Value of MPA Rankings

[lbjane]

I don't think that rankings matter nearly as much for MPP/MPA/IR programs as they do for MBA and law programs. Yes, brand name recognition can sometimes open doors, but so can attending a well-known state university or a school near where the person reviewing your resume grew up. Rankings and brand name matter a little more in the private sector, so if you're interested in that route it might be worth more to you. In the federal government, it matters very little. In the non-profit sector, it matters a little bit but not usually as much as a lot of people think it does. If you're interested in state or local government, a regionally well known program may help you make the best connections.

Most of the schools publish info about recent employers and there's a lot of overlap across the schools regardless of ranking, though some schools might have a certain regional or policy focus that helps them place more grads with certain agencies or in certain areas. When looking at career information, consider the class size, ask how many people were funded by their employer, and ask about employment numbers with specific employers and/or fields that you've got an interest in, since all of those things can affect how likely a degree from that school is to make a difference in your chance of finding employment with that employer or in that field. Larger schools will naturally have a larger number of employers, but that doesn't mean that their students are necessarily more competitive, it might just mean that there are more of them. Students who are funded by their employer can skew average starting salaries, the types of alumni employment listed, and so on to make it look like your chances of getting a job and/or salary are higher than they are if you're not already employed by that employer.

I also think that going to school in DC is not necessarily as important as people think it is. While there are tons of MSFS, GPPI, Elliott, SIS, SAIS, UMDPP, etc grads running around DC, there are also tons of LBJ, Bush, Maxwell, Ford, Sanford, Goldman, UGA, Indiana, etc grads running around DC, too. The big MPP/MPA/IR employers will hit the big policy schools when recruiting and will accept applications and resumes from even more. So, while networking in DC can be helpful, it's not nearly as hard to make the transition from a decent policy school to DC as people make it out to be. There's also something to be said for having full-time faculty available vs a ton of adjuncts who are not nearly as accessible, or who just give the occasional seminar.

The decision about where to go is a very personal one. For some people, sinking the money on their dream school is absolutely worth it even if it means a lot of debt or applying again next year. Others are very passionate about a certain subfield and find a school that's a really great fit for that subfield. Some have family considerations that keep them in a certain geographic area. Some are determined to avoid debt. There are differences in programs and the rankings aren't totally worthless, but I wouldn't use them as a large factor when determining where to go. You have to balance what's important to you and find the best fit for you and your career plans, which may not be the best fit for the other people on the board.

[Chipembere]

I don't think that rankings matter nearly as much for MPP/MPA/IR programs as they do for MBA and law programs. Yes, brand name recognition can sometimes open doors, but so can attending a well-known state university or a school near where the person reviewing your resume grew up. Rankings and brand name matter a little more in the private sector, so if you're interested in that route it might be worth more to you. In the federal government, it matters very little. In the non-profit sector, it matters a little bit but not usually as much as a lot of people think it does. If you're interested in state or local government, a regionally well known program may help you make the best connections.

Most of the schools publish info about recent employers and there's a lot of overlap across the schools regardless of ranking, though some schools might have a certain regional or policy focus that helps them place more grads with certain agencies or in certain areas. When looking at career information, consider the class size, ask how many people were funded by their employer, and ask about employment numbers with specific employers and/or fields that you've got an interest in, since all of those things can affect how likely a degree from that school is to make a difference in your chance of finding employment with that employer or in that field. Larger schools will naturally have a larger number of employers, but that doesn't mean that their students are necessarily more competitive, it might just mean that there are more of them. Students who are funded by their employer can skew average starting salaries, the types of alumni employment listed, and so on to make it look like your chances of getting a job and/or salary are higher than they are if you're not already employed by that employer.

I also think that going to school in DC is not necessarily as important as people think it is. While there are tons of MSFS, GPPI, Elliott, SIS, SAIS, UMDPP, etc grads running around DC, there are also tons of LBJ, Bush, Maxwell, Ford, Sanford, Goldman, UGA, Indiana, etc grads running around DC, too. The big MPP/MPA/IR employers will hit the big policy schools when recruiting and will accept applications and resumes from even more. So, while networking in DC can be helpful, it's not nearly as hard to make the transition from a decent policy school to DC as people make it out to be. There's also something to be said for having full-time faculty available vs a ton of adjuncts who are not nearly as accessible, or who just give the occasional seminar.

The decision about where to go is a very personal one. For some people, sinking the money on their dream school is absolutely worth it even if it means a lot of debt or applying again next year. Others are very passionate about a certain subfield and find a school that's a really great fit for that subfield. Some have family considerations that keep them in a certain geographic area. Some are determined to avoid debt. There are differences in programs and the rankings aren't totally worthless, but I wouldn't use them as a large factor when determining where to go. You have to balance what's important to you and find the best fit for you and your career plans, which may not be the best fit for the other people on the board.

I largely agree with this, especially the last part about the personal nature of deciding where to go.

This thread has been hugely helpful and relevant to me. Is anyone attending the admitted student day for Maxwell, CIPA or GW?

I'm in a bit of a quandary. CIPA has offered $28k/year to attend. Would you consider Maxwell (joint MPA/MAIR) or GW (MPA Tracht) without funding over CIPA in this scenario? If not, how much would Maxwell and GW have to offer to make it worth it to pass up such a generous fellowship from CIPA?

[MaxwellAlum]

I'll start by saying I'm biased, I'm currently at Maxwell and I love it.

That said, yes of course I am skeptical of the rankings, mostly because I question whether "deans, directors and department chairs" really know much about the quality of other programs across the country. And since I've only attended one program, I'm not in a position to rank schools either.

However, I do have a good sense of what is good at Maxwell and what isn't, and personally I do feel the specialties rankings do reflect some reality regarding the relative strength of Maxwell in certain areas versus others. For example, it makes sense to me that Maxwell is not as highly ranked in policy analysis as it is in other areas, as some have noted, because that's not the main focus of the MPA. One of the differences I've noted between Maxwell and other programs is the fact that there's only one semester of micro required for the MPA (probably because it's a one year program) and I think that's reflected in the policy analysis rankings. On the other hand, there are a ton of really knowlegeable faculty here in the area of public management and some really fantastic classes, and the same goes for public finance and budgeting; Maxwell is ranked #1 in these areas. So, in that sense, I am more impressed by the rankings than I expected to be.

Is there a rankings game going on? I have no idea, but probably. Do Harvard, Columbia and Princeton have better programs? Certainly they are more selective, which is an advantage in and of itself. HKS will always have a better brand than Maxwell because it's Harvard, which attracts more applicants, which means that the people who get into and graduate from HKS must be very smart (before they got to HKS) and will go far in their careers, helped by a vast network of other smart (and well-connected) alumni. That doesn't necessarily mean that the teaching is better, though of course it's good to have smart classmates.

As someone else has said, use the rankings as a starting point, but educate yourself about the programs by speaking with current students and alumni and look at what kinds of classes are offered at each school. For example, for the moment, Maxwell is not the best place to go to study international finance (public finance, yes). A degree from a brand name school will most likely have some benefits that you will not get from Maxwell, and no amount of US News rankings will change that. But people from Maxwell and other non brand name schools go on to have great careers, so do consider them!

Edited March 15, 2012 by SyracuseStudent

[mtny]

What about a program like Fels, which is ranked considerably lower than the rest of the pack. I think its #46 - compared to a school like Rockefeller College @ SUNY Albany which is #16 or NYU at #6. I'd feel like a fool for turning down ivy league for SUNY, or even NYU in some instances. But there has to be a reason Fels is so low on the list.

[fleetly]

I largely agree with rankings-are-not-the-end-all bit, especially since as an international student I'm looking to come back to work in my country and people here should definitely recognise the name/brand that I attended for 2 years !

Right now I have acceptances from Heinz, Ford, Maxwell and Trachtenberg.

I'm contemplating between Heinz and Ford and of the 2 Carnegie is a well-known name in India.. and since I'm looking at a more private sector sort of employment post the degree or perhaps may be something like the world bank.. I feel Heinz may be a better choice.

What do you guys think ? Any suggestions ?

PS: Fingers crossed for SIPA !

Edited March 18, 2012 by fleetly

[cathyc24]

Ok, I think we may have gotten a little off track from my original question. I get it, there are rankings and everyone has a different way of interpreting this data and has different opinions about how accurate the rankings are. That's not really what I was trying to get at so much. I suppose I didn't state my questions very clearly.

I want a job. Ideally, working in a non-profit or in some sort of public-service capacity. But I also do not want a mountain of debt, last time I checked, public servants and non-profit workers do not make much money. So I really don't care which schools everyone here thinks are the "real" best schools. That's not the issue.

Here is my real question:

I know if I get into a top ranked school it will help some in getting employed, but will that advantage in the job hunt offset the disadvantage the debt from a private institution will create?

[cathyc24]

I don't think that rankings matter nearly as much for MPP/MPA/IR programs as they do for MBA and law programs. Yes, brand name recognition can sometimes open doors, but so can attending a well-known state university or a school near where the person reviewing your resume grew up. Rankings and brand name matter a little more in the private sector, so if you're interested in that route it might be worth more to you. In the federal government, it matters very little. In the non-profit sector, it matters a little bit but not usually as much as a lot of people think it does. If you're interested in state or local government, a regionally well known program may help you make the best connections.

Most of the schools publish info about recent employers and there's a lot of overlap across the schools regardless of ranking, though some schools might have a certain regional or policy focus that helps them place more grads with certain agencies or in certain areas. When looking at career information, consider the class size, ask how many people were funded by their employer, and ask about employment numbers with specific employers and/or fields that you've got an interest in, since all of those things can affect how likely a degree from that school is to make a difference in your chance of finding employment with that employer or in that field. Larger schools will naturally have a larger number of employers, but that doesn't mean that their students are necessarily more competitive, it might just mean that there are more of them. Students who are funded by their employer can skew average starting salaries, the types of alumni employment listed, and so on to make it look like your chances of getting a job and/or salary are higher than they are if you're not already employed by that employer.

I also think that going to school in DC is not necessarily as important as people think it is. While there are tons of MSFS, GPPI, Elliott, SIS, SAIS, UMDPP, etc grads running around DC, there are also tons of LBJ, Bush, Maxwell, Ford, Sanford, Goldman, UGA, Indiana, etc grads running around DC, too. The big MPP/MPA/IR employers will hit the big policy schools when recruiting and will accept applications and resumes from even more. So, while networking in DC can be helpful, it's not nearly as hard to make the transition from a decent policy school to DC as people make it out to be. There's also something to be said for having full-time faculty available vs a ton of adjuncts who are not nearly as accessible, or who just give the occasional seminar.

The decision about where to go is a very personal one. For some people, sinking the money on their dream school is absolutely worth it even if it means a lot of debt or applying again next year. Others are very passionate about a certain subfield and find a school that's a really great fit for that subfield. Some have family considerations that keep them in a certain geographic area. Some are determined to avoid debt. There are differences in programs and the rankings aren't totally worthless, but I wouldn't use them as a large factor when determining where to go. You have to balance what's important to you and find the best fit for you and your career plans, which may not be the best fit for the other people on the board.

Sorry all, I didn't read every post once it got into an argument about who goes to the best school, this one was really helpful though, thanks!

[state_school'12]

Two points:

One prospective I've heard repeatedly, which makes a lot of sense to me, is that the pedigree of the school will have the greatest impact on your first or second job. The effect will diminish, as the work that you've done moves to the top of your credentials.

To that point, I'd add that having a reputable school attached to your name may help the chances at a senior position that bears scrutiny from the public. If you wanted to be the president of a non profit, I could see that having a degree from Harvard could help snag potential donors, etc.

As to the money/prestige trade off, each gives you flexability in a different way. Obviously a degree from Harvard will open doors that wouldn't exisit (or wouldn't open as easily) as a degree from No-Name State University. However, $100+k in debt will also limit the types of positions you can take.

[Anshuman]

fleetly - What was your eventual choice? I am from India too and plan to apply this year. It would be an immense help if you could share your profile.

And to the main discussion itself - wouldn't a one-year MPA like Maxwell's limit your debt while still proving an excellent investment of time and money?