RWBG Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 ^True. And I might get flak for this, but how does the department maintain such high rankings? I would think that the funding situation would put UW-M at a competitive disadvantage vis-à-vis other top programs, which would theoretically lead to UW-M's admitted pool bleeding top talent to other schools. Over time, surely that would negatively impact placement and rankings, right? (Granted, rankings tend to lag, and maybe my assumptions about prospective student behavior are totally off-base.) No doubt UW-M has top-tier faculty. Maybe that's the difference. The general impression I get is that UW-M places less well than its faculty would suggest they should... this might be a factor. But I'm speculating. All in all, it has a great faculty, and the department has a reputation for congeniality, so I think there are a lot of smart grad students who'd be willing to take the financial hit to go to UW-M. Faculty fit and training are going to be more important in the long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balderdash Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The general impression I get is that UW-M places less well than its faculty would suggest they should... this might be a factor. But I'm speculating. All in all, it has a great faculty, and the department has a reputation for congeniality, so I think there are a lot of smart grad students who'd be willing to take the financial hit to go to UW-M. Faculty fit and training are going to be more important in the long-term. Yeah, and I think the fact that they're not the typical specialization (with a strong focus on heterodox institutionalism, state formation, Africanist work, etc.) is reflected in their placement record. I mean, you may be the best at training qual-minded Africanist hobos like myself, but there are still only a limited number of schools that will want to hire me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWBG Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Yeah, and I think the fact that they're not the typical specialization (with a strong focus on heterodox institutionalism, state formation, Africanist work, etc.) is reflected in their placement record. I mean, you may be the best at training qual-minded Africanist hobos like myself, but there are still only a limited number of schools that will want to hire me. Possibly; I don't know much about the Africanist market. Madison has hired a lot of quant/formal-friendly types in the last five years, so it's hard to say yet whether the people being placed in those areas are going to do better on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 On 2/18/2012 at 12:32 AM, balthasar said: i might have gotten a bit carried away (Yeah I was kidding. I think you were too though so maybe we can be friends?) But also, I just got WashU's funding offer tonight; I was admitted two days ago! I mean, I can't complain too much because Wisconsin is a great school and getting admitted there made the past few weeks much more bearable etc etc, but there's no denying that the immense lag is kind of weird. Also: I hate to bum-out fellow qual-minded people re Wisconsin (I applied there specifically because I really liked the work that Dr. Walsh has done), but I've heard that the department has trended a lot more quantitative in the past few years, both in hiring practices and in the general culture of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balthasar Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Great news dienekes, congrats. I thought we were already friends. How does WashU fare in terms of funding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent09 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (P.s. I have no idea how much the insurance plan would be valued at, can anyone make an educated guess at it? Tough to say, guess it depends on the plan. WUSTL says the expected fee for health is $600/yr (the school pays 90%). Of course, that might not be the value of the plan they would include if trying to beef up the total value of the financial package. So maybe just guess 500-1000I per annum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwnich1 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ummm...this will sound weird, but I'm not actually totally sure. The letter includes a "total value" of $47000, but that's tuition, health insurance, and the fellowship stipend I'm receiving. Tuition for an out-of-stater is $26k~ according to the website, so that leaves $21k~ divided between health insurance and the 9 month stipend...but I also get $5k for the summer of 2013. Subtract $280/quarter in fees from that total, and it's what I'm receiving. Following that first year, though, it'll drop to $13725 for the following four years...but I was assured in my earlier conversations with people in the department that summer funding is definitely possible, so I'd guess closer to $16-17k for the duration. I think I can safely say that it will (likely) be more than Wisconsin's offer in terms of the total amount, but not wildly so in terms of purchasing power because Seattle is a much more expensive place to live. (P.s. I have no idea how much the insurance plan would be valued at, can anyone make an educated guess at it?) In my conversation with Wisconsin, they were adamant that their health care was worth the differential between their stipend and most others. (a fact repeated in the letter) Does anyone know what the deal is? (low / no copay, prescription drug plan etc?) FWIW some googling revealed that Wisconsin is notoriously stingy with stipends (blog entries by students in other depts etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent09 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 ^ That must be some coverage. I don't use healthcare enough to make up the difference. But maybe some would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hupr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The health care at UW is really generous and cheap. It's probably not as noticeable when you're on your own, but if you get married or have kids, then it can make a substantial difference. At my private school, it costs $5,500 a year to add a spouse and then another $2,000-$3,000 a year to add a child. This means that insuring a spouse and kid would cost me a third of my stipend. At UW, by contrast, the monthly insurance premiums go from $18 for singles to $41 a month for a full family plan (including spouse and up to 2 kids, I believe). If you think you'll get married or have a family over the next 5-6 years, this can be something to take into consideration. I suspect the premiums have increased given the political situation in Wisconsin (grad students get the same insurance as state employees), but even if they've doubled, it's still a fantastic deal. I think the best thing would be to go talk to UW students during the visit and ask how they made their decision and how they get by on the stipend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwnich1 Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 ^ That must be some coverage. I don't use healthcare enough to make up the difference. But maybe some would. Completely agreed. However they also include an APSA membership, conference travel etc. I'm wondering how it compares when you also factor in the lowish cost of living in Wisconsin. Is this a topic we can broach whilst visiting? (ask other grads how living on the stipend works out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Of wisconsins funding, one of my mentors told me that when he was applying about 12 years ago, Wisconsin upped their offer by around 5k/yr as soon as he told them he had offers from Princeton and Yale. I have no idea if they still operate this way but it can't hurt to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising_star Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Is this a topic we can broach whilst visiting? (ask other grads how living on the stipend works out) Yes, definitely! As a grad student, it's something I expect to be asked about by visiting students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Completely agreed. However they also include an APSA membership, conference travel etc. I'm wondering how it compares when you also factor in the lowish cost of living in Wisconsin. Is this a topic we can broach whilst visiting? (ask other grads how living on the stipend works out) I think that's absolutely okay to ask grad students about that kind of thing. They're (in my opinion) actually the most important part of the visit because they clue you into all kinds of things that may not be apparent and won't be communicated by professors/administrators who either don't know or won't tell you. e: beaten! Edited February 19, 2012 by dienekes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwnich1 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yes, definitely! As a grad student, it's something I expect to be asked about by visiting students. I think that's absolutely okay to ask grad students about that kind of thing. They're (in my opinion) actually the most important part of the visit because they clue you into all kinds of things that may not be apparent and won't be communicated by professors/administrators who either don't know or won't tell you. e: beaten! I've been a cube dweller too long now (ok less than 2 years, but it feels like an eternity) - everything at work is shrouded in secrecy...you must never ask anyone else their salary etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltlakecity2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So I've heard lots of stuff about people being able to negotiate slightly better funding packages for themselves - how does that process work? What kind of leverage is most useful? What kind of increases could one potentially achieve? Any thoughts would be very welcome. potbellypete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent09 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 So I've heard lots of stuff about people being able to negotiate slightly better funding packages for themselves - how does that process work? What kind of leverage is most useful? What kind of increases could one potentially achieve? Any thoughts would be very welcome. Just had this conversation this morning, actually. Impression I get is that the only real leverage you have is more funding elsewhere, preferably at a comparable institution. Movement will depend on the department, how much money they have, and how much they want you. I've gotten a bump for at least $4k+ this cycle, but I doubt many (if any) other schools would make a similar shift. (Given that the program is lower-ranked than my others, I don't think I could leverage it for more elsewhere.) Then again, I really suck at asking for more money. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, worst they can say is no. But the better the competing offer, the more likely you are to get a bump. As far as how to negotiate -- sounds like you just tell the DGS how much you've been offered, and ask if there's any way they can make up some of the difference. Worked for my advisor, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwnich1 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just had this conversation this morning, actually. Impression I get is that the only real leverage you have is more funding elsewhere, preferably at a comparable institution. Movement will depend on the department, how much money they have, and how much they want you. I've gotten a bump for at least $4k+ this cycle, but I doubt many (if any) other schools would make a similar shift. (Given that the program is lower-ranked than my others, I don't think I could leverage it for more elsewhere.) Then again, I really suck at asking for more money. I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, worst they can say is no. But the better the competing offer, the more likely you are to get a bump. As far as how to negotiate -- sounds like you just tell the DGS how much you've been offered, and ask if there's any way they can make up some of the difference. Worked for my advisor, apparently. How did you broach the subject? To me it seems sort of hard to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent09 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) ^ Yea, that's tough. I think you just have to bite the bullet if the DGS doesn't ask. Which sounds terribly awkward to me... edit: To clarify, by 'bite the bullet' I mean you have to just bring it up, not accept a lower funding package. Like Megan says below. Edited February 21, 2012 by brent09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I think you say something like: "You know, your program is my top choice, but X is offering me a much more competitive package. I'm wondering if there is any flexibility in your offer?" Just like negotiating a salary for a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobababo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Depending on your situation (and who is recruiting you ) you can also try to bring this question up with your POI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expatbayern Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 To share my experience a few years ago with trying to bargain for higher funding: At every place I visited, the DGS seemed totally prepared to have a conversation about this. The responses tended toward "let me know where else you're considering and how much they're offering you and I'll look into what we can do" (and I'm sure they gave that answer to many other students trying to do the same thing at the visits). What they end up doing is going to be some function of how much flexibility they actually have, how much they want you, and what the competing offers are. This will vary greatly among schools and applicants, of course, and be prepared for them to come back with responses like "well, you have to consider cost of living when comparing our stipend to theirs...," etc. Things I had happen at at least one place: -minor one-year bump in stipend (funding for latter years, which was my major concern with the package, remained low) -adding in a "start-up grant"/signing bonus (this was not a standard part of the package at this school, but they matched the largest one I was offered by a competitor) -offers of guaranteed summer money/RAships on top of stipend (these came from particular professors I was interested in working with, not directly from the DGS) Things I did not have happen anywhere: -major changes to stipend level over a period of years (except in cases where this came in the form of some university-wide fellowship, which they had said up front they entered me for, not something that happened due to bargaining) The major worthwhile advice I have to give (besides go ahead and ask--everyone else is doing the same thing and no one will be offended) is if there are senior faculty with large grants/pots of money that you're interested in working with, talking to them (and getting them to agree to take you on for lots of RA work early in grad school) can be much more effective than dealing with the DGS (who is probably limited in flexibility). iwouldpreferanonymity, saltlakecity2012 and kaykaykay 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavasana Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sorry to revive an old thread, but Yale's offer looks like this: Guaranteed $27,300 x5 years Option of 6th year at $27,300 through University Dissertation Fellowship Full tuition waiver (Valued at $35,500) Health Insurance (Includes teaching in the 3rd and 4th years) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltlakecity2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sorry to revive an old thread, but Yale's offer looks like this: Guaranteed $27,300 x5 years Option of 6th year at $27,300 through University Dissertation Fellowship Full tuition waiver (Valued at $35,500) Health Insurance (Includes teaching in the 3rd and 4th years) Do you know what the teaching load is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwnich1 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sorry to revive an old thread, but Yale's offer looks like this: Guaranteed $27,300 x5 years Option of 6th year at $27,300 through University Dissertation Fellowship Full tuition waiver (Valued at $35,500) Health Insurance (Includes teaching in the 3rd and 4th years) Probably the absolute best package I've seen. Congrats! TicToc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavasana Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Do you know what the teaching load is? I don't. I'm assuming 4 classes total (since that would be 1 per semester...) But it didn't say outright and I haven't been able to find info online. Probably the absolute best package I've seen. Congrats! Thank you! I'm really really excited, but now I have an even harder decision in front of me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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