Economy's Impact of Admissions

[wackedoutpenguin]

How severe do you think the economy's impact is on Ph.D. admissions this year?

I saw someone post that Columbia Sociology said that this year instead of the taking the usual 20 students they were taking 14 because of their funding cut, and I've personally heard internal complaints from Harvard/Yale about the lack of funding this year that's preventing their various departments from taking as many students as they'd typically like.

I imagine it's on everyone's mind, but I haven't seen much discussions about it recently on the forum. Just how much of an impact do you think it really has this year?

[GirlattheHelm]

I think it has significant impact and is stressing very hard on the academic world. But it's not like we can do anything about it since the government isn't really offering us any money. It's pretty bad, I'd say, but that's what you get trying to bail out big corporations and screwing the rest of the country. And, everyone's trying to run towards school, I think, in order to find safe haven. I mean, the whole idea is that the US will protect students. Like somehow we'll be provided for if it all goes to hell...

Sigh. Hopefully this too shall pass. :|

[Jakrabite]

With zero admits till now, I'll admit this line of thinking is tempting but its still lame. Reductionism at its worst.

[DEClarke85]

In the rejection letter I got from University of Maryland's American Studies program, they said that the cuts in funding due to the economy forced them to only accept 7 students this year. They typically take 10 to 14 (I think).

[Tinyboss]

The department at my current institution is only admitting half the usual number this year. Sounds like it's bad all over.

[hornedfrogmeg]

Are there more applicants as well? I had heard that more people were looking into Grad school because of the economy to delay the job search, but does anyone know if there is an increase in applicants?

[feisty]

Are there more applicants as well? I had heard that more people were looking into Grad school because of the economy to delay the job search, but does anyone know if there is an increase in applicants?

I was wondering the same thing.

On one hand it makes sense: schools seem secure at least for the next few years, a lot of people are being put in the position to make extreme career moves, 5-7 years for a phd sounds like a good time to ride out the recession outside of the workforce, etc.

But it's remarkable to me that in a time of crisis so many people would be jumping into one of the most tumultuous and unreliable career paths a person can take (academia), especially in the case of humanities programs.

[milara]

The impact on positions available would depend entirely on the school's endowment and funding priorities. For instance, MIT's endowment has dropped 20-25%, yet they are freezing top-earning professors salaries so that lower level staff and faculty can receive their increases. And they state that they are getting MORE research funding this year than in previous years.

On the other hand, more families are approaching the financial aid department for assistance due to unforeseen familial hardship (job loss, etc.). This is only relevant to undergraduates, but of note for any graduate students applying elsewhere for financial aid.

http://web.mit.edu/hockfield/letters/letter02192009.html

Similar letters may exist for other institutions...

[anthcat]

What I have been hearing from friends who are working in universities is that there has been a quite significant spike in the number of applications, but that it doesn't really matter for those of us who knew before the recession began that this is what we wanted to do.

An ex who is a professor of religious studies says her department has gotten almost twice as many applications as usual, but that the excess applications are, to put it sweetly, total crap. People who are not really suited to grad school, or up on what it takes to get accepted, are throwing out applications just in case. So the vast majority of those extras will get rejected and not even be in competition with serious, prepared applicants. BUT that means it will take longer than usual to sort through everything.

It seems like some programs are cutting the number of students they accept, but more often I think they will admit the same number but cut financial aid (bad news for those of us who must have it to attend). I heard that some lower ranked programs whose schools had less invested are actually increasing the number of acceptances.

[rising_star]

My department is cutting in half the number of admits with funding for this year.

[Lizzle]

This is absolutely an issue this year. I have talked with multiple professors at various schools (both public and private), including my Master's program profs and my father, and the economy's impact on admissions/funding is very real. Multiple programs are accepting fewer students and, at some state schools, funding has shifted so that certain top programs are receiving significantly less than before. I was in touch with one program that has strongly encouraged students to reapply next year, as they intend (or hope) to be able to admit a more typically high number of applicants. Of course, it's a little late to do anything with the knowledge...Hindsight, eh? It's an unfortunate situation, but we just have to hope for the best and, if not admitted or funded, consider reapplying next year.

[Tinyboss]

So will we be known as the cohort who had it tough in the Doldrums of Aught Nine, or as the last cohort to have it easy in the Good Old Days?

[Lily2]

Unfortunately, it is an issue this year. My current department may not be able to admit *any* new students with funding (normally 5 new students are admitted with full funding each year). They are of course trying to figure out if grants will be renewed and shuffle money around internally (so things are taking longer than normal)- but state allocated funds this year were severely slashed. I also know through prospective advisors and current students that at least 2 of my potential schools are facing similar situations, and are admitting significantly fewer students with funding than normal (I of course managed to apply to schools in all of the worst hit states....). It sucks, but I guess that is the reality this year.... at least at some places...

[speckops]

I heard from the former chair of the Chem. department at MIT that MIT was particularly hard-hit financially and had simultaneously seen a rise in the number of applicants. My PI told me recently that MIT had at least one endowment worth ~ $2 billion that had been managed by Bernie Madoff. Ouch. So yeah, I think that the economy is definitely having an impact on the number of students that they admit.

[LadyL]

An ex who is a professor of religious studies says her department has gotten almost twice as many applications as usual, but that the excess applications are, to put it sweetly, total crap.

A coworker of mine used to review graduate applications and he said this is normally the case - that up to 50% of apps. are total crap, and that if there are a lot of last minute applicants, their apps. will likely be weak as well.

[DEClarke85]

A coworker of mine used to review graduate applications and he said this is normally the case - that up to 50% of apps. are total crap, and that if there are a lot of last minute applicants, their apps. will likely be weak as well.

That's a miserable way to look at applications. Some of us struggle to live paycheck to paycheck while a student and cannot afford to actually submit our applications until about two weeks (or less) before they are due. Hopefully, programs look at these "last minute" applications with the same eye as those who can submit earlier. I would hate to think that my applications were barely looked at because they were "last minute" and "crap."

[poiuyt]

That's a miserable way to look at applications. Some of us struggle to live paycheck to paycheck while a student and cannot afford to actually submit our applications until about two weeks (or less) before they are due. Hopefully, programs look at these "last minute" applications with the same eye as those who can submit earlier. I would hate to think that my applications were barely looked at because they were "last minute" and "crap."

I'm pretty sure that by "last minute" they are not referring to applications submitted on the due date (at 11:45pm) but to applicants who weren't even planning to apply until a week before the deadline. Their SOP, PHS and probably LOR's look rushed, have not gone through the appropriate amount of editing and rewriting and are thus referred to as "crap". Most of my apps were turned in last minute but that's because I spent every waking moment making sure they were perfect before submitting them.

[DEClarke85]

Thank you poiuyt! I got a little worried. I guess it's the whole paranoia of acceptance/rejection thing. I spent a lot of time on my SOP and WS too. Good luck with you admissions!

[owata]

I can speak from my own experience this year with Cornell. I've essentially been waitlisted, but it's a kind of economic waitlisting - the department doesn't make offers without financial support, and because of the economy, the support that I would've been offered just isn't there... and so, no offer. They'll let me know if the money appears (which, I assume, might happen if enough people opt out of their Cornell acceptances), but I'm not very optimistic.

[lycoris]

I work at a top-tier private university, and I can tell you that while we were expecting to receive a whole lot of extra applications this year, it's been essentially flat in most departments, even down in some. The one department that DID see a spike was English, which went up about 15% (to my great chagrin, as that is my field - and although I did not apply to the school where I work, I did apply to a large number of peer institutions). Interestingly, the department reports that the application pool was even more competitive than usual last year - it's hard to say whether the extra "recession" applicants are actually good candidates for graduate study who in other years might have preferred more lucrative jobs in marketing (or who, in other years, would have been more turned off by the poor job prospects of the academic arena than the for-profit world), etc., or whether this year's pool would have been better anyway. The number of spots available is a whole other story. Humanities programs all had to cut their admitted students by about 35%, and some departments chose to make even steeper cuts in exchange for being permitted to go forward with hiring a new professor (or some similar move).

I don't know how the sciences, social sciences, and professional programs compare, but it's in this last category - law school, business school, and master's programs in practical things like social work or public policy - that I would expect to see the dramatic increase in applicants hoping to wait out the recession. In those programs, funding is less the norm, and some universities may actually be increasing the number of admits to these types of programs this year to boost their tuition revenue.

[LadyL]

Sorry for forgetting to follow up on this thread - yes, I absolutely meant people who decided to apply last minute and have applications that reflect that. Like everyone else I polished my applications down to the last few hours, no offense meant .

[sleepingkitty]

This is an example of

I had this gut renching feeling that something was wrong with my application.

I called UCLA (in which my GRE scores got to them later than expected) their responce was: in this program we make our decisions early and this time around we are cutting our interview amount and scheduling fewer. The reason; the economy

I then called USC-MIMG (microbiology/immunology/genetics): I explained to them I hadn't heard back from them in a while and was getting extremely nervous. The lady on the phone who was compassionate and understanding informed me that MIMG was not accepting any students due to funding. She then informed me that, that the department had forwarded every application to the PIBBS programs (which I applied to as well). She informed me that lack of funding is happening to many departments and in many schools. I then inquired about starting a masters program, then when the funding is available applying for their PhD, but what if this situation persists. I'll end up in a pile of loans from a wonderful private institution. Agh!

So, then, the only good news is news with the PIBBS, which I called. They only meet once a week. My application has finally been reviewed. No verdict, but they need to go through more applicants before they can make a decision. Their program recieved the same number of apps as usual + the combination of forwarded apps from other departments. I hope the same number of seat are available. If not, my chances of getting in are dwindling. Thank GOD I have a job and am getting great industrial experience from a successful startup company. If I stay with an industrial compnay I may grow and get opportunities in biotech, which is good. BUT, my hearts desire is to be a research scientist. I want to have a lab and be PI and, and, and. And, we'll see. Hopefully, the planing and preparation in undergrad and out will make me a good enough and competative enough applicant for their program.