. I have an MA - you can do it too! There are a number of challenges in graduate school for us "straddlers". It can be achingly difficult to interact daily with people whose experiences differ so much from ours. We may feel like impostors; or just as bad, the people we love may feel self-conscious by comparison to our success. In the US, a strong work ethic makes classicism less apparent than in other places, but it can still be awkward, particularly as some people refuse to admit their priviledged upbringing. I hope that we all find places in graduate school this season, and triumph through adversity.

That's fantastic and all the better if your fiancee is completely supportive of your career. I also constantly feel like an impostor and that I'm close to being 'found out' or something; it is quite weird and I did not handle this experience really well until I read about the experiences of other people.

Class seems to be a hushed subject. Just recently my philosophy department began a "task force" for the study of "minorities" in philosophy. Of course all they talk about is gender; the professor running the group is a woman (whose father was a surgeon and mother a lawyer). I do think that departments should encourage women to study philosophy; however the only reason that the issue of class is not brought up in this "task force" is because, to my knowledge, I am the only graduate student from a working class background and I never participated in these type of things; there just isn't that many people who can relate to my situation, I guess. I am not belittling the plight of women in graduate school (especially fields like philosophy, mathematics and physics where there are very few women); it is just that there are enough women in philosophy to care about issues concerning gender but there are virtually no straddlers in the field to raise the issues of class.

I can relate to everything else others have mentioned. If anyone is interested I read a book recently on the subject:

Alfred Lubrano, "Limbo: Blue Collar Roots, While Collar Dreams"

Given Lubrano's Italian-American background it was easy to relate to many of the issues he brought up from his own experiences (both my parents are from Italy), but he also recounts many other stories from other straddlers he has interviewed.

Another book I have picked up, but I have yet to read, is:

C.L. Dews, "This Fine Place so Far from Home: Voices from the Academic Working Class"

Edited January 15, 2012 by Blurry

[CanuckBoy]

I don't want to go off topic too much but I was wondering if I can get some opinions on helping underprivileged kids with their education.

I also don't want to confuse working class with "poorer" class but it seems that both receive similar resistance while in pursuit of higher education.

I read that in Toronto, they are trying this "get paid to go to school" scheme. Personally, I have mixed feelings about this.

http://www.thestar.com/article/891921--should-we-pay-needy-students-to-attend-school

My parents are both first generation and so while I was growing up I was constantly bombarded with stories about their difficult paths to higher education. Now they spend a lot of time volunteering to help underprivileged kids with their studies in the hopes that they wouldn't have to go through that they had gone through. One thing they mentioned that angers them is the perpetual cycle of the kids just want to find a job after high school. My dad came from a poor neighbourhood, he said he went back 20 years after he "escaped" from there, and it's still the same people living there, doing the same work, just a newer generation.

What are your thoughts about helping poor kids? Should we try to encourage them to pursue higher education? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale?

What do you think about helping prospective first generation university students to achieve their goals? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale?

[bellefast]

I don't want to go off topic too much but I was wondering if I can get some opinions on helping underprivileged kids with their education.

I also don't want to confuse working class with "poorer" class but it seems that both receive similar resistance while in pursuit of higher education.

I read that in Toronto, they are trying this "get paid to go to school" scheme. Personally, I have mixed feelings about this.

http://www.thestar.c...o-attend-school

My parents are both first generation and so while I was growing up I was constantly bombarded with stories about their difficult paths to higher education. Now they spend a lot of time volunteering to help underprivileged kids with their studies in the hopes that they wouldn't have to go through that they had gone through. One thing they mentioned that angers them is the perpetual cycle of the kids just want to find a job after high school. My dad came from a poor neighbourhood, he said he went back 20 years after he "escaped" from there, and it's still the same people living there, doing the same work, just a newer generation.

What are your thoughts about helping poor kids? Should we try to encourage them to pursue higher education? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale?

What do you think about helping prospective first generation university students to achieve their goals? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale?

Well it is very important to help underprivileged students since they are often not taught to want education. They are also in some of the most underfunded schools where they could have teachers who don't care, teachers who aren't certified or both. It needs to be fixed on a personal, community, and larger scale and different things need to be done for each.

-From someone who went through this

Edited January 16, 2012 by bellefast

[CanuckBoy]

Well it is very important to help underprivileged students since they are often not taught to want education. They are also in some of the most underfunded schools where they could have teachers who don't care, teachers who aren't certified or both. It needs to be fixed on a personal, community, and larger scale and different things need to be done for each.

-From someone who went through this

Thanks for the response. What are your thoughts on how?

[Blurry]

I don't want to go off topic too much but I was wondering if I can get some opinions on helping underprivileged kids with their education.

I also don't want to confuse working class with "poorer" class but it seems that both receive similar resistance while in pursuit of higher education.

I read that in Toronto, they are trying this "get paid to go to school" scheme. Personally, I have mixed feelings about this.

http://www.thestar.c...o-attend-school

My parents are both first generation and so while I was growing up I was constantly bombarded with stories about their difficult paths to higher education. Now they spend a lot of time volunteering to help underprivileged kids with their studies in the hopes that they wouldn't have to go through that they had gone through. One thing they mentioned that angers them is the perpetual cycle of the kids just want to find a job after high school. My dad came from a poor neighbourhood, he said he went back 20 years after he "escaped" from there, and it's still the same people living there, doing the same work, just a newer generation.

What are your thoughts about helping poor kids? Should we try to encourage them to pursue higher education? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale?

What do you think about helping prospective first generation university students to achieve their goals? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale?

I would think that the experience in, say, Quebec is different from the experience in Canada which is itself different from the American experience. In this respect, each situation probably calls for different measures. A majority of the working class is not poor (in fact many working class families out-earn middle-class families) and, in Quebec at least, it is not as economically challenging to pursue university studies. I worked and funded my entire Bachelor's degree at a prestigious Canadian university in Quebec. Had this been in the United States, I would have accumulated far more debt and may have had to rethink my studies in the humanities.

The most important issue in working class or underprivileged families is cultural capital; growing up in such environments, children essentially have none. I did not grow up reading Dickens or Chaucer. In fact, I did not grow up with any books at all. My parents did not and could not pass on any 'culture' and I did not grow up in an environment that trained me to navigate middle class institutions and environments. The only thing I had was a father who used his own life and own mistakes as a model for what I should not do in life. He would tell me, constantly, that I did not want to grow up to be like him and working a dirty job.

I was lucky. Many working class families have a peculiar disdain for higher education and it makes it very difficult for children in such families to grow up wanting to pursue higher education. This is a problem that no amount of money or policies could fix.

The problem becomes all the more acute when many kids from the working class will make more money in construction, laying brick, plumbing, etc., than had they continued going to school and got a middle-class job.

I honestly do think that a lot of the attitudes among the working class that discourage higher education could be obviated, to a certain extent, by placing a greater emphasis on the humanities and the liberal arts in high schools (history and intellectual history in particular). These tend to help some students center themselves socially and historically and makes them think of their lives in terms of contributing to society rather than in stark, individualistic terms. It would also help pass on much-needed cultural capital. By itself, this would by no means be sufficient but it would help those few that would, otherwise, not have even thought about culture and higher education.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Blurry

[violet.]

I'm glad to hear people using the term "straddler" and acknowledging that it can be difficult for straddlers in higher ed. I loved Lubrano's book and definitely identify with it. I do feel like it is going to be odd to tell people, especially my classmates from high school that I am getting a PhD. Most of them went to and dropped out of the local community college.

[RedPanda]

Another "Straddler" here! I have never seen the term before but I relate to it wholeheartedly.

I grew up in a blue collar household where "getting an education" was viewed as a golden ticket for moving up to a better life. I had no idea what I was in for when I went to college. I had a hard time relating to my classmates but at least I was at a competitive Tech school so the challenges were more academic than social.

That was not the case during my first attempt at a PhD, though. I ended up leaving my Ivy League program with a Masters degree because I just could not assimilate. I knew nothing about networking, soft skills were an unknown concept, and I couldn't relate to the other students at all. It's not easy to have a conversation about your office mate's birthday safari in Africa when your family celebrates special occasions with a Carvel cake and dinner at the Outback. (Mind you, I quite like Carvel cakes and Outback dinners - I just had no that idea the cultural differences would be so pronounced! Grad school turned out to be like moving to a foreign country.) And I am still bothered that who you know matters so much more than what you know for advancement in white collar / academic circles.

I'm going through the application process now with a much clearer view of what to expect but I'm still a tad worried about finding a program that I will be comfortable in. It's gratifying to see that so many other Straddlers a ) do exist, and b ) are facing the same challenges that I'm facing. Many, many thanks for starting this thread!

(Edited to remove unintentional emoticon )

Edited January 16, 2012 by RedPanda

[Andsowego]

What are your thoughts about helping poor kids? Should we try to encourage them to pursue higher education? Should this be done at a personal level? Community level? Or an even larger scale? [snip]...

Thanks for the response. What are your thoughts on how?

CanuckBoy,

You might want to post your question in the Education section of this forum (if you haven't already done so). I'm not saying you shouldn't have posted it here... just saying you'll likely get a lot more info on this topic from people who are conducting research in this area (in addition to the anecdotal advice you'd receive elsewhere in the forum).

Edited January 16, 2012 by Andsowego

[Andsowego]

Thanks to everyone for posting and I am glad the reception of this thread is so positive. There were a few specific things I wanted to say:

I have an issue with networking and I think it is one of the more foreign things that I've encountered. Growing up, everything was sort of 'in your face'; people said what they meant and meant what they said and the idea of charming someone for individual advancement isn't just foreign, it is somewhat repulsive. I learned quickly as an undergraduate to keep my opinions to myself and not to stir the pot, so to speak. I would speak very passionately and loudly about issues and was somewhat confrontational, calling most everyone on their bullshit (or what I took to be bullshit; it was mostly diplomatic talk I was not used to). This all changed in my Masters studies and I am now much more quiet and my world has become mostly about what I don't say rather than what I do say.

[snipped to save space in re-quoting]

re: the bolded part. I'm totally in agreement. One of the hardest things I've had to do as a grad student is acclimate to the idea of networking. Not that I haven't networked before, but the contextual expectations surrounding it are so different in academia than in what I would consider "real life." I literally have a physical reaction to name-dropping and anything that can remotely be considered disingenuous. It turns my stomach. I grew up in a family where people said what they meant without a hidden agenda and where people were appreciated for transparency, so this academic concept of networking (especially at a conference - don't even get me started on how much I loathe that practice) feels unnatural to me. I like to refer to it as "AAK" (academic a**-kissing) and I usually avoid it at all costs. As soon as a person gives me the impression that they'd rather talk about all the people they've worked with, and all the people they know (rather than the actual work they're doing or the ideas they might be interested in sharing), I tune out and move on. I never really considered my response to be borne from this "straddler" phenomenon before, but it's definitely something I'm going to give more thought to.

[Blurry]

re: the bolded part. I'm totally in agreement. One of the hardest things I've had to do as a grad student is acclimate to the idea of networking. Not that I haven't networked before, but the contextual expectations surrounding it are so different in academia than in what I would consider "real life." I literally have a physical reaction to name-dropping and anything that can remotely be considered disingenuous. It turns my stomach. I grew up in a family where people said what they meant without a hidden agenda and where people were appreciated for transparency, so this academic concept of networking (especially at a conference - don't even get me started on how much I loathe that practice) feels unnatural to me. I like to refer to it as "AAK" (academic a**-kissing) and I usually avoid it at all costs. As soon as a person gives me the impression that they'd rather talk about all the people they've worked with, and all the people they know (rather than the actual work they're doing or the ideas they might be interested in sharing), I tune out and move on. I never really considered my response to be borne from this "straddler" phenomenon before, but it's definitely something I'm going to give more thought to.

I do think that this has much to do with many for our discomforts with networking although I would not say it is the only possible source of discomfort. Many people find networking irritating.

Again, to new posters, I'm glad there is a good reception to this thread.

On another note I wanted to ask everyone here something which just occurred to me: I remember reading a while back that The University of Minnesota had a reputation both for helping and accepting many students from working class backgrounds. I had not given it much thought until I recently applied there. The application actually asked me about the academic background of my parents and I was somewhat surprised. Has anyone experienced this at any other school? I do find it encouraging that there are attempts to identify 'non-visible' minorities.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Blurry

[DeeLovely79]

I applied to the University of Michigan and they ask your about parent's academic achievements;if you attended a comunity college, HBCU or single gender institution; if you grew up in rural or urban area and whether you/your family experienced economic hardship to finance your college education. Unfortunately I don't think any of the other programs that I applied to asked for this information.

I believe this is a part of a larger effort to diversify institutions of higher learning since race can't be used as criteria in admissions decisions. I believe that the Obama administration put out guidelines regarding this last year.

[DeeLovely79]

For me the most difficult part about working in middle class society is the ambiguity. You have to read between the lines so much that it's easy to see something that isn't there. I find I usually walk away from conversations thinking "I know they said X, but what are they really trying to tell me".

It's also very hard to know where you stand since very people will tell you anything flat out. This is part of what makes this graduate school application process so difficult since you not sure if you get a call from a POI if means "you've been accepted" or "we'll let you in if you don't screw up" or "our top choice went to another school and you're an acceptable substitute" you got to read tea leaves to figure all of this out because to flat out ask would be rude.

[CanuckBoy]

CanuckBoy,

You might want to post your question in the Education section of this forum (if you haven't already done so). I'm not saying you shouldn't have posted it here... just saying you'll likely get a lot more info on this topic from people who are conducting research in this area (in addition to the anecdotal advice you'd receive elsewhere in the forum).

Thanks

[Andsowego]

I do think that this has much to do with many for our discomforts with networking although I would not say it is the only possible source of discomfort. Many people find networking irritating.

Again, to new posters, I'm glad there is a good reception to this thread.

On another note I wanted to ask everyone here something which just occurred to me: I remember reading a while back that The University of Minnesota had a reputation both for helping and accepting many students from working class backgrounds. I had not given it much thought until I recently applied there. The application actually asked me about the academic background of my parents and I was somewhat surprised. Has anyone experienced this at any other school? I do find it encouraging that there are attempts to identify 'non-visible' minorities.

re: irritations of networking.

Oh, for sure. I'm sure there are a million things I could list that are the cause of conference discomfort! Honestly, I just never considered it from the "straddler" point of view before, and I think there's merit in further investigation. I'm 75% done my doctoral program and have presented at countless conferences at this point. I actually enjoy public speaking, and sharing my work publicly. I just really hate the whole conference culture (for the most part... I do admit to enjoying some of the aspects of networking). My upbringing was very blue collar, working class, no expendable income. My parents both went to community college (technical cert's, no degrees) and have spent a lifetime working hard just to make ends meet. I still live my day-to-day life as if I have no money (which I kind of don't as a grad student, but even when I was working full time before I returned to grad school, I was overly careful with expenses). I'm also the person at conferences who doesn't like to waste food, and doesn't like to leave lights on in a room when I leave, etc. etc. You get the picture. These things spill over into my daily existence at an elite research-based university where others I'm studying with have generations of family history at the university. I've never really felt like an "insider" in many ways, but I just attributed it to being unique, rather than something that is directly attributed to my context in a class system. Next step: I think I might check out Lubrano's book (thanks for that suggestion!).

(and RedPanda, this line, "It's not easy to have a conversation about your office mate's birthday safari in Africa when your family celebrates special occasions with a Carvel cake and dinner at the Outback" is RAD. Been there, done that, still enjoying the cake!)

[Pitangus]

(and RedPanda, this line, "It's not easy to have a conversation about your office mate's birthday safari in Africa when your family celebrates special occasions with a Carvel cake and dinner at the Outback" is RAD. Been there, done that, still enjoying the cake!)

Oh man, my family loves the Outback. We get our cakes from Dairy Queen though. =P

I just hope I'm not messing everything up while applying to graduate school.

I'll admit I did a poor job selecting and applying to undergrad schools.

My dad picked up the US News Best Colleges thing and I pretty much just went through and picked some nearby schools where my GPA and SAT scores matched or slightly exceeded their averages. Neither of my parents went through the normal college process (though my mom worked several jobs and took night classes to eventually get her B.S.), so they didn't know any other way to guide me. I ended up going to the school that offered me the most financial aid, which turned out to be a good fit in that aspect, but not a good fit in almost every other.

Oh well.

I think I'm a little more informed this time around, though my family and friends have no idea and are assuming I know what I am doing. I forced myself to start networking at the end of my junior year, and after taking a year off to build more connections & get more experience, I think I am in a good place. For me at least. We'll see...

Edited January 16, 2012 by Pitangus

[bellefast]

I am happy people are talking about this. I finally feel like people feel what I feel. It is so hard to talk about these things to people who don't experience it. And I too hate a** kissing. Gosh, if I knew what I knew now, I would have tried to go to a research school. Getting research experience at a teaching school, one that does not do any type of research like Ohio State for example (just picked the school...roll with me here) makes it difficult to prove that I wanted to do anything while applying to graduate school. Even in the school, I had to do extra work to find stuff that was already known by privledged students.

But it is safe to say that even if I don't know you all, I feel your struggle and we are all going to succeed!

[wildviolet]

Hello fellow straddlers!

Well, I heard on the radio recently that we're all pretty much "working" class. That is, if you have to be employed to put food on the table, have a roof over your head, save for retirement, etc., then you're working class.

Anyway, I'm the oldest of ten and the first in my family to go to college and earn a graduate degree (Master's). My family is encouraging about pursuing a Ph.D. (after all, it's the highest you can get, right?) and proudly display any educational achievements. I'm finding encouragement and support from various sources... colleagues, friends, and older people who have more experience and knowledge than I do. I'm listening to anyone who's willing to talk. And I try to pass this wisdom on to my younger brothers and sisters.

I think it's going to an interesting experience. As we get to know people better, I think we'll find that people in academia come from many different places and backgrounds, not all of them privileged. I think the best thing is to keep an open mind and heart.