Lab structure (undergrads/techs/grads/post-docs) for success

[threedaysjane]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just curious if there is a necessary structure for a lab to run successfully, both in terms of general daily activities and for students to develop critical thinking and technical skills in a timely manner. Our lab is very small, consisting of pre-candidacy graduate students and undergraduates. I feel overwhelmed with the decisions and amount of work (not necessarily uncommon for a grad student, I guess), but I sincerely worry about the lack of support. I'm in a life science lab, and I can see the type of lab making a difference in needed personnel. Any thoughts in necessary personnel, or how to best succeed in the absence of senior personnel in the lab?

[Dal PhDer]

"Lack of support" means a lot of things...do you mean funding? Guidance? Social?

I work in a lab with UG (depends on the year), Masters, PhD, and Post-docs and then 2 employees. There's a total of 6 of us. We have very little to do with eachother's work, so all of our support (outside of minor office mishaps/computer problems) comes from our advisor.

However, depending on how the lab works, and who is involved in what, I think it's really great to have a Lab Coordinator that knows the students' projects/tasks/duties and can assess the employees work. Really, an advisor is waaaaay too busy to be the point of contact for a lab. I think a RC for the lab is the best way to handle things, and that way it can be taken to the advisor. Also, the most successful labs I have been in had monthly lab meetings- this is a great way to share work, problems, etc.

I don't know if that helps- perhaps so more details on your situation could help guide advice.

[Tall Chai Latte]

My lab is also very small, consisting of 2 PhD students (one will be graduating soon, and there's me) and 5 post-docs. We also have a lab manager who take cares of supply ordering. Our PI is oversees all research activity and have one-on-one meetings with us weekly. General lab stuff is taken care of by our lab manager. The rest of us focus on handling issues arise in our own research, we would go to the PI if the obstacles persist.

Most of the labs I've been in have post docs, and it's nice to have them around to help. One way is you can go directly to the PI and ask for help, he is your advisor and he's there to help you. The other way is trying to seek help and advice from senior personnel in another, say the lab you are collaborating with. It will be more difficult, but not impossible to see support.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Tall Chai Latte

[Eigen]

Our lab has had two postdocs (and an 18 month stint with none) in the time I've been here.

Most of the time, we take all of the "general" responsibilities, and divide them up. One person takes safety and inventory, another takes over ordering of general lab supplies, other (senior) members do the upkeep on each of the instrument facilities.

It works out pretty well most of the time, and while it can take focus away from "your" research, it means you come out a little broader and a little more able to manage a lab when you're done, which is likely to be the end goal someday.

Similarly, undergrads work "under" a specific grad student, so we get the experience of managing their projects early on.

I don't think any personel are "needed" beyond a PI and students (PhD, MS, undergrad), but what you're trying to do and how fast you can move is definitely effected by who you have to work with. When we're without a post-doc, we either go to our PI, or other grad students (in other groups) for help branching out into new areas/learning techniques. That, and read a lot of technique-type papers.

[juilletmercredi]

My lab has graduate students (two doctoral students - me and another woman from my cohort, both fourth years - and a few assorted grad students from other schools and the MPH program), two project coordinators who are full-time employees, and our advisor. We don't need a lot of equipment since we do field studies with humans - in fact, we don't even have physical space. The school of public health I attend has no undergrads and we are far from the undergrad campus, so even if we wanted undergrad RAs we would have a more difficult time getting them.

I am also part of a psychology lab that has a more traditional structure. We have a lab coordinator (who is amazing), and there are two postdocs that also take care of a lot of the leadership and mentoring. Then there are four doctoral students. I'm the most advanced grad student in my fourth year, (I'm pre-candidacy but not by a lot - I should be admitted to candidacy this summer) then there are two third years and a first-year. And then there are a lot of RAs. Some of the RAs are post-baccalaureate students in our certificate program, but most are junior/senior undergrads. This lab does run a lot more smoothly. We also have a physical space. I would say that this lab setup is a lot more ideal than my uptown lab, but my uptown lab allows me a lot more close work with my advisor. The psychology lab is more working closely with the postdocs, which is fine because they're great but…you know.

My uptown lab had biweekly lab meetings. My psychology lab has weekly meetings, which is far too often in my opinion.

I think the most essential person to have in a lab is a lab coordinator. In my two labs, our project/lab coordinator(s) are the ones who arrange all of the administrative things - room requisitions, equipment orders, access, listservs, meetings, everything. These are things that the grad students have neither the time nor the inclination to do properly. Having a postdoc or two is also nice, as I have learned from the difference between the two labs. The postdocs keep things running smoothly when the advisor is not there or doesn't have time to do so, and they are also great mentors because they are energetic and really excited about cutting edge stuff since they are new in the field. I hope to be that kind of postdoc wherever I go next.

[TakeruK]

I also agree that having a lab coordinator makes a huge difference! When I was an undergrad co-op research student at a medical physics (PET) lab, I only ever talked to my official advisor once every 2 weeks during group meetings. She was actually on sabbatical in Germany so it was through Skype and I only met her in person a handful of times!! My main advising was with the lab coordinator/manager who did her MSc with the same lab too. She knew about all the experiments that were going on and coordinated activities between the IT people, the neuroscientists and the physicists, set up meetings / job interviews, worked with ethics boards, and still found time to do her own research.

The main structure was 2 students, 2 IT people, 2 research scientists (one in neuroscience, one in physics), and 3 lab technicians that actually run the scanner and do experiments.

[SlickMcFavorite]

I am currently in a lab with no coordinator and I have taken on some aspects of that role. I can tell you that having a person dedicated to coordinating lab tasks, experiments, instruments and supplies in invaluable.

If the coordinator is good, they can recognize opportunities to make everyone's work easier. For instance, a lab coordinator might remember that a previous lab member had started an experiment very similar to one you're thinking of and be able to give you the person's protocols and/or unfinished work.