What is most important: Course fit or Supervisor fit?

[Frozenroses]

What if you are accepted into two courses, lets call them X and Y.

X has a supervisor who wants to work with you, he reknowned for his area of expertise (which will soon be your expertise), and you are offered excellent funding. The catch is that course X is for a course which does not quite match your discipline and therefore the majority of the courses you will undertake, although relevent, are not THAT relevent. Further, you will have to teach in X when your MA and Undergrad focus was something else.

Y on the other hand is a course which is more multidisciplinary, offers the opportunity to TA in your main discipline and offers classes in courses which are very interlinked with your PhD focus. However, the supervisor there, while having a similar focus in research as your chosen research topic (my focus is quite specialized so finding anyone with any interest is hard), is not so well known and will push an area of your research that you are less interested in for your PhD focus and so therefore overall is not QUITE such a good match for the likely PhD focus. The funding at this school is also considerably less, and rumour has it, it takes an additional 1 to 2 years to complete the course.

What would you choose?

[ktel]

I would choose X. I suppose you're doing an MA, and I'm doing an MASc, but my program focuses mainly on research and the course work is done after the first year. So since you spend most of your time on research, I would take the better research fit

[abc123xtc]

That's really tough... However, it does seem that you will have more long term benefits from X.

[Frozenroses]

Sorry, I should add - this is for a PhD, at school X I will be teaching as a TA (but essentially running and teaching a class myself rather than typical TA seminar or marking duties) at school X for 3 yrs in a subject which is a bit 'alien' to me but manageable. Also, in terms of financing while school X has the best funding, if I manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat with a SSHRC award, school Y becomes the better funder as you are allowed both scholarship and SSHRC awards simultaneously. However I have to make a decision before knowing about SSHRC (will know if I'm forwarded but that's only half the battle) Ugh!

[ktel]

Teaching experience is hugely important if you want to be a professor eventually. Even if the subject is a bit alien you should be smart enough to pick up enough knowledge to be able to teach effectively. I know somebody who is teaching a calculus course right now who has basically had to reteach everything to himself as he forgot it all.

[Frozenroses]

Thank you ABC123xtc and Ktel for your advice! I really appreciate it - it is good to get some objective input. Ktel, you are right about teaching - and I'm sure its a more 'real world' situation (teaching a subject you don't really know) than I think!

[fuzzylogician]

Do you want to do mostly research or mosly teaching after you graduate? If research is your main goal, pick the better advisor. If you're interested in getting mostly a teaching job, maybe you want to choose the school that provides teaching experience in the area you'd like to teach in.

Edited February 18, 2012 by fuzzylogician

[Frozenroses]

it seems as if option X is ultimately the best choice all around as it covers/ticks the most boxes... both are good options, so I can't complain and am overall very happy.. They are both humanities courses, so it's not as clear cut as it might be with science... but fingers crossed I make the right decision

Edited February 19, 2012 by Frozenroses

[juilletmercredi]

Supervisor/research fit is FAR more important than course fit. As long as the courses will give you a reasonably strong foundation for research in your field, don't worry so much about them. Likely your program also has cross-registration agreements with another doctoral program and you may be able to take classes there.

Depending on your field, TA experience may not be "hugely" important. In the sciences, it's not. Usually SCs will expect you to have TA'ed a few classes - 1-3 - but won't expect you to have taught your own class or anything. This is probably different in the humanities, though. But in most fields, research is the most important thing and research is what's going to get you the job over teaching. Most places would pick a person with a great research background and little teaching experience in a related field over someone with extensive teaching experience, but not much research.

[Frozenroses]

Course X is an English PhD whereas my background is Film (I have a minor in English from my undergraduate degree but that is the extent to my english knowledge). I have never Ta'd before as I did my Postgrad in the UK and typically a Masters in the UK does not involve teaching (at least within the humanities). The course I am considering (X) requires you to teach rather than TA undergrad English... daunting.com - perhaps I am over thinking it?!

[ktel]

Teaching an English course does sound rather daunting. Perhaps you should inquire how well you would be supported through the process.

[Frozenroses]

Ktel - it does - especially when your grammer and spelling and punctuation is as bad as mine!

[sciencegirl]

@Frozenroses... when you say courses, do you mean disciplines? From what I gather, it sounds like you applied to both English PhD programs (to work with this one specific person) and then maybe also Film Studies programs? Your background/interests are in film? If this is the case and its entire disciplines (not just courses), I would strongly say go with Y. Entering an entirely different field just to work with one person who happens to overlap in two fields and your interests is a huge mistake I think.

[Frozenroses]

my apologies - the disciplines are English versus Cultural studies - so neither are technically film, but there is a great deal more cross over in the latter due to the interdisciplinary nature of the course. Ultimately I would like to still be working within film/culture. The course within the English department is called English but they like to think of themselves as English and Culture at PhD level. At undergraduate level the course is called English and Film studies so there is 'some' scope, or rather a possibility that I may be able to TA on a film course (it is just viewed as less likely, and if I can it may be only for 1-2 out of the 6 semesters in which I will be able to TA. Looking at other Universities it does appear that a lot of English departments either have a film element or are a combination of Film and English - so I have my fingers crossed that I am not making a drastic mistake - I am also relying on the fact that my research, conferences, publications and thesis within Film and Culture will assist in securing a (very allusive given the current job market) position somewhere. This is basically my rationale. There are only 3 people I can work with on my chosen area of research (that I have found): 2 of those are in English departments, and 1 is in Film (but they do not have a PhD level) so it would have to be through the Culture course. There were more in the States, but unfortunately I am also trying to maintain my Canadian residency so can only apply within Canada. Sorry, that's probably more background than you needed to know..

[sciencegirl]

That's actually very helpful.. I have a background in American studies/cultural studies so I know the complications well that you are talking about. Decades ago, before the advent of cultural/visual/film studies and the popularity of American studies, many departments just used English as the catch-all for studying those fields. However, I think now, these departments have gotten bigger and more prominent and less students who study in those fields now go into "English". I don't know how this would work in Canada though... and honestly, its been a few years since I considered going into the humanities at the phD level so I'm not sure what the state of things are now.

Have you tried posting this question in the "Interdisciplinary Forums" ? I know a lot of them have such similar struggles.. ie, between applying to English vs. American Studies/Cultural Studies programs... I think if you post there about your quandary, you should be really specific about the departments you are choosing between. Your initial post here sounds absolutely confusing (the course X and course Y thing).. rather, you should just ask if as a cultural studies person, would going into an English program be difficult -- I'm sure plenty of applicants there have mulled over the exact same question, and would provide better answers than here in this more general forum that might not get the Interdisciplinary folks involved.

[TakeruK]

I think it might be worth it to point out that due to North Americans not used to using the term "course" to mean discipline/major/department, the first few replies *may* have understood that you were applying to the same department at two different universities but X has coursework/classes that are not as good a fit as Y, but not as different as you later explain it to be!

I think that X may still be a better fit, but maybe not greatly better than Y as it would originally seem. If your supervisor is the only person in the department in your field of interest, there could be other issues, such as colloquia/invited speakers/seminars all focusing on aspects of English that are pretty much useless to your work. This could be frustrating if you were required to attend these as well as courses that are not related to your work! However, if the school where course X is offered also has departments which offer seminars or colloquia in your field then you might be able to attend these instead. Also, departments sometimes ask their students for suggestions on who you'd want to invite to speak to your department, so make sure your voice is heard! Just another thing to consider.

As for teaching, I think most Canadian universities have some resource centre for teaching and you can generally get free support from them in addition to whatever your department offers. I actually remember a lot of my humanities TAs/instructors pretty much learning the material as the same time as us. With so much variety in things covered, it's unlikely that our TA would have read the specific novel, essay, poem or anthology assigned so they were usually only one or two readings ahead of the class.

[coonskee]

Do you want to do mostly research or mosly teaching after you graduate? If research is your main goal, pick the better advisor. If you're interested in getting mostly a teaching job, maybe you want to choose the school that provides teaching experience in the area you'd like to teach in.

This has nothing to do with your post content, but I've seen you post dozens of times, and never looked at your picture with more than a glance. I have thought it was a picture of something that looks like Jar Jar Binks every single time you posted. I only just realized it's a cat. Perhaps I shouldn't be getting a PhD....

</off-topic>

[Frozenroses]

The department runs an undergraduate program in Film, so I think there might be some invited speakers for Film but that is definitely a factor I have not looked into yet - as is colloquia and seminars - thank you for raising these points. Thank you all for your advice and help. I actually feel as if I am playing a mental game of ping pong between the two courses... just as I decide one is 'right', I am swayed back toward the other. I think I'm going slightly mad!

Edited February 21, 2012 by Frozenroses

[fuzzylogician]

This has nothing to do with your post content, but I've seen you post dozens of times, and never looked at your picture with more than a glance. I have thought it was a picture of something that looks like Jar Jar Binks every single time you posted. I only just realized it's a cat. Perhaps I shouldn't be getting a PhD....

</off-topic>

Yeah, I would count that as social unawareness and claim that that is most definitely not a sign that you should not be getting a PhD. Evidence: I, and all my friends, who are still here.

[fanon_fanatic]

@frozenroses, to add to the confusion. I am also an interdisciplinary scholar, but am taking this as a strength. I would check to see what the requirements are to teach in each of your fields. For my fields, I have a masters in one discipline, which is what I need to teach in that discipline at community colleges. But I'll probably be getting my Ph.D in a different discipline, and then teaching in an interdisciplinary field like American Studies/Cultural Studies/Area Studies. I take it as a strength of my own application that I am qualified to teach in more than one discipline, and since I want to be in interdisciplinary fields when I graduate, I know that I can have degrees in multiple fields (courses) and be an asset to the program. I think what's most important is that you get to pursue the research you want to do. At least in the US, English Ph.Ds can end up teaching in a variety of places. In fact, two of my professors at my MA program in Communication were English Ph.Ds (both with film emphases actually!!). On the other hand, if the requirements at the places you want to teach are extremely stringent, then you might want to go with the program that prepares you for the career you want. But in my own experience, there's really nothing better than having an advisor that is supportive of your research and can mentor you into being the type of scholar you want to be. You might also see if there's flexibility in either of the programs in terms of coursework (seminars, lectures, classes you take)--can you get a minor in another field, or take seminars outside of the department? That may help you feel more comfortable if you decide to go with school X but want more background in the areas that school Y offers. My read on the way humanities is going is that being interdisciplinary is pretty much the "way of the future" and necessary for career survival, so I think your chances of success seem stronger at program X IF you're able to get the classes you need in the area you most want to teach in. Just my 2 cents.

[Frozenroses]

oooh noooo Fanon - you have added to the mix! And by mix I mean mess! I e-mailed the school which I decided NOT to attend yesterday, breathed a sigh of relief, and went to bed. I woke up today to find an e-mail from them saying that they are willing to match the funding offer from the other University (I am pretty sure I heard a crack as my skull opened and my brain plopped onto the floor when I read this). Obviously funding isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but the difference between the two universities was roughly $50K so it did impact my decision to a certain extent (how could it not). I had pretty much set my sights on being within the English department rather than Cultural studies and am now trying to work out what on earth to do! Someone hand me a gun. For what I want to achieve I am in such a lucky position, I know that - but it doesn't make this any easier!

[tillium]

I don't think the answer to the question is as easy as stepping back and making it about program vs supervisor fit. First, how do you know that after getting to know that supervisor they will still be a good fit? Second, how do you know you won't have any great supervisor options at the other program? Being distinguished is important but often the most successful your advisor is, the less time they are going to be able to invest in you. Also, there have to be other factors contributing to the difference between the two programs. things to consider.

[fanon_fanatic]

@frozenroses, what a wonderful problem to have!! Are either of the programs pressing you to make a decision right away? Because if not, I would take a couple weeks to just sit on the decision--don't think too much about it, just let it lie for a few days, and then come back to it. That always helps me to see things more clearly. I've also made a list of pros and cons about the programs I've been accepted to, and I've listed everything from coursework, cities the schools are in, financial aid packages, people I want to work with, placement rates (if available), and anything else I could think of. I agree with @tillium that thinking more broadly will help you make a choice, especially when it comes to advisors. You want to make sure your advisor is both available and enjoys a solid reputation in the field.

Good luck with your decision, and congratulations on being so wanted by two programs!! Take some time to think if possible, it will probably help you a lot to step away for a bit.

[EvilFabio]

I agree with caffeinated. But my first impulse is go with X. Seems more solid.