Higher ranking vs. Ivy League

[msee]

Hi guys,

I got admits from schools. I applied for M.S. programs (electrical engineering),

but I will apply for PhD in the future after working 3 years (so will apply after 4 - 5 years from now)

Should I choose an Ivy League school (top 20) or higher ranking non-ivy league school (top 10)?

Thank you in advance!

[cunninlynguist]

The Ivy League is an athletic conference. It doesn't automatically denote an excellent program, particularly at the graduate level, in a given discipline. If you've received admission offers from 2 schools and are likely to pursue a PhD in the same field, go with the higher-ranking program. The admissions committees reviewing your PhD application will not assume the Ivy program is better -- they'll be aware of the distinction between a top 10 and top 20.

(Congrats on the acceptances!)

[msee]

thank you so much!

[ComeBackZinc]

Department rep over school rep. If you're applying to a PhD, the programs you apply to will know very well which program is better. Go with the better, non-Ivy school. Choosing an Ivy for an Ivy's sake impresses your family but doesn't help you professionally.

[hope4fall2012]

I would say the same thing too..Choose the "higher ranked" program..

Assuming one thing, the higher ranked program offers you what you are looking for, whatever it may be, better expertise in your sub-area of research, better job placement history etc.. Ranking systems usually take into account a whole lot of parameters which may or may not be relelvant for you.. Make sure you apply your own judgement when choosing universities..

Also, since you are choosing a Masters program, this might not be a big deal, but for a PhD choose the professor first and the university next..Well, atleast a major part of your decision should factor in the professor

[Stately Plump]

I would have real trouble turning down an Ivy League admit...

But everyone is right. The department ranking is what matters, and people in your field will be privy to that info.

The grandeur of an Ivy League education doesn't hold as much weight in specialized graduate work. Plus you can impress people by telling them you got into a school that's better than Ivy League!

[KJ90]

Depends on the Ivy League though. Some of the bigger names are worth it just because of the brand. Don't underestimate how far a name can take you.

[juilletmercredi]

I agree that the name/Ivy League thing doesn't help much in PhD admissions...but it *can* help some in professional job searching depending on the differences between the schools.

[hungry]

There is a chance the Ivy League 'name' could help you get a better job afterwards, and that might make up for the lower ranking when it comes time to apply for PhD programs in 5 years. Visit both!

[ghanada]

I have a similar but different question than the OP. I am currently accepted to the BME PhD at Boston University and I have an interview for BME PhD at Columbia coming up. Now BU is highly regarded within the BME field (top 10), but not as well respected as a graduate engineering school in general (top 50). However, Columbia is pretty much the opposite with only being top 20 in BME specifically, but top 15 for graduate engineering.

Now, if I got into Columbia and I like both campuses, both advisers, etc exactly the same, I am torn on what would be a better choice. I am about 50/50 on whether I plan to stay in academia or goto industry. My personal feelings would be that if I went to industry Columbia would be more favored since it is Ivy and has a great reputation. However, if I were to stay in academia than all potential post-doc BME schools recognize BU as being extremely strong in BME. Can anyone confirm this opinion or offer any other insights? Thanks!

[ANDS!]

Columbia. Easily. The difference in programs is probably negligible; however the Columbia name will carry more weight.

[cartel]

Similar scenario, but mine is more hypothetical because I am still waiting on admits. But consider that I am looking at M.S. in CS programs:

UMD College Park (14th) v Columbia/UPenn (17th)

UMD College Park v Brown (20)

In this case, these are top 20 programs versus a top 15 program, but the actual difference is relatively small, isn't it? To the point that name brand may be the larger factor?

All of this assuming I don't get off the CMU waitlist...which I'm still holding out for

Edited February 21, 2012 by cartel

[ghanada]

Similar scenario, but mine is more hypothetical because I am still waiting on admits. But consider that I am looking at M.S. in CS programs:

UMD College Park (14th) v Columbia/UPenn (17th)

UMD College Park v Brown (20)

In this case, these are top 20 programs versus a top 15 program, but the actual difference is relatively small, isn't it? To the point that name brand may be the larger factor?

All of this assuming I don't get off the CMU waitlist...which I'm still holding out for

Your case seems like a pretty easy choice. The difference between 14 and 17, and even 14 to 20 is very minimal. Keep in mind a lot of the rankings are more of a range. So like a school ranked 14 could easily be reasonably thought of as 10-18, and a 17 rank could be a 13-21 range. So I personally don't think numbers that close really matter. At that point I would just choose which adviser is a better fit and which name brand gains more respect. Since you are applying for a M.S. I am guessing none of those are funded, but I would imagine cost should be a pretty big factor as well.

I am still curious if anyone else has any input on my situation? Again, BU is ranked like 8 in BME and Columbia is closer to 20. But BU is like #40 in general grad engineering while Columbia is 16.

[Rexbocker828]

I think for undergrad, choosing the Ivy will open up more doors and what not but it's really about the program once you start looking for a masters. However in your case it seems as if the numbers are relatively close and having an Ivy on your resume can be beneficial especially since you're future plans are tentative now. Who knows what will happen in grad school. You might complete the program and completely change course.

[an_internet_person]

Ah, I'm having a similar seemingly-existential crisis. Berkeley is where my PI works, but that funding is iffy, and I've been offered muchos moola to work with not-quite-as-solid-of-a-match PIs at Harvard. Le sigh.

If it helps, I think I'll end up choosing Berkeley because of the PI (regardless of the rank... though Berkeley ranks 6th, and H is at 8th), but the allure of "Harvard" and guaranteed monies is making this an extremely difficult decision. If anyone has any thoughts, I'd love to hear them.

I guess my current advice is to go where the research match is. Otherwise, it's going to be 2 or 5 or more long years.

Can't. Stop. Obsessing. Over. This.

CU v. UMD:

This may be silly of me to do, but because you did not mention PhD prospects, I am going ti assume that this is potentially a terminal degree. In that case, I feel that Columbia is a better choice than UMD... Columbia is only getting stronger, and in 20 years, my guess would be that the leverage you gain from an Ivy degree and alum network will gain you increasing benefits/open doors. That said, a lot of jobs right out of grad school are gained by your advisor's connections, so if the research/study topic is not what you want to do at the school you choose, the value of an ivy name (or rank) may be pointless in landing you that perfect job.

Same thing Re: BU v. Columbia (I think), but the rank differential is much higher, so I'm inclined to believe that research quality will not be similar... though certainly this should be decided after careful scrutiny. If you know exactly what you want to research as a doctoral student, then go with the advisor/lab that is doing the highest quality work in the field. On the other hand, if you're still unsure of exactly what research you want to pursue as a PhD student, then Columbia all the way. A masters degree from Columbia will look nice on your resume regardless of the career you wind up with in 20 years, and will certainly help you get into those PhD programs... I chose Yale (ranked 15th) over higher-ranked UW (4th) for my masters, and the resources here have allowed me to explore my interests within the broader field (get the best internships via alum connections, perform projects paid for by school fellowship/grant opportunities, etc.) in a way that put me at the top of the pile during the PhD app process.

... hope that helps some. Also, FWIW, BU is definitely not a shabby name to have on your resume in the Northeast.

Anyone have thoughts on H (funded) v. B (shaky funding)?

Edited February 22, 2012 by werd814

[ghanada]

@werd814: what departments are you applying to? If it is engineering than Berkeley usually does carry a lot more weight than Harvard. But if it is more in general sciences, Harvard is pretty damn good. Plus, as you said, you can never go wrong with having the Harvard name. Haha and actually looking at your list of apps, ANY of those names will be extremely solid. I know you don't think UW carries as much weight as the ivys, BUT I am from the west coast and UW is extremely well regarded. I too am living in new england now so I can see why you don't see UW as alluring, but believe me, people from the west coast respect UW as much as just about any of the other programs you have listed. In fact, on the west coast, more random people would be able to tell you that UW is Seattle than they would be able to tell you what city Yale, Columbia, or Hopkins are located in. Sounds crazy, but I guarantee you this is true.

If I were in your situation, I would probably choose Harvard if Berkeley offers no funding or at least so little that you would need to take loans. Also, how bad is the Harvard PI fit? Because if Berkeley's fit is like a 10 and Harvard was a 8 or 9, than Harvard probably still wins out. Now, if Berkeley were a 10 and Harvard is a 6, than you probably have some just cause picking Berkeley (even without funding).

[cartel]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, guys. I was on a similar wavelength -- since the rankings really are more of a range, then +- 5 probably isn't as much of a gain/loss as having or not having that Ivy status. And yes, that connection building could be huge...

werd, Re: Berkeley vs. Harvard, just remember that research interests can change/develop over time, so the initial question of "is this a perfect fit" might not be as relevant as "is this a good enough fit that I'll be happy". Not much to add on top of what ghanada already said. It comes down to how much the difference there is between the Harvard fit compared to the Berkely fit. But man, you've got some good options!

Edited February 23, 2012 by cartel

[mo mo]

Hi all,

I'm in a similar position to werd814. I've got two acceptances to PhD programs in biology, both of which are highly regarded in the field, but I am really torn about where to go. I currently work at UPenn, am from Boston originally, so part of me really wants a radical change. UPenn pays its students a 30k stipend and boasts a fancy name. University of Washington is super sweet though, pays only a 22k stipend, but students have a very high rate of success in being granted NSF fellowships (which ups the stipend). Both schools are doing really cool research.

My family and friends are on the east coast (Boston and DC), but I really don't see them that often. Knowing they are close by is nice though. My boyfriend is also a big fan of mountains, and gets really claustrophobic in crowded cities. We are currently in a long distance relationship (which really sucks, if you don't already know), but he will come with me to the place I choose for grad school.

Any words of wisdom out there?