Two, please - grad school and significant others

[firefly85]

The SO issue is stressing me out and making my decision a lot more difficult. I moved to this city to be near my SO (after he moved home because he wanted to get away or something). I did get into the school I wanted here, but I don't know about possible funding. However I also got into a DC school which I do know I have good funding at. He's said he would look for jobs down there, but probably not for a while since he wants to stay at his current job for a bit longer. However even if I go to grad school here he said he doesn't want to stay at the job he's at for 2 more whole years and I doubt he'll find something else he wants here, so I don't know what that means. We've done long distance before, and I guess I could do it again, but I don't really want to have to. And of course we're having other problems right now too! It sucks because if I decide to go to school here it just seems like I'm staying for him (even if I think it's the best place for me) and if I choose the one in DC it seems like I'm running away from him! Feel like I can't win. Sorry just venting. Good luck to everyone!

[threedaystar]

Ditto on the bf/grad school thing stressing me out. My bf has been accepted into a 1 year program at Oxford. I won't know back about my Oxford app for a while... Right now we are long distance, and while it doesn't seem to bother him too much, I prefer living closer. It just makes things so much easier.

However, the good news is that I am in at LSE, which will be okay as its only an hour commute from London to Oxford.

[spartaca]

I'm in a similar situation as many of you... I'm about to be 28 (eek, I'm getting old) and my SO is 25. I'm finishing up my MA this semester. She finished her MS in School & Agency Counseling a year ago and started looking for jobs in her field, with the plan that I would then look for PhD programs near to her job, so that neither of us would have to "sacrifice" our individual goals. Unfortunately, there are few to no school counseling positions in desirable areas of the country. As a same-sex couple, it's extremely important that we're in an at least somewhat liberal area for the next 5-6 years as we'd like to get married (legally or not) and start a family - especially knowing that my first job could take us anywhere (yay for TT positions in the Humanities!) and there could be little choice there. So, since she wasn't able to find a "real" job right out of grad school, I began my search with geography in mind. After making a list of every PhD program in English in the general areas we had agreed upon, I then began the real research and narrowed down programs according to fit, rankings, and my perceived likelihood of getting accepted. She was involved in every step of the process, doing her own research on schools and their locations. Similarly, while debating my two acceptances, it was a decision we came to together, taking everything from location to program to economy to distance from family/friends into consideration.

While I'm sure many of us have had the selfish urges that tell us education/career are or should be our number one priority, when you're in a committed relationship (we'll celebrate our 5 year anniversary the week we move across the country), things are different; compromise is important - vital, really. I understand just how much I'm asking of her, especially considering the current job market & knowing that now she might not find her ideal position for years to come. But in the end, things seemed to have worked out for the best. We're moving from the east to the west coast - a move we've both always dreamed of - to a program that's a great fit for me...

Anyone else in a same-sex relationship who has/had similar concerns?

[Rose]

Spartaca--

I'm also in a same-sex relationship and it's something I'm taking very seriously in this process. After my original post, I did end up getting into 2 schools in Boston, where my SO also has acceptances. I've been leaning back and forth between NYC and Boston--neither city really has shortcomings in liberalness that would make it less attractive.

But one of the things I've been looking at specifically is what approach the schools are taking to students in committed, but unmarried, relationships and to their general LGBTQQIA populations. I've been disturbed to discover how little information there is on school websites nowadays about the kind of support they offer for queer students and partnerships; some of the schools I'm considering don't even appear to have active student organizations or services for queer students, and I'm going to be paying alot of money for relatively little support. This would be even more problematic, I believe, if my SO and I end up being separated by a few hours on the east coast (a definite possibility). Recognition of a relationship is hard enough to come by when you're together; being apart is a whole other ballgame. Beyond those hypotheticals, I have caught some talk by word of mouth about issues with just plain civility and tolerance at some programs, and this is something I would scrutinize particularly highly if my SO and I ended up being apart.

I unfortunately don't have all the advantages you do in terms of negotiating this process. As I said above, my SO and I applied to different programs and are both set on going to school, which means that some of the compromises we make could have implications beyond the next 2 years as you cited. I think for us this is an even bigger issue since we applied to professional programs, and the networking opportunities, internship options, and job markets for the different things that we're interested in is vastly different dependent upon the school or program we choose. Compromise on either of our parts could mean alot more than a 2 year sacrifice, although our "compromise" options aren't honestly that bad. We were, like you, both involved in each other's school choices, but some of the acceptances and rejections have caught us by surprise.

I'd be interested to hear from you and others too, if you think it makes sense to be "apart" when the "long distance" is a 3 hour commute or if even then it's preferable to try to stay together?

[TulipOHare]

I'd be interested to hear from you and others too, if you think it makes sense to be "apart" when the "long distance" is a 3 hour commute or if even then it's preferable to try to stay together?

For about a year, my boyfriend and I were 3 hours apart and saw each other only on weekends, and we were fine. It also made us both REALLY productive during the week, because we wanted to make sure the weekend was totally free!

[spartaca]

Rose --

When my partner was applying for jobs last year, Vermont seemed like a possibility for her. As there are no PhD programs in English in the entire state of VT, a long distance/commuting situation was a very real possibility for us. We figured 3 hours was where we'd max out & we'd both consider living a bit further from job/school in the direction of the other, just to make seeing each other a little easier. Ideally we were thinking a program within 1-1.5 hours from her job, so that we could try to find a place in the middle and both commute. We were both committed to making whatever situation work as best we could, but if it got to the point where it was just too much (stress, money, loneliness, etc), then we'd wait another year, re-assess, and re-apply.

For us, staying together has always been the ideal, but in this kind of economic climate and in your situation - you're both applying at the same time, which is something we've not had to contend with - I wouldn't rule out long distance as a viable and workable option. If your programs are 3 hours apart, though, I'd begin to consider the academic and professional hindrances to trying to stay together physically - could not living near your respective campuses be detrimental to networking or prevent either of you from fully taking advantage of certain opportunities that may arise, etc.?

[Michelley262003]

I think it entirely depends on how significant your SO actually is. I have friends who went to school X together...in different programs. They ended up wanting different things and ending their relationship. However, they are both happy at their school. I think one has to find a place where they would be happy, even if they were not together.

[Rose]

Spartaca-

I see your point. If we went for the 3-hour distance option, we'd be commuting but by public transport (train, most likely, since neither of us owns a car), which would dispense with the idea of living halfway in-between in large part. Commuting 1.5 hours to campus seems incredibly unfeasible.

I'm trying to see ways in which a 3 hour distance in manageable for a program that will only be 2 years (for a PhD I would find this too big of a pain, but a Master's I don't think is as big of an issue). Our current thought is that we'd take turns commuting on weekends to visit each other. My only worry there is that grad school is obviously time- and work- intensive and that could easily get in the way of visitation plans.

And I definitely see what you mean about the VT issue--that wasn't a problem we encountered, mostly because the programs we were both looking at kind of required a large city setting, which just lent itself to having multiple universities for us each to choose from in each city. We also were heavily attracted to the east coast, since even 3 states away seems to only be a few hours commute. I am a little concerned though, that I'm too comfortable with the theoretical idea of being apart, and that actually executing it would be a surprise burden even after I thought I'd made peace with it. We've done long-distance before, but only for 3-4 month periods (although one of those was an international long-distance).

On the bright side, this will really force me to audition programs seriously and really make some of them work to prove that they're worth it.

Michelley262003-- This is also something I've thought about. My SO and I are going on 2 years together, which is hardly a 10-year-haul, but we're also still quite young and are very committed to each other. No discussion or consideration of a relationship separation is happening for us; it's more a function of how we will continue to be able to physically and emotionally support each other across geographic distance and what implications it might have for our future together in picking job locations, determining salaries and if whose job is taking precendence if one does, when to get married (legally or otherwise), etc.

[Lex]

My partner and I are planning to move together: I moved back to my current city largely because we hated the 6 months of long distance dating we did (which was intensely long distance - I was 2000 miles away, and unreachable by phone or email one week out of two). I personally would take the right relationship over a Ph.D. any day - there are lots of jobs out there that I could find reasonably satisfying, and the same is not true about girlfriends. This might be different depending on your relative pickiness vis a vis jobs and relationships. I also think a relationship where you see each other every weekend/every other weekend is really different from a relationship where you live together; but I would certainly consider doing it for a limited time (1 year? 2 years? not a full Ph.D.). And some people I know have made it work for much longer. Another part of why it's working out this way for us is that we've both made compromises: I moved back to our current town and we've stayed here an extra year because she got a job she wanted to keep; and I only applied to schools in places she was open to living (specifically, not UCLA).

Both my offers turn out to be in liberal towns/states, one of which has same-sex marriage, but I had some real reservations about the schools I applied to in liberal towns within conservative states. Those schools didn't offer partner benefits because the state legislature wouldn't authorize them. Not so much a concern for me, since grad students typically get very limited spousal benefits even when they're in hetero relationships, but it *does* mean you'd have fewer queer professors. And I'd like to have at least a few queer profs, someday, even though my discipline is obnoxiously straight. We're trying to decide which offer to accept together: she has a definite preference for one location (family near there, it's gorgeous, friends in the area), but we're waiting to fully decide til we go up to the other school, I can get a sense of what the professional differences will be, and she gets a sense of what the other town is really like. I'm really hoping I don't fall in love with the second school, partly because I know that if I have an academic career this won't be the last time I ask her to move somewhere. I don't want to lose my 'moving somewhere imperfect' card just yet.

[spartaca]

I'm trying to see ways in which a 3 hour distance in manageable for a program that will only be 2 years (for a PhD I would find this too big of a pain, but a Master's I don't think is as big of an issue). Our current thought is that we'd take turns commuting on weekends to visit each other. My only worry there is that grad school is obviously time- and work- intensive and that could easily get in the way of visitation plans.

This is true. Grad school is very time consuming and stressful. One good thing is that you'll both be in programs - you can bring reading/work with you when you visit and set aside time to get things done. At least you both know that the other understands how it can be. And someone in an earlier post did say that weekend visits made the weekdays very productive for them since they didn't want to be bothered by work when with their SO. Just trying to see a bright side, since I totally understand your worries.

I am a little concerned though, that I'm too comfortable with the theoretical idea of being apart, and that actually executing it would be a surprise burden even after I thought I'd made peace with it.

This is exactly how I felt a year ago. I was surprisingly calm and collected and all "this is just the way it is and we'll be fine," but definitely nervous underneath about just how difficult the reality of it would be.

I don't want to lose my 'moving somewhere imperfect' card just yet.

Amen. And your point about liberal towns in conservative states is well-taken. This is why I didn't apply to certain programs one of my professors suggested (she said I needed to diversify geographically). Sorry, I'm sure Austin is a great city and I'd love to visit, but I'm not so keen on living in Texas for the next 5 years, much less asking my partner to try getting a job in a school setting in Texas, or adopting children, or finding gay-friendly doctors, or any other number of issues that may arise.....

[glasses]

Amen. And your point about liberal towns in conservative states is well-taken. This is why I didn't apply to certain programs one of my professors suggested (she said I needed to diversify geographically). Sorry, I'm sure Austin is a great city and I'd love to visit, but I'm not so keen on living in Texas for the next 5 years, much less asking my partner to try getting a job in a school setting in Texas, or adopting children, or finding gay-friendly doctors, or any other number of issues that may arise.....

God, I hear that. I have a friend right now who lives in a very liberal, university town--smack in the middle of a red-as-red-can-be state, and I've got to say, as a queer (and biracial) woman myself, I don't think I'd be able to handle that . . . even beyond the obvious uh-oh that arises when you leave the city/town, for me there's the whole issue of feeling a kind of kinship with a state as a whole. I know that might sound bizarre, but it would matter to me whether my state had a recent record of not liking me, policy-wise.

[yousername]

It seems like a lot of the people on this thread are going in for their PhD... I'm only headed for an MFA at the moment, and have been with my SO for 2 years. This is the best relationship I have ever been in, but I have a feeling that the eventual outcome of this process will be a breakup. He is very scattered at the moment, skipping between wildly different goals every day. Last week he wanted to move back home and devote himself to the family business and making music... Today he was looking into taking Film classes at a nearby school.

I really have no idea what he wants anymore, and it's frustrating. When I started applying to schools, he was planning to do the same and taking his GRE. 6 Months later-- He never applied, and seems to have mostly abandoned the idea. I don't want to say that we are "growing apart," but it seems like he has no planned course of action and that irks me. I committed to this big scary prospect of applying for graduate study in a competitive field, and now I'm very excited to get to going. I want him to be excited about what he's doing, but that can't happen until he figures out what he wants to do. And some of the things he claims to want are very unappealing to me. I don't want to drag him along to a new city he'll hate. I don't know what to do beyond asking what he wants- which frequently leads to being brushed off.

[burntcheezits]

I'm having a similar problem. My SO keeps going back and forth between saying he'll apply to transfer (undergrad) to the same school that I end up at, and saying he wants to stay where we are right now (and we just wouldn't be together). We've been together for a very long time, so I don't want to leave him, but I don't want him to be unhappy if he comes with me, either. I don't think he's ready to leave where we live now, but for me there is no other option if I want to go to grad school (there aren't any schools I'm even remotely interested in where we live presently), and I pretty much have to if I want a decent job in my field.

It's so incredibly frustrating, but the more I try to talk to him about it, the more frustrating it is because he won't make up his mind.

[yousername]

I'm having a similar problem. My SO keeps going back and forth between saying he'll apply to transfer (undergrad) to the same school that I end up at, and saying he wants to stay where we are right now (and we just wouldn't be together). We've been together for a very long time, so I don't want to leave him, but I don't want him to be unhappy if he comes with me, either. I don't think he's ready to leave where we live now, but for me there is no other option if I want to go to grad school (there aren't any schools I'm even remotely interested in where we live presently), and I pretty much have to if I want a decent job in my field.

It's so incredibly frustrating, but the more I try to talk to him about it, the more frustrating it is because he won't make up his mind.

Gahhhh It's a pretty awful predicament, right? I feel like an ass for wanting to cut and run. Worried I'll be walking around with this burden of knowing that at heart I'm a selfish person who chose my career over love if I do. That's why I want him to figure out what he's doing. This isn't all about me, it should be about him and his goals as well. But without knowing what those are, I'm stuck spinning in circles.

[TulipOHare]

I feel like an ass for wanting to cut and run. Worried I'll be walking around with this burden of knowing that at heart I'm a selfish person who chose my career over love if I do. That's why I want him to figure out what he's doing. This isn't all about me, it should be about him and his goals as well. But without knowing what those are, I'm stuck spinning in circles.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but...

1.) You just told us what you want to do. How mad at yourself will you be in 2 years for not doing it?

2.) Your SO doesn't seem to want to choose you over anything.

I am NOT AT ALL trying to say "you're an idiot for not dumping him" or "always pick career over SO." Just noticed a couple things and decided to point them out. Do correct me if I'm wrong on either of them.

[engguy]

I'll say it: dump him. Get on with your life. If and when he decides to get it together, tell him, "I'll be there for you."

[firefly85]

It seems like a lot of the people on this thread are going in for their PhD... I'm only headed for an MFA at the moment, and have been with my SO for 2 years. This is the best relationship I have ever been in, but I have a feeling that the eventual outcome of this process will be a breakup. He is very scattered at the moment, skipping between wildly different goals every day. Last week he wanted to move back home and devote himself to the family business and making music... Today he was looking into taking Film classes at a nearby school.

I really have no idea what he wants anymore, and it's frustrating. When I started applying to schools, he was planning to do the same and taking his GRE. 6 Months later-- He never applied, and seems to have mostly abandoned the idea. I don't want to say that we are "growing apart," but it seems like he has no planned course of action and that irks me. I committed to this big scary prospect of applying for graduate study in a competitive field, and now I'm very excited to get to going. I want him to be excited about what he's doing, but that can't happen until he figures out what he wants to do. And some of the things he claims to want are very unappealing to me. I don't want to drag him along to a new city he'll hate. I don't know what to do beyond asking what he wants- which frequently leads to being brushed off.

I so feel your pain. I'm going for my MA and I've been with my bf for 2.5 years. In that time he's had four different jobs because he can't seem to figure out what to do with himself. He's bouncing from career to career and idea to idea. He is continually coming up with new ideas for what his "dream" career is and then abandoning them when he finds a new one!Now he's at a job which in theory sounds perfect for him, but he hates it because his bosses are incompetent (to be fair from what I've heard they are) and he feels like he's not progressing there (even though it's been about 6 months). We also seem to have been growing apart and he thinks part of it is that we're both unsatisfied with our lives outside of the relationship. Well he is, I was, but since getting into grad school and having a plan I'm feeling a lot better! I'm into a school in the city we live in, which I'm not very fond of (city, I actually like the school) and one in another city which sounds much more interesting to me, where I have family and friends. He's said he would move after a while because he's trying to break the cycle of bouncing from job to job, but he doesn't really know what kind of job he'd get and I often wonder if he'll be satisfied with any job. I understand the whole not knowing what to do with your life thing since that's what I went through before applying to grad school, but he's also three years older than me and so has had a bit more time to figure it out. Sometimes I feel like this whole thing is just going to end up in a break up too, even though that's not what I want! We may have to go back to long-distance (we did it in the beginning) and maybe that will give him space to figure out his life, then we can formulate a joint plan. And I thought things would get easier once I got into grad school. It just seems to get more and more complicated!

[yousername]

Not trying to be a jerk here, but...

1.) You just told us what you want to do. How mad at yourself will you be in 2 years for not doing it?

2.) Your SO doesn't seem to want to choose you over anything.

I am NOT AT ALL trying to say "you're an idiot for not dumping him" or "always pick career over SO." Just noticed a couple things and decided to point them out. Do correct me if I'm wrong on either of them.

[TulipOHare]

Oh, it's totally clear that you're going to grad school, no worries about that. With the "You've already told us what you want to do," I was referring to:

wanting to cut and run.

[firefly85]

I'm getting stressed over this. It seems like my best option is a school in DC, pretty far from where my bf and I live now. He has said he would be willing to move, but he does want to stay at his job for a bit longer so it wouldn't be right away. So now we're faced with the prospect of doing long-distance...again (we did it when I was still in undergrad). Does anyone else here seemed to be faced with this, are you staying in the area, or is your SO planning to move with you? I don't really want to be separated again, but I like this school, it's given me the best funding package, and I do like the are more than where I'm living now. Is anyone else dealing with this?

[liszt85]

I'm getting stressed over this. It seems like my best option is a school in DC, pretty far from where my bf and I live now. He has said he would be willing to move, but he does want to stay at his job for a bit longer so it wouldn't be right away. So now we're faced with the prospect of doing long-distance...again (we did it when I was still in undergrad). Does anyone else here seemed to be faced with this, are you staying in the area, or is your SO planning to move with you? I don't really want to be separated again, but I like this school, it's given me the best funding package, and I do like the are more than where I'm living now. Is anyone else dealing with this?

I'm stuck with a difficult decision to make between Gatech and OSU. Gatech has offered very little funding and the health insurance that I'd have to pay for just is out of bounds for me and I'm responsible for certain other fees which cannot be waived too. The reason why I still want to go do this MS at Gatech is because it will let me keep my options open as I'm shifting fields and would be nice to give myself some time to decide if I really want to go on to do a PhD. Now we're getting married in June and my finances are not good enough to be able to support her if its Gatech I'll be attending which means we'll have to do one year separated by half the circumference of the earth and that too just a month after our wedding!

Though Gatech looks the best option possible for my future, I'm still very much considering the PhD offer from OSU as the funding is good enough for us to live a comfortable life in Columbus.

I'm going crazy trying to choose between Gatech's promise of future prospects and OSU's immediate comfort of a well funded PhD (job prospects back in my country with this particular PhD is close to 0)

[firefly85]

So my decision just got a bit harder. I have a partial scholarship and paid GA at American U and figured that would be my best option. However I was just offered a scholarship at Syracuse University (not as large as at AU). I'm not sure if its renewable yet (the AU one is with a GPA requirement) but there is also potential to get a GA at Syracuse too, but I'm not sure how much those pay (e-mailed them for an average figure, but haven't heard back yet). My boyfriend is of course excited that I may stay in Syracuse now, but I'm not sure that is what I want, money aside. I'd rather live in DC than in Syracuse, but now if the money ends up being nearly equal (again not sure if it actually will be yet) I'd feel guilty leaving because he's still here, even though I pretty much came to Syracuse for him when he decided he wanted to move home. Of course the schools are ranked almost evenly so that doesn't help me decide either. So I'm not sure how to decide, any ideas on how I can do that?

[engguy]

Well, obviously the first thing is to get all the facts and figures in front of you. Make a list that doesn't take into account the added weight of your SO and compare the two. Last year, I had a chance to stay closer to home, where my SO had a great job; my SO told me to make the decision as if it were mine alone, since it was ultimately my degree we were talking about, and we would make it work somehow.

We ended up moving across country, and it's been terribly difficult -- giving up a good job and local connections in this economy is certainly not ideal, especially if you don't have to. That doesn't mean I regret my decision -- it's just been, as I say, very hard, moreso at times when I think back on what could have been.

I think it's especially important that you try your best to make this decision without letting the fact of your SO make it for you -- you've moved once for this person, after all.

[firefly85]

Thanks engguy. I am trying to take my SO out of the equation, but that is very difficult. He's said that's what he wants me to do, but I guess I'm worried that if I don't make the choice he wants (most likely stay here) he'll be upset. Not necessarily true, just what I'm projecting onto the situation. As far as our situation he would probably stay at his job for a while if I went to DC so we'd be long distance, which we've done before and of course isn't much fun. Being me, I'm trying to make the decision that will make everyone around me happy (parents, SO etc), but I think they both want me to choose different things, so that only makes my indecisiveness worse because I feel like I'll be upsetting someone no matter what decision I make. I'm trying to make the decision based on what's best for me and what I want, but it's very hard for me to take everyone else's ideas and opinions out of the equation. I suppose I'll have to come up with some kind of pro and con list just to get it all out of my head and maybe on paper it will make more sense to me.

[TulipOHare]

I guess I'm worried that if I don't make the choice he wants (most likely stay here) he'll be upset.

So what if he is?

You admitted that the worry could all be in your head, but if it's not... then I don't see any reason to accommodate someone who says "do what you want to do, do what's best for you" and doesn't mean it. If he's made you afraid of what he'll do if you pick the "wrong" choice, then he doesn't care about you -- he cares about controlling you and owning you. If he cares about you, he'll be happy for you and determined to make it work no matter what you choose.