who else is still waiting on the majority of their schools?

[marlowe]

Sorry, I meant that it IS a car city, as in hard to get around without one. As for applying to a safety, it's not that I didn't want to go, I researched and chose mine for a reason, but when people around you are going to prestigious schools and you know you will graduate and have even harder of a time on the job market, it can be a bit depressing to contemplate. But I read on here, actually, that applying to just top 20 schools is a good way to get shut out and, as I knew this would be my last application season, I wanted to broaden my horizons. I just wish now I'd kept the safety school but applied to another five in the top 30. Oh, well...I can only say I was cheap and didn't relish shelling out application fees, score reports and transcript costs to more than my chosen 7.

Oh, definitely. I would never live in Greensboro for that exact reason.

I feel the same way that you did about only applying to top twenty schools for fear of job market repercussions. However, I resigned myself to possibly getting shut out and trying again and again until I was successful.

I completely understand, however, that an applicant over thirty would not want to continue working dead end jobs year after year in order to continue applying.

[marlowe]

Also, Yank, have you considered teaching Community College? There are no certification requirements, and while the money isn't great and you'd probably be teaching primarily freshman composition, it is definitely preferable (in my opinion) to teaching high school freshman.

[crystalleem]

Yank - just out of curiosity, you said this is your second year applying. Did you apply to the same schools the second year around? Also, high school seniors are about the same as college freshmen, so if you can get those, the pay/benefits might be better.

[GodzillaGrad]

Also, Yank, have you considered teaching Community College? There are no certification requirements, and while the money isn't great and you'd probably be teaching primarily freshman composition, it is definitely preferable (in my opinion) to teaching high school freshman.

This is an option I'm considering as well.

[Starlajane]

Just thought that I would chime in that I am still waiting to hear from six programs (out of nine); I've received two official rejections, one interview and one acceptance with funding notification. I assume that at least two of the programs are implicit rejections b/c others have posted both acceptances and waitlist notifications from them.

The day I got my acceptance, I nearly exploded with emotion: all I could think was, "OMG, no matter what, I'm actually going now."

None of the schools that I've applied to are safety schools; I want to attend each of them, for different but similar reasons.

[Stately Plump]

At this point, I am planning on going for round 2, as I've become discouraged by this whole process and don't have much confidence in the schools I have yet to hear from. I wish I would have found this forum about 3 months ago because I think my SoP would have been completely different and much more specific than it is. I have a 4.0 GPA, so I feel good about that, but my degree isn't from a famous university, so I wonder now if I made a mistake going there.

Additionally, I question my SoP. Should I put something down that I know I don't want to study just because it might get me in? Is it ok to feel like a fraud? Or, do I just stick with what I love and somehow make a university feel comfortable in taking on someone with my interests?

I got my BA from a small, catholic school that is barely a step above community college (I shouldn't say that; I've had a great experience, and everyone has been very, very helpful). But my point is that it is not a well known school at all. Also, none of the professors who wrote me letters are "big name" at all; two went to Maryland and one is an untenured philosophy professor who got his degree at Temple. But I know they were all really, really solid recs, because all of these professors have told me to my face that I belong in graduate school.

I just read what I just wrote, and I sound like a pretentious asshole I don't mean to come off that way, I was just hoping to offer a glimmer of hope by saying that my university was unknown and my professors were unknown.

The day I got my acceptance, I nearly exploded with emotion: all I could think was, "OMG, no matter what, I'm actually going now."

None of the schools that I've applied to are safety schools; I want to attend each of them, for different but similar reasons.

Both of these sentences are very true. I agree (<--- sunglasses for true-statement solidarity)

Edited February 28, 2012 by Stately Plump

[lolopixie]

I'm still waiting on 5 out of 6 programs to report. I've only heard back from one school, and it was a rejection. This is also my second go at it. I've been able to hold down the anxiety until today. I know that, historically, Miami (FL) reports the last day of February, so I think that has really spiked the anxiety. I was a hot mess at work today. Running outside to check my phone at every chance to see if there was an email in there. Alas, there was not. The good news is, there has not been any responses posted to the results board yet.

My plan B is to continue on at the bank I work at, and be highly medicated for the rest of my life to ward off the severe depression that is sure to ensue if I don't get in this year.

[crystalleem]

I got my BA from a small, catholic school that is barely a step above community college (I shouldn't say that; I've had a great experience, and everyone has been very, very helpful). But my point is that it is not a well known school at all. Also, none of the professors who wrote me letters are "big name" at all; two went to Maryland and one is an untenured philosophy professor who got his degree at Temple. But I know they were all really, really solid recs, because all of these professors have told me to my face that I belong in graduate school.

This is good to hear. One of my LoR's was from an adjunct professor. My other professors graduated from Buffalo and Washington U in St. Louis. One of my writers did tell me it would be good to get a LoR from a certain professor in the department who he called "the only big name in the dept." She's an Early Modernist who went to Yale and Amherst, but I hadn't taken any classes with her when putting my app package together. If I have to go to round 2, I know she would write for me now.

I know, without a doubt, that all my letters were strong. So...the problem probably is me (fit and focus).

[eatriceorgohome]

Still waiting on 9 of 12. Best of luck to everyone - both in getting into your desired programs and keeping yourself occupied until decisions are made.

[GodzillaGrad]

I'm still waiting on 5 out of 6 programs to report. I've only heard back from one school, and it was a rejection. This is also my second go at it. I've been able to hold down the anxiety until today. I know that, historically, Miami (FL) reports the last day of February, so I think that has really spiked the anxiety. I was a hot mess at work today. Running outside to check my phone at every chance to see if there was an email in there. Alas, there was not. The good news is, there has not been any responses posted to the results board yet.

My plan B is to continue on at the bank I work at, and be highly medicated for the rest of my life to ward off the severe depression that is sure to ensue if I don't get in this year.

I hear that. Second season. Snuck a quick peak at the phone between customers at the bank I also work at only to misread an email and thought I got into the school in the city I currently live in. The heights and depths of that emotional swing as I realized it said "not recommend" were enough to literally take my breath away. All of which compounded by the fact that if I got into this particular school I would be able to continue to live with my partner. Jerk smartphones and small, deceptive fonts.

[Ryzhaya]

I'm still waiting on 6 of 8 schools, and for funding information on my one admission, and AAAAAAAAGHHHH GOD I JUST WANT TO KNOOOOOW ALREADY!!!

Ahem. Pardon me. As you were.

[Stately Plump]

So...the problem probably is me (fit and focus).

This isn't necessarily true. Keep in mind that every school is literally getting hundreds of applicants, and dozens and dozens of them are overly qualified to attend. Most schools probably end up with about 30-40 students they really want to take, but they only have room for 10-15ish. What they do, at that point, is throw all the applications down a stair case, and whichever ones land face up, they take.*

*Not a true story, but probably close.

[yank in the M20]

Well, here's to hoping that we all end up where we want to be!

I would choose teaching high school over community college composition both because teaching comp is not my thing. I know it would be done alongside the lit if I taught high school, but that's the key word, alongside, and because working as an adjunct can be a hard life--paid by the hour, no health insurance...And, really, what's the difference between a high school senior and community college freshman? If anything, and I know these are vast generalizations I'm about to make, you'll likely have more kids keen on the subject in high school that will go on to a four-year school or won't be needing basic comp classes if they go to a community college for financial reasons.

My first application season I was really out of the loop about what percentage of people get into PhD programs because it's so different here in England so I applied to Northwestern, Brown and WashU and was rejected by all three. I also used a writing sample from my dissertation different from the time period my SOP focused on, and this was the feedback I got re. my rejection. They want to see how I engage with the field I'm planning to work in. Since our MAs here are only a year, we choose our dissertation topic only four months into our MA and I changed my mind once I finished my coursework and began my dissertation. So I applied to all new Unis----and created a new writing sample and presented at conferences and rethought, revamped and rewrote my SOP. It meant studying 15 plus hours a week while working full-time and I just don't want to do that again next year.

For those of you that reapply, based on the boards alone, not my own experience because I haven't been accepted anywhere (yet?), I'd say don't bother retaking the GREs unless your results were abysmal--I had heard it didn't make sense to do so and a lot of people started saying they wished they hadn't wasted that time; they could have spent more on SOP or writing sample. I also heard that a prof you worked closely with is always better than a big name, but I don't know if that holds up results-wise.

Shame that you didn't get into Pitt, GodzillaGrad--seems like it would have been a great fit with your interests. I thought it was for mine theoretically, but it was so American-focused that I wasn't sure it would pan out.

[crystalleem]

On 2/28/2012 at 2:03 AM, yank in the M20 said:

I also used a writing sample from my dissertation different from the time period my SOP focused on, and this was the feedback I got re. my rejection. They want to see how I engage with the field I'm planning to work in.

This is something I wonder about, as well. I was advised by a couple of people that unless the program stated a preference, you should submit the piece of writing that is your best. So, that's what I did, and my writing sample only (very) loosely connected to my SoP (in that part of my focus lies in women's studies). But, my writing sample was on a postmodern Southern novel, which couldn't be further from my interests.

Unfortunately, the MA program I am in is very small, so even though it's a 2 year program, I have only been able to take 1 class in the area of my interest, and we take a comp exam but have no master's thesis.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Does the writing sample absolutely have to connect to the SoP?

[anxious_aspirant]

This is something I wonder about, as well. I was advised by a couple of people that unless the program stated a preference, you should submit the piece of writing that is your best. So, that's what I did, and my writing sample only (very) loosely connected to my SoP (in that part of my focus lies in women's studies). But, my writing sample was on a postmodern Southern novel, which couldn't be further from my interests.

Unfortunately, the MA program I am in is very small, so even though it's a 2 year program, I have only been able to take 1 class in the area of my interest, and we take a comp exam but have no master's thesis.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this? Does the writing sample absolutely have to connect to the SoP?

I echo this question. I referenced my writing sample in my SoP and used it to transition into the more contemporary concerns I'd like to explore in future graduate study, but the connections are conceptual/theoretical, not era- or content-based. I do wonder if this was a problem. I submitted a supplementary writing sample about a postmodern text as a reinforcement, but of course, can't expect all schools to read past the initial sample when you consider the numbers. On the other hand, I can see the value in showing a range of expertise, seeing as I'm one of those without an undergraduate major in English.

I'd be interested to hear from people who have been accepted about how their application materials "fit" together.

[ComeBackZinc]

This isn't necessarily true. Keep in mind that every school is literally getting hundreds of applicants, and dozens and dozens of them are overly qualified to attend. Most schools probably end up with about 30-40 students they really want to take, but they only have room for 10-15ish.

Right.

There's a narrow path to walk on this board, between being appropriately supportive and being completely honest. Fit absolutely is super important. But "fit" is a deliberately nebulous term. And as much as we all want our focus to appear unique, schools probably aren't parsing our definitions of that focus as closely as we like. We talk a lot about how problems like grades and GREs can be mitigated, which is good, because they definitely can be. But at times that talk goes overboard to the point where we're acting as if they don't matter at all, when they do. And as SP said, schools are rejected literally hundreds of immensely qualified applicants. In that context, even problems that are considered minor can make the difference.

I'm also glad that the perception of BA/MA school competitiveness has come up. Because it does matter. Again, we tend to minimize it because people can and have gotten into top-flight programs with noncompetitive BAs and MAs. But look-- that stuff does matter. They do care and it is a factor. I think people don't want to talk about it as much because it's something that we truly can't change. And I certainly am someone who has dealt with that dynamic; my BA school was open admissions and my MA school was not very competitive at all. I'm not saying this stuff at all to discourage; quite the opposite. When people are taking stock of where to go from here and trying to evaluate themselves, these issues need to come into play.

[anxious_aspirant]

Right.

There's a narrow path to walk on this board, between being appropriately supportive and being completely honest. Fit absolutely is super important. But "fit" is a deliberately nebulous term. And as much as we all want our focus to appear unique, schools probably aren't parsing our definitions of that focus as closely as we like. We talk a lot about how problems like grades and GREs can be mitigated, which is good, because they definitely can be. But at times that talk goes overboard to the point where we're acting as if they don't matter at all, when they do. And as SP said, schools are rejected literally hundreds of immensely qualified applicants. In that context, even problems that are considered minor can make the difference.

I'm also glad that the perception of BA/MA school competitiveness has come up. Because it does matter. Again, we tend to minimize it because people can and have gotten into top-flight programs with noncompetitive BAs and MAs. But look-- that stuff does matter. They do care and it is a factor. I think people don't want to talk about it as much because it's something that we truly can't change. And I certainly am someone who has dealt with that dynamic; my BA school was open admissions and my MA school was not very competitive at all. I'm not saying this stuff at all to discourage; quite the opposite. When people are taking stock of where to go from here and trying to evaluate themselves, these issues need to come into play.

To amend my earlier post, I worry about ALL of this. The most annoying part, perhaps, being that though test scores can surely keep you out, they don't really get you in. The results board consistently shows people getting in with significantly lower scores and GPAs than mine (not to sound bitchy - because I know I have more significant weak points in other areas, namely the SoP). And as a teacher myself, I'll be the first to admit that standardized test scores are a poor measure of skill. Yet, something in me wants them to mean something, because I did work for them. Also the idea that the reputation of your school is somehow a measure of the quality of work you did there - this isn't something I want to think about, but alas, must. It's not that my undergrad institution has a poor reputation, but it isn't so widely known - perhaps not a coincidence that the most positive response I've received is from a school not too far (geographically) from my undergrad?

Have any of you admitted people or current students discussed these things with actual professors or DGS at your schools?? Would love to hear an "official" point of view. Sometimes I think my own professors were too encouraging, letting the fact that they know me and my work overshadow the adcomm's outsider perspective.

[crystalleem]

To amend my earlier post, I worry about ALL of this. The most annoying part, perhaps, being that though test scores can surely keep you out, they don't really get you in. The results board consistently shows people getting in with significantly lower scores and GPAs than mine (not to sound bitchy - because I know I have more significant weak points in other areas, namely the SoP). And as a teacher myself, I'll be the first to admit that standardized test scores are a poor measure of skill. Yet, something in me wants them to mean something, because I did work for them. Also the idea that the reputation of your school is somehow a measure of the quality of work you did there - this isn't something I want to think about, but alas, must. It's not that my undergrad institution has a poor reputation, but it isn't so widely known - perhaps not a coincidence that the most positive response I've received is from a school not too far (geographically) from my undergrad?

Have any of you admitted people or current students discussed these things with actual professors or DGS at your schools?? Would love to hear an "official" point of view. Sometimes I think my own professors were too encouraging, letting the fact that they know me and my work overshadow the adcomm's outsider perspective.

My graduate advisor basically told me that I shouldn't apply anywhere that gives a score requirement. Her feeling was that if they give a number, they won't consider you if you don't have that number, so I did follow her guidance on that one.

She also told me that today it doesn't really matter where you get your PhD, it matters what you do with it afterwards. I don't know if that's really the case, and I also don't know if that holds the same for where someone gets their MA.

Unfortunately, we are a culture that buys into name brands. I have a hard time believing (all matters being equal) that I would get accepted over someone who went to Yale, for instance. But, here I am with an MA from a relatively new and unknown MA program. I wanted to get my MA but, at the time, couldn't move to do so. I'm happy with the program and my advisors, but I feel like adcoms are looking at my transcripts and thinking, "does she really think an MA from _____ is acceptable?" Maybe I'm just paranoid

[anxious_aspirant]

Maybe I'm just paranoid

No need to be ashamed of THAT in this forum . I'm just glad you guys show that there are others being equally irrational, so that I don't have to get meta-paranoid about my own paranoia.

[lolopixie]

Unfortunately, we are a culture that buys into name brands. I have a hard time believing (all matters being equal) that I would get accepted over someone who went to Yale, for instance.

If that Yale graduate is just banking on their school name and has not published, shown excellence in teaching, prepped for interviews, and networked to get great letters of recommendation, then you would be in ahead of them. Remember, Yale/Harvard/Brown/Berkley etc etc etc don't place all of their students either. I know we wouldn't think someone would be dumb enough to rely on school name to get them a job, but I'm rootin for the tards to be graduating the year I'm applying for jobs

[Stately Plump]

Have any of you admitted people or current students discussed these things with actual professors or DGS at your schools?? Would love to hear an "official" point of view.

I've talked to some professors at the schools I was accepted/wait-listed an they all mentioned my writing sample. I got an email from one professor and she was like, "I read your writing sample and I thought it was really great." I don't say this to brag, but to point out that schools really are reading these things; I think we have a tendency to focus on "fit" of SoP, GRE scores, grades, undergrad/MA institution, but your writing sample is the best way for departments to get an idea of the type of student they're getting. If you went to an unknown institution and someone else went to Yale, your writing sample will prove to adcomms that you are just as good as the student from Yale.

My advisor was upfront with me; she said the lack of name from my undergrad might be a drawback, which is why I should focus on the writing sample most. I revised my senior capstone paper (a bit shorter than a senior thesis), which initially took me 4 months to write. I probably spent another 3 months editing and revising, sometimes cutting whole sections and sometimes completely rewriting others. I was very, very blessed to have professors who were willing to read and reread it, but ultimately, I think it's what got me in.

Again, I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging . I'm just hoping to offer some advice on things we can do to make our applications stronger.

Good luck to anyone still waiting!

+++ vibes

Edited February 29, 2012 by Stately Plump

[crystalleem]

My advisor was upfront with me; she said the lack of name from my undergrad might be a drawback, which is why I should focus on the writing sample most. I revised my senior capstone paper (a bit shorter than a senior thesis), which initially took me 4 months to write. I probably spent another 3 months editing and revising, sometimes cutting whole sections and sometimes completely rewriting others. I was very, very blessed to have professors who were willing to read and reread it, but ultimately, I think it's what got me in

I'm pretty sure my writing sample is good. I spent a year on that paper because it was in the process of getting peer reviewed to be published as part of conference proceedings. So on top of having my own professors edit, I had the "peer reviewers" giving me feedback on it, as well. I probably did serious revisions about 10 times over the course of a year. BUT, it was not focused on my interests established in my SoP. I chose (based on recommendations of others) to submit my best piece of writing. I wonder if that was a good idea.

[Jbarks]

I've talked to some professors at the schools I was accepted/wait-listed an they all mentioned my writing sample. I got an email from one professor and she was like, "I read your writing sample and I thought it was really great." I don't say this to brag, but to point out that schools really are reading these things; I think we have a tendency to focus on "fit" of SoP, GRE scores, grades, undergrad/MA institution, but your writing sample is the best way for departments to get an idea of the type of student they're getting. If you went to an unknown institution and someone else went to Yale, your writing sample will prove to adcomms that you are just as good as the student from Yale.

My advisor was upfront with me; she said the lack of name from my undergrad might be a drawback, which is why I should focus on the writing sample most. I revised my senior capstone paper (a bit shorter than a senior thesis), which initially took me 4 months to write. I probably spent another 3 months editing and revising, sometimes cutting whole sections and sometimes completely rewriting others. I was very, very blessed to have professors who were willing to read and reread it, but ultimately, I think it's what got me in.

Again, I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging . I'm just hoping to offer some advice on things we can do to make our applications stronger.

Good luck to anyone still waiting!

+++ vibes

I had a similar response from one of my POIs. She said she was interested in my research approach and thought my writing sample to be strong. She said she'd thought I'd be a great fit for the program.

I agree that the WS is such a essential part of the application. I knew the adcom would read through it, but I had no idea they would pass it to other professors. Also, for this program, in addition to all my others, I did mention specific POIs in my SOP. In my acceptance letter, it specifically stated how two out of three POIs I mentioned were really interested in working with me-- one of whom emailed me later in the day. So this is also a vote for mentioning the POI!

[Stately Plump]

Also, for this program, in addition to all my others, I did mention specific POIs in my SOP. In my acceptance letter, it specifically stated how two out of three POIs I mentioned were really interested in working with me-- one of whom emailed me later in the day. So this is also a vote for mentioning the POI!

I did the same, and had a similar experience. The prof I mentioned emailed me after I was accepted, telling me she was excited to work with me.

So, +1

[bigrelief]

In response to anxious_aspirant and crystalleem, I've been accepted to some programs I'm really excited about, and I can weigh in and say that my writing sample and my SOP were very closely related. My SOP established my general areas of interest, illustrated by texts I've found particularly influential or useful. Then I talked about my honors thesis (which was related to those fields of interests and which I related to the other texts I mentioned). Then the writing sample was a section of the honors thesis in which I examined an extension of these ideas, and solved one of the problems I mentioned in the SOP. I also spent a LONG time revising that particular section, so it ended up really being one of my best pieces of writing.

I don't know if this is what got me in, but I suspect it helped--basically all the elements of the app are reinforcing each other and giving a clear picture of what I'm interested in and how I write about it.