Hearing from the Kennedy School?

[jmoney]

jmoney -

You make good points, but as you said, confirmatory bias can factor into decision making. Moreover, there's a good chance I'll be relocating this fall with a significant other. This week she has become pretty excited about Princeton, and is losing her enthusiasm toward some of my other potential destinations. Perhaps I should have kept my admissions results a secret from her!

From your post history, I see you were also accepted into Princeton but decided on Harvard. Can you provide any insight into what factors influenced your decision?

The decision calculus came down to these factors: school's emphasis on theory vs. practice, breadth/flexibility of curriculum, and quality of life. Fortunately for me, the financial considerations weren't a concern.

Given my already (and unusually) strong quantitative background and desire to be a practitioner rather than researcher, I felt HKS to be a better fit. The ability to exempt out of core curriculum requirements was therefore very important, and the ability to cross-register at the Business/Law/Public Health/Education/etc schools made HKS all the more attractive. Lastly, Princeton is beautiful and quaint town--but I didn't want to spend 20% of my twenties in a place that could be socially stifling (for more family-oriented types, this is probably a plus). For years I had been on the WWS bandwagon (somewhat still am), and I still have tremendous respect for the program and do believe it provides a top notch public policy education, but given where I was at in my career/education/life, it didn't make as much sense as it did in the past. My decision went down to the wire (last day), but do feel like I made the right choice.

All this is to say that the decision is an incredibly personal one and I would advise against basing the decision on rankings or even reputation (reputation does matter, but that's another issue). Do your homework, determine the factors important to you, and then evaluate the school/program through that lens.

[younglions]

Thanks for the very informative response jmoney. I can appreciate your decision of Harvard over Princeton. I too am in my mid 20s, and part of me wants to be a cosmopolitan city to enjoy my first two years back in the USA after a few years abroad. All else equal, I would take Boston over Princeton any day of the week.

[linden]

Sigh. I can't wait for this to be over.

[javajava]

I'm inclined to agree with Linden. While I respect that schools need time to make their selections, there are many decisions that cascade from our choice of grad school. The whole world unfortunately does not grind to a halt while schools ponder whom to admit - we have other people, deadlines, and other aspects of our lives to think about. I personally don't feel great asking other people to put their lives on hold while I wait for mine to come together..

[DaveinDC]

Wow, the posts under the "Results Search" section are 10 times as inflammatory as the ones here. To all the angry people, I would just say: Don't forget that you applied to their program. Didn't you do some research or visit before applying? Once you know the offers you have, how long do you really need to make the decision? If you've ever been involved in a hiring/selection process, you know that picking the top candidate(s) can be extremely difficult, and the Ad Comm has to do that times several hundred. I would prefer that they take their time and get it right, rather than just take shortcuts like basing decisions on GPAs and test scores. They're well-aware that they may be in competition with other schools for top candidates. I agree that they risk losing some people by announcing late. But that's no reason to get angry about it.

[applikant]

Wow, the posts under the "Results Search" section are 10 times as inflammatory as the ones here. To all the angry people, I would just say: Don't forget that you applied to their program. Didn't you do some research or visit before applying? Once you know the offers you have, how long do you really need to make the decision? If you've ever been involved in a hiring/selection process, you know that picking the top candidate(s) can be extremely difficult, and the Ad Comm has to do that times several hundred. I would prefer that they take their time and get it right, rather than just take shortcuts like basing decisions on GPAs and test scores. They're well-aware that they may be in competition with other schools for top candidates. I agree that they risk losing some people by announcing late. But that's no reason to get angry about it.

I certainly hope they do take the shortcuts based on GPAs and test scores

Kidding aside, I agree with the view that it's not so much of a big deal to hear from them late. We knew when they were going to notify us when we applied, and if having visited the school is so important to making a decision, then there is always the option of visiting before you hear from the school. Of course it becomes a "waste" if you don't get in, but come on, compared to all the time/money we spend in this process, it is not that much of a huge expense.

[MCneelified06]

Jmoney, thank you for your post above. That was very helpful and informative. Unfortunately, funding IS a concern of mine, so that tends to crowd out other considerations. I do hope that I get admitted to HKS with some sort of package and can take a hard look. Since Berkeley offered me a big fat zero in scholarships, I won't really have a decision to make if Harvard does the same.

[dagger]

Jmoney, thank you for your post above. That was very helpful and informative. Unfortunately, funding IS a concern of mine, so that tends to crowd out other considerations. I do hope that I get admitted to HKS with some sort of package and can take a hard look. Since Berkeley offered me a big fat zero in scholarships, I won't really have a decision to make if Harvard does the same.

Depending on your career plans, I do believe there are loan/debt forgiveness programs from Harvard for those interested in public service. Also, some businesses have programs aimed at repaying loans, etc. I imagine someone else on the board knows more than I on the subject and I think its been discussed previously.

The only reason I bring it to light is that these programs can make an unaffordable school much more affordable.

[policywife]

I would highly suggest reading KSG's page about financial aid. They very clearly lay out that people should be prepared to take on over 120,000 in debt (assuming no financial aid of course). Plus, we all know the cost of living in Boston is, well, not low. Unless you have savings, someone to work and pay for you (spouse, significant other) or are prepared to take on a lot of debt, cost is absolutely something you should think about. Additionally, while Harvard does have loan repayment programs, I believe most (if not all) only last 5 years. You're all smart, you can do the math.

Whether this is helpful or not, as someone who currently works in international development for the USG in Washington, DC, you might be interested to know that our office is pretty equally made up of Princeton (how can you turn down all that money?!), Harvard, Georgetown (probably the most), SAIS and SIPA grads. In fact, I would say there's very little difference in the pay and rank of people from these schools.

[linden]

This discussion reminds me, the Kennedy School's Citizen recently had a series of articles written by last year's graduates. I was struck by how many (half, I believe) were working in the private sector. Does anyone know what percentage of HKS students work in the private sector after graduation? jmoney, from your experience, what portion of your classmates feel like they will have to go into the private sector to be able to repay their loans and maintain their standard of living?

policywife:

Thanks for your comments. It is reassuring to know that other schools are equally valued in the workplace, just in case I don't get that coveted admit or don't want to go into crazy levels of debt.

[fall09]

This discussion reminds me, the Kennedy School's Citizen recently had a series of article written by last year's graduates. I was struck by how many (half, I believe) were working in the private sector. Does anyone know what percentage of HKS students work in the private sector after graduation? jmoney, from your experience, what portion of your classmates feel like they will have to go into the private sector to be able to repay their loans and maintain their standard of living?

I'm glad you bring up this point. I will go for my top choice no matter the financial cost (provided I get the loans) because my academic career matters to me a great deal. But it does mean that, after having always worked in the public sector, I will hardly have a choice but to take up employment in the private sector for at least 3 to 5 years. Whether I will be in a situation to then switch back into the public sector (by then, there may be other factors to consider) remains to be seen.

I am sure many imagine a similar scenario and it is lamentable, if not a little hypocritical, that commitment to the public sector figuring so prominently among public policy school requirements, has to be abandoned in favor of a top education.

[poiuytr]

It's going to be sweet when this forum actually has some news in it, eh?

[cerise]

I would just like to say--as someone who took on a lot of debt as an undergrad--that it's worth thinking long and hard about how much it's really worth it. In my experience on both sides of the hiring process, the name of the school matters less than what you do while you're there.

The thing about debt that people don't understand (until they have it) is that it's not just money you give up, it's freedom. For instance, good luck doing a volunteer program abroad if you have to keep up with $600/mo payments in the meantime. And even basic stuff-- like saving for a house or a just a rainy day-- becomes much more difficult. It's all very well to say that you should just do what you love, never compromise, etc...but real life doesn't always conform so nicely to those ideas.

I'm sure that you've all already put plenty of thought into this, and I don't mean to lecture. I just wish that someone had explained to me exactly what was at stake when I kept signing that dotted line as an undergrad. I might have thought a little harder about how much I really needed that fancy name on my diploma.

Getting off my soapbox now...

[jmoney]

This discussion reminds me, the Kennedy School's Citizen recently had a series of articles written by last year's graduates. I was struck by how many (half, I believe) were working in the private sector. Does anyone know what percentage of HKS students work in the private sector after graduation? jmoney, from your experience, what portion of your classmates feel like they will have to go into the private sector to be able to repay their loans and maintain their standard of living?

The most recent 3-years (average):

Public: 43%

Nonprofit: 26.1%

Private: 30.9%

FYI: In the last ten years, we've never had half or more go into the private sector. 2000 saw the highest spike in students going into the private sector (42%), and the dot-com boom was likely the major driving force behind those figures.

I will also say that 30% is still too high, and aid/debt burden is the number 1 issue Dean Ellwood has taken up as a priority. I suppose we do our best with the resources we have.

[pritinsp]

Dear Policywife

Thanks for your note. I just wanted to check why Syracuse Maxwell School does not figure in recruitment stats? It seems to be the highest ranked program on US News and have heard a lot about their alumni network,etc.

Also how would you say USC figures in the scheme of things? If international development is what I am looking at a career in, would USC have a major disadvantage since its on the west coast.

As far as Georgetown univ is concerned, is the 1 year MPM program(mid career executive track) as recognized as the MPP program.

Look forward to your views since while i await the kennedy school results, am also having to start thinking about the offers I have received so far.

[policywife]

Dear Policywife

Thanks for your note. I just wanted to check why Syracuse Maxwell School does not figure in recruitment stats? It seems to be the highest ranked program on US News and have heard a lot about their alumni network,etc.

Also how would you say USC figures in the scheme of things? If international development is what I am looking at a career in, would USC have a major disadvantage since its on the west coast.

As far as Georgetown univ is concerned, is the 1 year MPM program(mid career executive track) as recognized as the MPP program.

Look forward to your views since while i await the kennedy school results, am also having to start thinking about the offers I have received so far.

Definitely don't take my experience as the gold standard, but...looking over the bios of the people here where I work, only 2 went to Syracuse (one is my boss, actually!) While I don't believe that has anything to do with the quality of the school, I think it does have to do with the alumni networks here in DC. That's just my feeling, though. There's a decent-sized California contingent here as well, though this is spread out between USC, Berkeley and UCLA (with a few others in the mix: Davis, Santa Barbara, etc).

The breakdown by school also has to do with the ability to get an internship your second year and, quite honestly, students who are from DC schools can easily sign up for part-time spring or fall internships (which are much, much less competitive than summer internships) which can lead nicely into full-time positions. It most certainly doesn't mean that people from out of the city can't also get internships, it's just that the reality is that spring and fall internships are much less competitive and, therefore, easier to land.

But here's the real moral of the story: if you're a great student at a well known international affairs/policy/development program, with significant quant and qualitative experience AND have overseas experience (I cannot emphasize this enough), you'll be just fine.

Maybe I should look into counseling programs! That would free up my job for one of you...

[Cornell07]

For all of you on edge for the next few days, the magic area code is 617 for those unidentified calls on your cell phones.

[mpp_hopeful]

For all of you on edge for the next few days, the magic area code is 617 for those unidentified calls on your cell phones.

Haha. I was just about to look that up.

[dayafterxmas]

Ever heard of the Maxwell Mafia?

[dayafterxmas]

So...tick tock tick tock...

[dagger]

So...tick tock tick tock...

I was surprised on how quiet things became on this thread.

[dayafterxmas]

perhaps it's nervous anticipation...vomiting...losing consciousness. You know, any one of those.

[splic]

I have to submit application forms for external scholarships by the 27th, and I need to tell them which school I'm applying for. Hear me, O HKS gods!

[thewaitinggame09]

I was surprised on how quiet things became on this thread.

But once the emails are sent out this message board will be lite up like the 4th of July.

[Dreams]

But once the emails are sent out this message board will be lite up like the 4th of July.

Yep and it may even break the record that WWS decisions set for max number of users on the site.