Where to even start for the next round?

[Imogene]

So after a couple of wait lists, and no acceptances, I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I've been thinking more about 'round two' than the less likely chance that I get admitted to one of my 'wait' programs, and, honestly, I don't even know where to start.

- contact departments that rejected me for feedback?

- research new programs to apply to (I thought I found good fits this time!)?

- write a new writing sample?

- re-take GREs (this one is something that I don't think I should waste time on, but maybe I'm wrong)?

- ask my LOR profs to help me figure out where I went wrong?

I know that I could/should do all these things, but I'm paralyzed by trying to figure out where to focus my energy and time (because it's limited, as I'm not in academia now but rather the 'real world' of 9-5 and lots of responsibilities).

I figure there are many others in similar spots, so thought I'd try to get us a thread to share thoughts and advice.

[anxious_aspirant]

So after a couple of wait lists, and no acceptances, I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I've been thinking more about 'round two' than the less likely chance that I get admitted to one of my 'wait' programs, and, honestly, I don't even know where to start.

- contact departments that rejected me for feedback?

- research new programs to apply to (I thought I found good fits this time!)?

- write a new writing sample?

- re-take GREs (this one is something that I don't think I should waste time on, but maybe I'm wrong)?

- ask my LOR profs to help me figure out where I went wrong?

I know that I could/should do all these things, but I'm paralyzed by trying to figure out where to focus my energy and time (because it's limited, as I'm not in academia now but rather the 'real world' of 9-5 and lots of responsibilities).

I figure there are many others in similar spots, so thought I'd try to get us a thread to share thoughts and advice.

Is there anyone else out there who feels they would find it difficult to write a new sample simply because they don't have university resources anymore? I can't imagine doing the research necessary for such a paper, even if the end product would be a better fit, if I can't access critical sources through my undergrad/grad institutions. (Or maybe I'm in the minority applying 2 years after graduation).

I'm definitely going to contact my wait-list school when all is said and done, that way I can get feedback from them. I figure that won't be too soul crushing - there was something they liked about my application - but I can figure out what it lacked or what might give me an edge next time.

I'm thinking of going to a different professor for SoP and writing sample feedback, that way I'll be able to see if there's any major difference in the way two people (who know my work well) respond to the application materials. I think I relied to heavily on one person's feedback this time around, thinking he was the professor with the most experience and had seen me as a student in many courses.

[lolopixie]

Here is what I did to prep for round 2: I have one rejection and one implicit rejection so take it for what it's worth...I'm still pending program decisions though; however, my friend did the same thing and he got in his top choice program and he was rejected across the board last year too (we didn't even get waitlisted).

01. Retook the GREs - mind you I had very poor GRE scores and was advised last year that this was a major weakness on my application

02. Completely rewrote my SOP (I think I kept 2 sentences from the one I used last year)

03. Rewrote my writing sample - I no longer had access to University resources under my username because I graduated, so I reached out to one of the people in my department and asked her if I could use hers because I didn't have access and explained why I needed it. She gave me her info within minutes of the email.

04. Looked at different programs for fit - last year I thought I had good fit programs, but maybe not.

05. Reached out to programs to ask them what my weaknesses were - only got a few responses and they said GRE scores limited my acceptance (some schools will give you a generic we had a lot of applicants blablabla you were good but we are limited blablabla)

06. I kept 2/3 of my recommenders and reached out to the department head, who I had built a better relationship with by this time, and changed one of my recommenders

07. Looked at the dissretation topics of recent graduates from the PhD programs to see if they were losing people in my field to see if I might be competitive or if they needed people in my field - this may have been for nothing, but it was something else to look at.

08. Had more people review my SOP and writing sample. Get on the board early, get some friends, and people are usually cool with helping you in exchange for your help with their own sample.

I did reapply to 2 programs this year that I applied to last year and am waiting on responses from them still. Also, keep in mind that location should not be much of a factor in where you are applying. So what if you move to a small town that you never thought you would go to - you're going to spend the next 5ish years in the library anyways. Don't get me wrong, I did not apply to any frozen tundra areas because I know that I just can't handle weather in areas like say, Wisconsin, but I kept my mind a lot more open this year on that front too.

Hope that helps a little, and I hope you don't have to go through this again because it does suck and the anxiety is so much worsh than the 1st time. I'm crossing fingers for you that you get accepted off one of those waitlists!!! Good luck!

Edit note: I'm also in the "real world" working full-time in a non-academic job. You can do this stuff, but you will have to be extremely committed and sacrafice your personal life for a bit. It took me until August to allow my haze of full out rejection to clear and to begin working on this stuff again, but then I was full throttle for about 5 months on this stuff.

Edited March 3, 2012 by lolopixie

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

I commend you both for already thinking about this stuff. I am placing a ridiculous amount of hope into my single waitlist, mostly because part of me feels like it HAS to pull through. For my own sanity, for the world to be right, ect.

Clearly, I have some delusions.

But, this might be taking things back a step even further, but how did you two (and anyone else who feels like replying, of course!) know you wanted to do a second round of applications? It seems like a lot of people in on TGC have done multiple rounds. While going to grad school and being a professor is absolutely my dream, if things don't work out for me this round I don't know if I could or should do it again. Maybe I'm just questioning my worth as a scholar-- I know I'm good at what I do, but I also know I'm not an academic rockstar. Is this area only for the rockstars among us? Is it truly that selective? And I just better off trying to win the lottery?

[Imogene]

@lolo thank you so much- so generous with info. I'm pulling for you and those final decisions you're still waiting on.

@fiona I want to digest your post and reply more later, but I wanted to say that I was *just* thinking that this whole thing seems as ridiculous as the lottery. And, yes, I play that too (come on lucky numbers! Come on magic SOP!).

[AhabsAdmissionLetter]

Imogene, a professor this week told me that since it was impossible for an adcom to read 400+ apps, at some schools a secretary or grad assistant makes initial cuts on something quantifiable, like GRE or GPA. So, while working on a SOP is a great idea, there is a likelihood that it will not be reviewed if the school does not approach candidate review holistically. Many rejection letters say something about careful consideration of everything you presented, but it could very well be the case that they only carefully reviewed 100 of 700 candidates and never looked at your file. I do not have an answer for you other than get your scores up, but then if that's what everyone else is doing too, then what becomes sufficient? Probably the personal statement and writing sample, since LORs are going to be compelling for the majority of applicants. I've been tempted to call programs and ask what metric they use to make their first cut. If you uncover that they only want someone with a 3.8 GPA or above and you have a 3.7, then you know not to bother wasting the time or money to apply. If I were to give you a recommendation it would be to try your best and revise what you can when you can, because then you can look at yourself in the mirror and have no regrets.

[thestage]

Is there anyone else out there who feels they would find it difficult to write a new sample simply because they don't have university resources anymore? I can't imagine doing the research necessary for such a paper, even if the end product would be a better fit, if I can't access critical sources through my undergrad/grad institutions. (Or maybe I'm in the minority applying 2 years after graduation).

Less of a problem if your undergrad school doesn't actually have access to anything!

But there are a ton of public libraries with respectable database access at least, and I hear most of them also carry books.

[anxious_aspirant]

But, this might be taking things back a step even further, but how did you two (and anyone else who feels like replying, of course!) know you wanted to do a second round of applications? It seems like a lot of people in on TGC have done multiple rounds. While going to grad school and being a professor is absolutely my dream, if things don't work out for me this round I don't know if I could or should do it again. Maybe I'm just questioning my worth as a scholar-- I know I'm good at what I do, but I also know I'm not an academic rockstar. Is this area only for the rockstars among us? Is it truly that selective? And I just better off trying to win the lottery?

The short answer is that I don't know. I'm wondering if I'm deluded for even applying. The thing that gets me down, too, (drawing on Ahab's post) is that I do have the GPA and GRE scores that I'd hope would make the initial cuts, if schools have them (not sure about the subject test, but I didn't feel badly about the score - the averages for it are so low that the percentile sounds okay even when the actual number doesn't). Yet, with some schools, I very clearly was part of their first "round" of rejections, considering the timing. I can only imagine that they saw I didn't have an official undergrad English major and cut me out of the running, or that the SOP was that bad. I'm more confident in my writing sample, based on professors' feedback, but the thought I'm left with is that I'm deluded about all of it, and maybe even my professors are too.

The round 2 thing is just me thinking about maybe only applying to my wait-list school again, that way I can be more hopeful and spare the emotional and financial burden of applying elsewhere. Or I could do my (second) MA, this time in English rather than English education, and apply again after that. But if the odds are still so bad, even with an MA, I'll have backed myself into a corner in terms of my financial future, so that option sounds pretty crappy, too.

I guess planning for "next time" gives me something to do. This year, thinking that I might be going back to school in the fall has made it a tad easier to deal with my job and its dead-end-ness; so, considering abandoning ship (which I totally am considering), is upsetting.

Fiona, I'm sure you've said this elsewhere and I just don't remember - are you applying directly from undergrad, from the working world, from grad school, etc?

[Venti White Choc. Mocha]

HOLY-GOD you got waitlisted and you don't even have your MA!? I think you are doing exactly what you are meant to. Getting on the WL should have proved that to you. I guarantee you there are people applying with MAs that didn't get waitlisted. Hang in there.

[Stately Plump]

I don't say this to discourage anyone, but actually just the opposite: at some point, it really just comes down to luck. Every single school is getting hundreds of applications, which means, probably, dozens of qualified applicants. My guess is that many programs end up with something like 30-40 students they would LOVE to take.

At that point, there is really nothing you can do to sway their decision. It is purely luck. Maybe they already took someone from your state, so they want someone else from a different state? Maybe they already have a few girls, and they want some more guys? Maybe they already have someone from a large state school, and they want someone from a smaller liberal arts college? Maybe the person you mentioned in your SOP, though they would really like to work with you, already has 3-4 students, and someone else mentioned a different POI, who doesn't have as many students? Maybe they already took a student just out of undergrad, so they want an older, less traditional student (or vice-versa)?

Unfortunately, when you have 40 students you want, but only 12 you can take, it ends up coming down to this nit-picky stuff that we have no control over. Like I said, I hope this doesn't discourage people, but rather helps to realize that we ARE good enough, but we need a little luck, too.

So, good luck for everyone!

[anxious_aspirant]

*Apologies for my continuous and unhelpful rants in threads of this nature*

Felt the need to say so since the "rejection" conversation induces this complainy form of logorrhea from me.

Great to hear all the feedback and compare notes, though. Thanks, all.

[anxious_aspirant]

Also, mini-poll: low long have your statements of purpose been? (To see if I'm the only oddball who habitually cannot keep to a given page limit...)

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

Anxious_Aspirant--I'm more or less applying right out of undergrad. I took a year off to apply and hoped to get a job doing something professionally helpful, but instead I worked at a fish market and as a server. I think this might be leading to my uncertainty, because while I know I want to go to grad school, I'm pretty uncertain about everything else. I see what you mean about planning round two to distract yourself from what you're doing now, since it's not what you want to do. I guess that's part of my issue--applying distracted me from my situation, but I know I can't fall back into my situation. I don't make any money, but I also know I can't get a job in my hometown (notorious for not having job openings for local grads without STEM degrees). So, it's a little catch-22 ish, and a whole different kind of stress/worry.

Venti White Choc. Mocha--I don't know if you're addressing me, but if so, thank you! I know people with MAs are struggling and I feel very, very honored and humbled that I was even waitlisted this round. Part of me thinks someone else has my exact name and they sent the notification to the wrong person.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Fiona Thunderpaws

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

Also, mini-poll: low long have your statements of purpose been? (To see if I'm the only oddball who habitually cannot keep to a given page limit...)

Page and a half, single spaced. Approximately.... 800 words? My mentor advised me to keep it short and sweet.

[Grunty DaGnome]

I am in the same boat. Personally, I think retaking the GREs is a huge waste of time if they were anything over 70%ile. I think it's all about writing sample and statement.

I agree it is hard to rewrite or retool a sample without university resources. I'll admit, I'm hoarding PDFs of good journals on anything remotely related to my 3-4 papers that could be reworked.

I'm planning to attend conferences during the down time, to talk out my favorite papers, see if I can get perspective. If a rewrite comes about naturally that way, I'll follow it through, but I'm not going back to the deep recesses of my mind again.

Oh, also I'm adding a few more programs and taking away a few.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Grunty DaGnome

[LivePoetry123]

I'm still waiting on Oregon, but I'm pretty much in this thread because I don't have much hope of getting an acceptance after all the rejections~~

Anyway, just wanted to really encourage you all to ask for feedback on your applications, especially at schools you think you may be applying to again. I posted about this elsewhere, but just wanted to reiterate that I got some very useful feedback from Buffalo that was quite different from anything I expected or could have figured out by myself, and what they said also gave me much more hope for going into round 2 (the DGS said they don't usually give feedback because they can't remember everyone's file, but he remembered my file very well and had thought it was very strong, etc). Of course, a lot of schools will simply tell you they can't provide any feedback, but its definitely worth trying.

Fiona, to answer your question about how did we know we wanted to do round 2, I'll say that for me it was sort of a "subconscious" thing. What I mean is that, after traveling in SE Asia for the last 2 months and experiencing a very, well, non-academic side of life, I was having all these questioning thoughts about whether I really want to be in academia and whether its really right for me. I received my rejection letters while I was traveling and was so surprised that I wasn't as devastated as I thought I'd be. Then when I got back, for some reason I just kept going on gradcafe again. And I realized that I was totally thinking about round 2, in spite of myself. It was like this other part of my mind took over. Now I'm totally making all these round-2 plans, so I'm like, ok, I guess this is what I'm doing... weird. And I really don't know what else to do, so there ya go. The other thing is that I really did not feel that my applications this year were the best they could be. I didn't study for the GRE, and while my scores were ok, I think they could be better if I studied. I was super busy and just did not have the time I needed to get my SOP and writing sample to where I was happy with them. I mean, I know that as lit. majors we are never happy with our work, but I truly think I could make everything much better with a whole year to re-work it. This is also a good indicator, to me, that I should go for round 2. I agree with Venti that your waitlist indicates a lot of hope for you. I say go for it!

[Fiona Thunderpaws]

Thanks for your feedback and encouragement everyone! I guess self-doubt and and apprehension got me more than I thought they had. I think to the idea of applications last fall terrifying and immense--but they don't have to be that way next time around. I think I'm definitely going to try and focus more of fit, and shoot for fewer, but better-matched programs.

In the same vein, and someone who knew very little about fit this first time around, how did everyone else articulate fit in their SOPs? Do we focus on professors, the nature of the program itself (hard to distinguish from the websites)? Do you think it's acceptable to do a more hands-on approach and email potential POIs at schools with our research interests and see what they say about our chances? I thought avoiding direct contact with programs pre-application would be the better thing to do for some reason, but the Girl Scouts don't sell any cookies by lurking at home behind their computers, now do they?

[lolopixie]

Generally, my writing sample was three pages double spaced. I had one school want 500 words, so that is what they got. I'm a fan of the double space - cannot stand single spacing things.