"brilliant" vs. "very, very good" student - LOR issue

[splendora]

I'm studying classics and applying to grad schools soon enough.

I have a really weird problem. I recently asked a professor whom I'd taken two classes with and gotten A+'s in both to write me a reference for a student activities award. The award office took everything out of envelopes so they could staple stuff together and because I was burning with curiosity, I asked to see the letter. The prof had said in the letter that my work was "very, very good" but not "brilliant". Oh, to give some context, I have a 3.93 GPA cumulative and a 4.0 in Classics. I am not contesting what he said, because I focused on the exams more and on the essay less, but now it's making me wonder whether 1) I should use him as a reference for grad school, and 2) whether it is typical to make this distinction and state it so unequivocally, in which case even if I don't use him as a reference, some other prof will say the same thing anyway. I'm pretty certain I'm not brilliant; does brilliancy count for a lot? I mean, of course it does, but is it a death knell to my hopes of good schools if a prof says I'm not brilliant?

The problem with not using him is that 1) my school's Classics department is extremely, extremely small and 2) he's the only professor there who teaches in the area (Roman religion and art) that I want to further study. Naturally, I end up taking a bunch of classes with him and will do so over the next little while as well, and it will probably look weird that I'm not giving a reference from him since I take so many classes of his. I got a swift kick in the butt from seeing what he said about me, so I'm working extra hard on my papers this time, but first impressions are pretty permanent and I'm terrified his views about me won't change. Should I just focus on other professors?

Do letters of references from "assistant"/tenure-track (but not tenured yet) professors count?

[coho]

do you mean he literally wrote "not brilliant" on your application or that he just didn't mention that you are brilliant?

[jackassjim]

If he actually wrote "but not brilliant", I would definitely NOT use him as a referee. Only pricks would do that. Profs criticisms in LORs are notoriously veiled and understated. This one is not even that hidden and the adcomms will not have to do to much work to read between the lines. I'm sorry for you...

Do letters of references from "assistant"/tenure-track (but not tenured yet) professors count?

As long as it's tenure track, and not visiting or lecturer, yeah, you're ok.

[IvyHope]

Seems like there's a good likelihood that you're talking about a form that accompanied his letter, which asked him to check some box, and the selections were "brilliant" down to "idiot" or something. Most people will not check brilliant but for once or twice in their lifetime, a student that truly rocked their socks off.

Either way, this is why you don't read LOR, something that wasn't intended for your eyes ;-)

[jackassjim]

Seems like there's a good likelihood that you're talking about a form that accompanied his letter, which asked him to check some box, and the selections were "brilliant" down to "idiot" or something. Most people will not check brilliant but for once or twice in their lifetime, a student that truly rocked their socks off.

Either way, this is why you don't read LOR, something that wasn't intended for your eyes ;-)

Right, I had forgotten about those forms. Yeah, then it's fine, don't worry.

[splendora]

No, it was an actual proper letter of reference, and he wrote it directly on there. I can't remember the exact words since it was a few weeks earlier, but he said that I was a student who tried my best, that my work was not brilliant, but that my best was very, very good. I was extremely shocked when I read his letter, because though I knew my essay was not something I had worked on too much, I had gotten near-perfect marks from him, he knew my overall GPA, I asked him questions, I took an obvious interest in his courses, I was literally the last person to leave class most of the times since I would be sitting while everyone else was getting ready to leave and writing stuff down (lecture stuff) and he saw all that.

I guess even if I improve, he might make a comment about me not being a consistent student, which also looks bad.

I realize I should keep him out but I'm worried because like I said, he works in my area of interest and since I have some time left to go before I apply, I wanted to apply for undergraduate research projects under him (my university has undergrad research awards) and take more courses in the future by him, and perhaps do my Honors under him. In light of what he thinks of me, should I focus on some other prof to write my Honors thesis under etc?

Sorry for so many questions...

[Phonologist]

I would avoid this guy completely. Your work doesn't need to be "brilliant" for you to do well even in top programs; making the distinction between "very, very good" and "brilliant" is pointless and your professor had absolutely no reason to say that.

I guess even if I improve, he might make a comment about me not being a consistent student, which also looks bad.

Improving is a good kind of inconsistency. If this professor might twist that around and only say that you're an inconsistent student, then he's clearly out to get you or something.

[limeinthecoconut]

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[socialpsych]

I would avoid putting yourself in a position to have your grad school letters say "very, very good but not brilliant." LORs are really dumb in that (AFAIK) they are basically supposed to overflow with praise, and what differentiates fantastic from less-fantastic letters is just how specific and how strong the praise is.

I had a similar issue with my main academic advisor and his letter recommending me for the honors program. Do you know any grad students who work with this guy that you can talk to for advice? Knowing a few supportive grad students is really invaluable for the grad school application process in general. I happen to work closely with a grad student, and I resolved my LOR issue by talking to him and taking his advice--and I ended up with an extremely strong letter from my advisor. Also, would it be appropriate to ask the prof himself about the letter? A lot of people advised me to do that in my situation; I just didn't have the nerve. But in my case the prof basically handed me the letter to read, so your case may be different--in your case I am not sure it would be appropriate to let the guy know that you read it.

It is great that you are dealing with this so early in the process (I assume you are applying next fall?) so you have plenty of time to remedy the situation before you apply. In response to your question, yes, it will look bad if your grad school LOR specifically points out that you are "not brilliant." The good news is that you found out before the grad school application, and you may be able to fix it in time.

[wantaphd]

OP,

Please keep in mind that most graduate applicants usually waive the right to read their recommendation letters, mainly for the reasons you describe. It would not be in your best interest to let anyone know that you've actually read the letter. In my discipline, most professors won't even write you a letter if you don't waive the right to read it. With that said, there is no real way for you to approach this guy for tips or advice on what it would take for you to get from "very, very good" to "brilliant." The only thing you would probably accomplish is ensuring that he, nor anyone else for that matter, would ever write for you again.

I don't mean to be harsh, but there is an entire thread on reading letters of rec and the consequences that may occur from doing so. Protocols are extremely important in academia, even if they don't make much sense. But you can't actually expect anyone to write you an uninhibited letter of reference if they know that you'll just read it. It's all about builidng relationships, and if you don't think this particular professor has your best interests at heart, then he is not the person you want writing you a letter of recommendation.

If you don't believe me, try seaching/posting your question on the chronicle forum. Most of the forumites are in academia, and will give you unbiased advice on academic protocols.

[cardnav]

I also wonder if "brilliant" is something that you just wish that the Professor said and is just a phrase they don't use in the writing the application. Frankly, "very, very good" is a lot a better than some of the other phrasings you could have received. Also, I think you are putting a lot of weight on this one phrase, a recommendation is about the sum of its parts not just a line here and there. Finally, if you feel any hesitation in asking a professor for a recommendation, then you probably shouldn't be asking them.

[dragynally]

Since we've already had the debate about whether or not to read LORs I'm going to say its a dead issue...REALLY dead.

Now back to the problem at hand- I am so sorry that your prof said that. It seems really shady to me. But since you can't confront him for obvious reasons, I would suggest that you try to make connections w/ other profs. You need 3 LORs in most cases and it never hurts to have more then 3 profs to write them. It could also help to ignore what he said completely nand just be the best student you can be...cause I know very few "brilliant" people.

[miratrix]

It sounds like you're not applying to grad schools yet, and you still have a lot of time left to work with this professor, so no need to make that decision just yet. What I would do would be to ask him - not now, but when you're actually ready to apply - to sit down and talk about your work and your grad school plans. At that point, say what it is you'd like to do, ask his advice, and ask if he has any insight on the quality of your work, your chances, and your potential. If he says anything that sounds ambivalent, that's a sign that maybe you should ask someone else. If everything he says to your face is positive, ask if he would feel comfortable writing you a very strong recommendation (I actually asked this of my advisor because I could tell from her evaluation of my work in an independent study that she wouldn't put me in the "brilliant" box, and she was like "YES! Absolutely! Of course!", so I don't think it would be rude). If he's someone you trust not to lie to your face, that should give you an answer. I think you have time to work this out without letting anyone know you read the letter.

But man, I'm glad I didn't see mine. Ignorance is bliss.

[Tritonetelephone]

I've been told by many profs that the best letters of recs mention some weakness(es) the student has. So, it is possible he was trying to be helpful - but since he wasn't specific, it's hard to say. All I'm trying to say is, this experience doesn't mean he's an inherently bad recommender.

Like others said, since he's in your subfield, you may need him. He'll have connections. What I would do is sit down with him and ask him what he thinks you can do to improve yourself before grad school, then DO IT. Because this phrase:

though I knew my essay was not something I had worked on too much, I had gotten near-perfect marks from him, he knew my overall GPA...

has me concerned that you're not thinking like a grad student. Essays are not something to be taken lightly - and they mean SO much more than grades in grad school!!

[hepkath]

Don't toss the recommender; for all the reasons given above and something that you yourself suggested (other professors might be inclined to say similar things about you), the letter is a keeper. Especially if the professor is well-respected at his institution and/or in his field.

Brilliant is one of those words that professors (especially in the humanities and social sciences) use very sparingly and as a way of ear-marking the students they feel will one day become superstars in their field. (Another superlative in the "used sparingly" bin: stunning.) The distinction between "very, very good" and "brilliant" is an important one, however much we might resent and/or quibble over semantics.

Yes, admissions committees will look for "brilliant" students over "very, very good" ones, but the truth is that, as long as you're applying to programs well-suited to your qualifications, you'll be okay. If a superstar professor (or even one who is well-respected at his institution) says a student is "very, very good" though "not brilliant," this likely means that professor has saved the "brilliant" superlative for someone either applying at the same time as you or in the past few years. He can't over-use it because then his recommendations will hold less weight overall (committees will start to suspect that nothing he writes can be trusted). This is similar to what was stated above about LORs needing to include some weaknesses.

About the grades you received: do not ever assume that top marks in a class equal recognition of utter brilliance, or that slightly lower marks mean a less strong recommendation. Often, professors will assign grades within the context of their class that year; you were likely the best student in your class. Recommendation superlatives, however, are given within the context of a professor's entire career. You have no idea what kinds of students might have won him over in the past, nor how your work compares to theirs. Only he knows, and he is merely doing his part and being honest about that.

Another way that professors determine grades is within the context of what they feel is a student's full potential. If your professor awarded you an A+, it may also have been because he felt you were working as hard as you could work and performing as best as you could perform. (This seems to hold up in light of what you've said about his comments; your *best* work was "very, very good," which implies that he thinks he's seen your best work, whether or not this is actually true.)

Conversely, professors may dock the grades of a favorite student because, no matter how brilliant the work produced, they feel the student hasn't yet reached full potential. (This is, oddly enough, the best sort of recommendation to receive toward grad school.) In a friend's case, for instance, the professor whose recommendation is likely being weighed heaviest by grad schools never gave her anything higher than an A- in his courses. However, there is no question he went to bat for her with every superlative in his arsenal. She received A-'s because she was under-performing with regard to how he felt she might, give more time/less stress, perform (he explicitly told her this!), and because she definitely hasn't got everything figured out (not by a long shot). This doesn't mean she didn't also produce the best work he's seen in years.