Financing the MPP/MPA

[shastika]

Hi everyone,

I just stumbled upon some info about two federal programs which will take effect in July and I thought these might be useful to other potential policy grad students out there:

1. Income Based Repayment (as many of us will most likely be struggling to pay off loans with public salaries)

2. Public Service Loan Forgiveness (forgives federal loan debt after 10 years in "public service" jobs including jobs in government and non-profits)

If anyone knows of any other funding/loan forgiveness opportunities, please post them!

http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html

[policy_applicant]

"IBR will also forgive remaining debt, if any, after 25 years of qualifying payments."

[cries.]

[Demetrios2011]

The relevant portion for most of us is that the program would forgive the remaining loans of those in "public service" positions after 10 years of qualified payments (rather than 25), although I assume most people would have paid off the balance by then, thus gaining no real benefit. One thing I have wondered about is how much of debt load the typical mpa/mpp grad student takes on, which rarely seems to be mentioned here or elsewhere. Because the mpa degree is considered "professional" in nature, it is rare to recieve full funding, even though the projected salary of an mpa graduate is much lower than that of many of the other "professional" degrees. I have been offered a 75% tuition fellowship by the only school of heard from thus far, but I will still have a substantial debt load, due to the cost of living without employment. I have gotten the impression that even having 75% of your tuition paid is not typical, with most people receiving less or even nothing at all (and I do not expect to receive the same generous package from other schools.) What is everyone's take on this?

[mpp2011]

Demetrios -

My take is that if I'm looking at more than $40-50K in debt from an MPP/MPA program, I may just skip it and apply to law school next year. Right now I have a difficult time imagining going to a program at a private school without at least a half-tuition scholarship. I've been accepted to two programs thus far, but no word on funding yet. So I'm in a wait-and-see mode at the moment. Once all the admissions and aid decisions come back I'll see which options are workable and which aren't, go on my visits, learn more about the programs and about long-term earnings potential, then make an informed decision. I really like the curriculum of these programs and the different options you have after completion, but my wife and I already have a lot of student debt, so I want to make sure that any additional debt we take on is manageable.

Does anyone here think it would make good financial sense to attend a program like HKS or GPPI financed 100 percent by loans? I'd be curious to hear others' thoughts, as I'm keeping an open mind.

[Rutabaga]

A lot of people pay for it themselves through loans or they find jobs with tuition reimbursement. I paid for mine through a combination of both. I know a lot of people say that the name doesn't necessarily matter that much, but personally I find the name recognition of having gone to a top 10 MPP program in DC worth the debt. It's also been a big plus to have gone to a well respected school in my PhD application process.

[jonpkduq]

Demetrios -

Does anyone here think it would make good financial sense to attend a program like HKS or GPPI financed 100 percent by loans? I'd be curious to hear others' thoughts, as I'm keeping an open mind.

I second this sentiment. Especially if one is planning to pursue a PhD. What are people's thoughts on going to a lesser-known school that provides more funding vs. going to a well-known school with no funding, if the end goal is to pursue a PhD?

[Demetrios2011]

In my opinion, the decision to go to a lower ranked (by usnews, presumably) school offering money is dependant on the type of employment you want to have after graduation. If you want to work in the corporate or international sectors, for example, you would need to go to a top-ranked school to have a shot at getting a job. If you plan on working for local government or an NGO the ranking of your school may not be as important, if at all. In either case going to a low ranked private school that doesn't offer you money will almost certainly be a mistake from a long term financial standpoint.

[sosh]

I can't imagine going to a private MPP/MPAff program with no substantial funding. I just finished my first semester at LBJ and and am very thankful of the public school tuition, not to mention the in-state rate.

And the U.S. News rankings are completely bogus. For example, KSG isn't on there (because they're not part of NASPAA), and there is no quantitative methodology behind it. The best gauge of a program is their placement rate, where students typically intern, work/research opportunities and quality career services office.

[policy_applicant]

I can't imagine going to a private MPP/MPAff program with no substantial funding. I just finished my first semester at LBJ and and am very thankful of the public school tuition, not to mention the in-state rate.

And the U.S. News rankings are completely bogus. For example, KSG isn't on there (because they're not part of NASPAA), and there is no quantitative methodology behind it. The best gauge of a program is their placement rate, where students typically intern, work/research opportunities and quality career services office.

sosh, how do you like LBJ? I had a co-worker who went there and urged me to apply. What's your policy focus? Do you like the faculty?

[sosh]

sosh, how do you like LBJ? I had a co-worker who went there and urged me to apply. What's your policy focus? Do you like the faculty?

It's been great so far. The academic side of the program is good -- I'm MPAff focusing on urban/state affairs but we have a lot of freedom in terms of a concentration in that we're not required to choose one (I'm taking a course from the MGPS program this semester). Haven't had a bad instructor yet and had a couple great ones. IIRC, something like 90%+ of our faculty are full time, permanent. The best part has to be the cohesiveness of the students. Everyone's very friendly and most people hang out outside of school. I hear the alumni network is quite expansive but haven't taken the time to contact anyone.

For negatives, I'd say the remodeling of our building is a major pain right now. They're gutting it and it should be really nice when done by spring '10 but starting to get annoying. One of my reservations was being away from D.C. but that hasn't really been an issue so far.

Let me know if you got anything else.

[mgrn68]

When did LBJ send out decisions last year?

[sosh]

Third week of February. I think they started sending out acceptances around Feb. 20 and I heard the 26th. They might be behind this year.

[thebends1996]

This topic is a really major issue that I hope you future MPA/MPP students really think about. One of the most difficult decisions I made was choosing a lower-ranked school for free with a stipend over a bigger named school. I had acceptances from NYU, GW, American, Minnesota, and a couple others that I can't remember all with no funding. I was completely enamored by NYU especially (I had wanted to move back to NYC for some time and really liked the program) However, when I did the calculation, I would have been at least 100k in debt for the private schools and closer to the 30k-40k range at the public schools that were out of state. I just could not justify taking on that sort of debt load when the average salaries, for a good public sector job, start in the 45-55k range.

I went to the lower-tiered (still top 40 I think in the bogus USNEWS publication) and was able to find a great job in the NYC Mayor's Office. After working there for a year, I have moved on to work for on to a prestigious position within a Congressional agency. I did this by really working hard on the networking front, keeping a high GPA, and taking advantage of every opportunity my school had to offer (including a lot of quant courses). I even, before I accepted the NYC job, had a few PhD offers (that was my original intention).

Yes, a decent percentage of my colleagues have masters degrees from the usual suspects (GWU, Georgetown, Harvard, etc.), but there are some not so big schools, too. You may have to work a bit harder, but you won't have the burden of an $800 a month student loan that will seriously impede some of the things you may want to do in the future (ex: buy a house). I'd be happy to answer any questions people may have. I know how hard it is to choose a masters program and how daunting it can be, but really consider the financial implications. They can really alter your future plans.

[DefinitelyMaybe]

You may have to work a bit harder, but you won't have the burden of an $800 a month student loan that will seriously impede some of the things you may want to do in the future (ex: buy a house). I'd be happy to answer any questions people may have. I know how hard it is to choose a masters program and how daunting it can be, but really consider the financial implications. They can really alter your future plans.

I completely agree with this.

The economy is in the toilet right now and will probably still be in the toilet by the time I finish graduate school in 2011. I only applied to three MPP programs, but I have already promised myself that if I receive little to no funding, I'm going to put off graduate school for the time being (I have a pretty great policy job in DC right now and I'm pretty certain I could be promoted). I think it is extremely unwise to borrow $40-$70,000 for a public policy degree, but that's just my opinion. There is more to life than graduate school and there is life after graduate school; I refuse to be burdened down by outrageous student loan payments that will ruin my quality of life.

[DefinitelyMaybe]

I have a friend in MALD program at Tufts. He got a scholarship, but not a full ride (he did get a full ride to American and turned it down). He went into graduate school with a ton of undergrad debt and now is looking at taking on $100k (I think that is total including his undergrad). It is outrageous. He pays a ton to live in Boston, plus tuition out of pocket, etc. I just don't see that working out for him in the future. I paid off my undergraduate debt before applying to graduate school. It basically meant I had no money for awhile, but I am really glad I did it.

That is ridiculous. :| He is insane for turning down a full ride at American, especially since I hear they are ridiculously stingy with financial aid.

I borrowed money to go to school, but since I stayed in state and didn't borrow until my junior year, my UG loans are pretty low by most standards (less than $9,000). If I can keep my total educational loans under $30,000, I'll be happy. That can actually be paid off in my lifetime.

$100k, though? No way.

[linden]

Many here have made it fairly clear that they will not get into outrageous debt to pursue an MPP/MPA degree. But, would your opinion change if you got into HKS, for example? Are there are any programs that are so respected and well-recognized and that have such unmatched networking opportunities that you would finance your education with loans?

[DefinitelyMaybe]

Many here have made it fairly clear that they will not get into outrageous debt to pursue an MPP/MPA degree. But, would your opinion change if you got into HKS, for example? Are there are any programs that are so respected and well-recognized and that have such unmatched networking opportunities that you would finance your education with loans?

Honestly, no. Not in this economy. Even "Haahhhhvuhd" would get a no from me if they expected me to pay for everything with loans. Their "well-respected" name and "unmatched networking opportunities" are no guarantee that I'll have a well-paying job when I get out of school.

I know their endowment lost a few billion, but they aren't hurting that much. If they are, they should do like Princeton and admit a smaller amount of students but give them all full rides. If this were an MBA, I would think differently. But for a degree that is primarily for folks interested in working in government or the non-profit sector? It's not worth it, to me. I (hopefully) have a long life ahead of me and I fully intend to travel, get married, buy a house, have kids, all that stuff. I'm not borrowing the equivalent of a mortgage for the name of a school and jeopardize not living the life I want.

100k in loans just to say I went to Harvard...yeah right!

[jonpkduq]

Is anyone aware of repayment plans through the federal gov? I seem to remember reading somewhere that employees were eligible for something like 10k a year in loan repayments, up to 50k total. For the life of me I haven't been able to find that information again, and I'm starting to worry that I somehow imagined it. If it were true, and one wanted to work in the federal gov, I'd have less qualms about taking out the loans to go to a strong program.

The link posted at the beginning of this thread had some good info. It sounds like if you qualify, you basically get a much lower monthly payment (therefore you don't pay off the total in ten years, like you might otherwise) and after ten years the rest is forgiven. Did I read that correctly?

[thebends1996]

The loan repayment program is an agency decision and not mandated. I know a lot of the science/engineering type federal jobs use the program to retain talent (and the State Department). But, a lot of federal agencies do not offer the repayment program. It's discretionary spending for the agency and that can easily fluctuate year to year. Anyway, here is the link:

http://www.opm.gov/oca/pay/studentloan/index.asp

[linden]

Is anyone aware of repayment plans through the federal gov? I seem to remember reading somewhere that employees were eligible for something like 10k a year in loan repayments, up to 50k total. For the life of me I haven't been able to find that information again, and I'm starting to worry that I somehow imagined it. If it were true, and one wanted to work in the federal gov, I'd have less qualms about taking out the loans to go to a strong program.

The link posted at the beginning of this thread had some good info. It sounds like if you qualify, you basically get a much lower monthly payment (therefore you don't pay off the total in ten years, like you might otherwise) and after ten years the rest is forgiven. Did I read that correctly?

jonpkduq:

I don't remember the loan repayment program being as generous as 10K/year, but things may have changed. I think the amount ended up being about $3K after taxes. While the program certainly helps, I would not structure my academic financial plans around the program.

Good luck!

[younglions]

I applied to Harvard. If I'm accepted, but without funding, I'm definitely saying no. I would keep the acceptance letter buried away in some filing cabinet for the rest of my life though.

[mpp2011]

It sounds like there's a consensus on here that taking out six-figure debt (or anything approaching that) for an MPP/MPA is a bad idea. I wouldn't disagree, and I'm thankful that I applied to three relatively inexpensive public schools in addition to some expensive private ones. But I'd like to hear some of you, especially those who have already earned the degree and are out in the workforce, address the long-term earnings potential for an MPP/MPA graduate. We've established that we can expect to earn between $45-60K per year after graduation (unless we take a private consulting job), but what can we expect to make 5, 10, 20 years later if we stay in government, nonprofit, or NGO work? Of course this will vary depending on the individual, but what can we expect if we're at least moderately successful and are progressively promoted into higher-level positions?

And does anyone know much about the private consulting track? What is the long-term salary potential for that? Is it necessary, or helpful, to attend one of the top programs to land a job in that realm?

Of course, I doubt any of us are going into this for the money. But at the same time, personal finances are important too, as is not owing more money than you can afford to pay back.

[s800x]

It sounds like there's a consensus on here that taking out six-figure debt (or anything approaching that) for an MPP/MPA is a bad idea. I wouldn't disagree, and I'm thankful that I applied to three relatively inexpensive public schools in addition to some expensive private ones. But I'd like to hear some of you, especially those who have already earned the degree and are out in the workforce, address the long-term earnings potential for an MPP/MPA graduate. We've established that we can expect to earn between $45-60K per year after graduation (unless we take a private consulting job), but what can we expect to make 5, 10, 20 years later if we stay in government, nonprofit, or NGO work? Of course this will vary depending on the individual, but what can we expect if we're at least moderately successful and are progressively promoted into higher-level positions?

And does anyone know much about the private consulting track? What is the long-term salary potential for that? Is it necessary, or helpful, to attend one of the top programs to land a job in that realm?

Of course, I doubt any of us are going into this for the money. But at the same time, personal finances are important too, as is not owing more money than you can afford to pay back.

Bump. As an international student am really interested in hearing some answers to this ...

[Rutabaga]

In regards to consulting forms going to a top private school will be a BIG help. A lot of these firms (like LMI) partner with certain schools (Harvard, GWU, etc.) for fellowship programs and summer internships for students/new graduates. In terms of earnings potential I can't really say, but I know starting salaries are at least two times as high as what you'll see with a nonprofit or working on the hill. However, keep in mind that if you do get into federal government agencies the GSA schedule becomes pretty generous once you reach the higher levels.

[enantiomorph]

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